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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Alratan said:
We've just traded runelore literally this very turn with people that we have a lower standing with
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We currently don't know what our standing with Valma is. Don't talk out of your ass.
UlseDovThur said:
A thought occurs. Don't know if someone else has brought this up but when we have Snorri design the armor for the KotS we should ask Dolgi for advise. As it stands there is little doubt that he is the premier expert when it comes to designing armor for griffins.
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Nah, even if you're correct and his work is worth more than 4 centuries of general experience, it would be interfering with his journey unless we waited for him to become a master.
 
TempestK said:
So, aside from us butterflying away the Chaos Dwarves, does anyone know what else we may have changed for the future?

Also, I kind of want to see if we can start doing "defense in detail" throughout our section of the Underway.
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Well, for one we have the underway connecting back south. That wasn't a thing in the canon timeline so the southern holds really shouldn't lose contact with the northern holds after the continent reshaping.

Our closest Hold in the south is Ungor I think it was? Which did fall in canon, they had greenskins pop up in their mining shafts and attacking from the underway. If Ungor can get a message North or South before they fall completely we should be able to reinforce them from the underway and attack the greenskins from behind.

Another butterfly about the underway is that Grimnir told the dwarves to defend the damn thing unlike canon. He was attacked by a magma dragon that had busted down into the underway in front of him, so he taught some tunnel fighting and advised to create defences underground which didn't happen until the continent shift damaging the underway and letting in the skaven in canon.

So really, the underway north is the other big thing we've got.
 
Captain Spatula said:
Well, for one we have the underway connecting back south. That wasn't a thing in the canon timeline so the southern holds really shouldn't lose contact with the northern holds after the continent reshaping.

Our closest Hold in the south is Ungor I think it was? Which did fall in canon, they had greenskins pop up in their mining shafts and attacking from the underway. If Ungor can get a message North or South before they fall completely we should be able to reinforce them from the underway and attack the greenskins from behind.

Another butterfly about the underway is that Grimnir told the dwarves to defend the damn thing unlike canon. He was attacked by a magma dragon that had busted down into the underway in front of him, so he taught some tunnel fighting and advised to create defences underground which didn't happen until the continent shift damaging the underway and letting in the skaven in canon.

So really, the underway north is the other big thing we've got.
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And then on a more regional level there's the stuff like the Northern Reclamation campaigns that are going to happen.
 
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The Time of Woes is definitely gonna f up our stuff though, no matter how well built up.

An earthquake is about a million times scarier underground than above it, and the entire continent shifting is a little bigger than one of those.

Honestly the biggest change by far, at least outside of the whole no, hopefully, Dawi Zarr, the south is way better defended from Chaos incursions from the Chaos Wastes now.

... Not really gonna do much to stop the Fimir empire or the Brayherds but you can't win 'em all I guess.
 
Having the alliance with the KotS is also a major shift, because we have allies that may be able to act as couriers, or even carry important messengers and people if the need is great enough. Having them all able to talk also means that they're very much not going to be mistaken for dumb beasts by the Elves or Humans when we encounter them.
 
UwU said:
The Time of Woes is definitely gonna f up our stuff though, no matter how well built up.

An earthquake is about a million times scarier underground than above it, and the entire continent shifting is a little bigger than one of those.

Honestly the biggest change by far, at least outside of the whole no, hopefully, Dawi Zarr, the south is way better defended from Chaos incursions from the Chaos Wastes now.

... Not really gonna do much to stop the Fimir empire or the Brayherds but you can't win 'em all I guess.
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We' re not in the world's edge mountains, so we might not be hit as hard (hopefully)
 
TempestK said:
Having the alliance with the KotS is also a major shift, because we have allies that may be able to act as couriers, or even carry important messengers and people if the need is great enough. Having them all able to talk also means that they're very much not going to be mistaken for dumb beasts by the Elves or Humans when we encounter them.
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Yeah, another regional benefit. Its a reasonable expectation that anywhere there lies a Griffon Aerie is probably going to have a lower monster population around it because of their eating habits.

The King of the Skies and the rest of his people are not really going to affect the Southern Holds too much, beyond them holding his heart, and their presence making the North stronger and so more able to help the South if necessary.


IronFist said:
We' re not in the world's edge mountains, so we might not be hit as hard (hopefully)
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Yeah. We personally might not feel it as badly, but we are still geologically connected by Troll Country and its going to utterly screw our Underway connection to everyone else. If there's an upsurge in Chaotic activity and Orks and other folks, we're probably going to get cut off.

E: For how long? No way to tell. We'd try to fix it, but how much effort we can put towards that is also not something we have a way to tell if it's going to be possible.
 
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BungieONI said:
Yeah, another regional benefit. Its a reasonable expectation that anywhere there lies a Griffon Aerie is probably going to have a lower monster population around it because of their eating habits.

The King of the Skies and the rest of his people are not really going to affect the Southern Holds too much, beyond them holding his heart, and their presence making the North stronger and so more able to help the South if necessary.

Yeah. We personally might not feel it as badly, but we are still geologically connected and its going to utterly screw our Underway connection to everyone else. If there's an upsurge in Chaotic activity and Orks and other folks, we're probably going to get cut off.
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With a couple of thousand years for their populations to expand, they may well settle the tops of dwarven Karaks across the World's Edge and Mountains of Mourne. THere are plenty of monsters and monstrous beasts for them to eat in both places. They potentially have a lot of time.

THat would then help us remain in contact. We might also learn how to make airships and similar if they're invented in this timeline.
 
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Thankfully we are still centuries away from the Times of Woe so who knows what else we will change before then!
 
Alratan said:
With a couple of thousand years for their populations to expand, they may well settle the tops of dwarven Karaks across the World's Edge and Mountains of Mourne. THere are plenty of monsters and monstrous beasts for them to eat in both places. They potentially have a lot of time.
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Maybe. Won't hold my breath for it though.

ConfusedCanuck said:
Thankfully we are still centuries away from the Times of Woe so who knows what else we will change before then!
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Good couple thousand so yeah, option's open. It's basically the endgame for this quest so, plenty of time to do stuff.
 
Alratan said:
What do you see that's stopping them? They'd have ample both food and friendly protected nesting sites. THe dwarves significantly expanded their numbers and built many new settlements in this era. Why wouldn't our allied griffins?
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Scale of the proposal largely and we have no idea how fast they actually reproduce that I can recall. But mainly, that it's a big ask and with big asks stuff can get in the way so I'm not going to expect it to happen.
 
BungieONI said:
Scale of the proposal largely and we have no idea how fast they actually reproduce that I can recall. But mainly, that it's a big ask and with big asks stuff can get in the way so I'm not going to expect it to happen.
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Why's it a big ask for a population to increase its numbers and spread out over time during a time of peace when they have plenty of food and safe living space? It seems like a completely automatic thing that just happens to successful species. We know that they reproduce faster than dwarves:

soulcake said:
- The jubilation of victory bears fruit. Young beard and plaitlings, barely out of their first decade, can be seen leaving the safety of the clan home and into the wider hold for the first time. Under heavy watch and guard of course, and definitely not outside! The same can be said for the Griffons of Drongkaraz, whose numbers replenish a bit faster than your folk do, but nowhere near fast enough to recoup losing two-thirds of their total number.
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And dwarven settlements apparently significantly increased over this period.
 
Alratan said:
Why's it a big ask for a population to increase its numbers and spread out over time during a time of peace when they have plenty of food and safe living space? It seems like a completely automatic thing that just happens to successful species. We know that they reproduce faster than dwarves:
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Because it fundamentally isn't a thing of "And then they spread"? There's steps there, many steps, where populations migrate to each dwarf hold, fight off monsters, consume and otherwise have to deal with things. A species that is successful having growing numbers is normal and expected. One spreading across most of the entire known world, even in several thousand years, is less certain.

Because at every step of the way, they can face setbacks like: Sky Titans, Dwarf King's not liking them, monsters they can't kill and who drive them away or injure populations, war with Beastmen, and also simple natural disasters and other things that I probably haven't thought of. They're not so superior to everything that their expansion is reasonable to consider unchecked, even with Dwarf help.

Could they? Possibly. But that's as far as I'm willing to consider the matter because looking at it I just don't see a certainty.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Not a single one of these beardlings can meaningfully teach Snorri the Earth Mover how to quickly build Gronti.
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That just comes across as pretty arrogant. Snorri may be more skilled and experienced in a number of areas there are some Dwarfs who are younger than him that are likely still better than him in areas they specialize in. It's outright noted that Valma is hundreds of years ahead of Dwarfs her age when it comes to making Gronti. Just because we have a title doesn't change the fact that we may just be outdone by people who actually specialize in certain areas.
 
Another thing, with the South having proof that the Northern holds weren't lost Norsca might get some waystones. Going from memory I don't think the North got any of the waystone network that popped up during the Elf and Dwarf collaboration that kind of smoothed out the winds.

So that might also be a long term benefit down the line. The entirety of the North being less of a magical mosh pit.
 
Also It wouldn't fit in with the rest of warhammer if the Griffons alone had a unending thousands years of expansion. They will undoubtedly suffer some catastrophe some point.
 
Ferdiad said:
Also It wouldn't fit in with the rest of warhammer if the Griffons alone had a unending thousands years of expansion. They will undoubtedly suffer some catastrophe some point.
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They have 2 princes. Sometime the King is gonna die and then there's gonna be a civil war that will decimate their population as the princes fight over who becomes King.
 
UwU said:
The Time of Woes is definitely gonna f up our stuff though, no matter how well built up.

An earthquake is about a million times scarier underground than above it, and the entire continent shifting is a little bigger than one of those.

Honestly the biggest change by far, at least outside of the whole no, hopefully, Dawi Zarr, the south is way better defended from Chaos incursions from the Chaos Wastes now.

... Not really gonna do much to stop the Fimir empire or the Brayherds but you can't win 'em all I guess.
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It's worth noting that unlike in canon, the Karaz Ankor got a big wakeup call about the threat posed of a compromised Underway, thanks to the experiences of Krakka Drak. Now every Dwarf hold connected to the Underway knows that there is a very real possibility of enemies flooding forth from the Underway, and that needs to be defended against and heavily fortified.

Whereas in canon, Krakka Drak was never connected to the Underway, and none of the holds connected to the Underway fell to Chaos (and thus served as an opening for Chaos to flood through to the other Karaks), thus, they all thought of the Underway as completely secure and felt no need to defend against it. Thus, when enemies did flood through it, they were not only completely unprepared to hold their entrances to the Underway, they were completely unprepared for fighting against enemies that were already inside of the hold rather than a besieging force that has to come from the surface.

And if we can avert the War of Vengeance, then the Time of Woe's real danger--that the enemy would flood forth from the Underway while the armies of the Karaz Ankor were far away--would be averted.

Moreover, the knowledge that the Underway can be compromised and serve as a massive vector for a flood of enemies has spread while the Ancestors are still here. Which means they may be inclined to stick around long enough to do something about that first.
 
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