RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

BeepSmile said:
Also, artisanal time for the creation each prosthetic, and the vast, vast majority are not going to be that 99% level. How many dwarves have no replacment limbs at all due to limited producers? How many bleed out on the battlefield that would live if they just had something to clot the blood a bit and buy time?

That said, I was thinking of physical regeneration alone while you are thinking of regeneration + panacea abilities, though weather we can make something that can do one thing, but not both is entirely in the hands of the QM.

It's a thought that occurred to me when i was cooking up the Idea in my head. Presumably there are other runes of healing than outright regeneration. We could try to develop a new Rune based on whatever Regeneration rune we already know and the Rune of Valaya, and then use the heart to boost the power of the rune to greater levels.

Take a Pilgrimage to Valaya's healing vents, stay there a while, pray, and return there a new Dwarf.

No illness, No Disease, No Scars and No Missing Limbs. Only Wrinkles

I wanted to propose something like this for Elder Moira's hall... but then Valaya's healing vents got discovered and it's got so much potential.

I think this is my favorite option

. We'd need to research the water's properties to see if it's feasible.

BeepSmile · May 19, 2020

Lost Star said:
No I mean use the heart and runes to make it legendary. There are a lotta things devoted to warriors and such. There's very few things devoted to healing them up and keeping them at peak performance. It's an afterthought. I feel it's a bit of a shame.

Also considering what pulling a Snori is, we could probably use something to keep us up and running.

I think it would be much, much more useful to make the "waters of the spring" something that can taken away and used elsewhere, like a potion, so that the spring is the source of the healing water, but the healing effect is not limited to a dwarf being at the spring itself, assuming this is possible at all; so that people do not have to travel to the hold to get healing if there are stores in their local hold, and so that it can also be used on a battlefield.

But otherwise, assuming we can do this, I am very excited for this idea.

Will also help stop us from being imprisoned in the Temple of Valeria by Moria when we get the shit beaten out of us, or at least imprisoned for a shorter amount of time

Ferdiad said:
Dwarfs aren't human, they can heal from near anything with some rest and beer.

Can't heal from missing limbs, can still bleed out on the battlefield, prosthetics are limited in quality and quantity, and take expert time and resources to make, time that can be spent on other things.

This would be a one-time investment that can help many many people who would not have access to limbs, or might bleed out on the battlefield.

IronFist said:
It's a thought that occurred to me when i was cooking up the Idea in my head. Presumably there are other runes of healing than outright regeneration. We could try to develop a new Rune based on whatever Regeneration rune we already know and the Rune of Valaya, and then use the heart to boost the power of the rune to greater levels.

Take a Pilgrimage to Valaya's healing vents, stay there a while, pray, and return there a new Dwarf.

No illness, No Disease, No Scars and No Missing Limbs. Only Wrinkles

I wanted to propose something like this for Elder Moira's hall... but then Valaya's healing vents got discovered and it's got so much potential.

I think this is my favorite option . We'd need to research the water's properties to see if it's feasible.

I get the appeal of the pilgrimage idea, truly, it's some fantastic imagery for storytelling; but the utility of having something that can be bottled and transported elsewhere is just so much greater that I would prefer something that can enhance the spring waters than having something tied to a location.

Lost Star · May 19, 2020

It would even encourage tourism or pilgrimage. Plus I just kinda like doing something for the healing people.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

Also, If it works and we get around to doing it before the Ancestors depart, I could see Valaya getting a roll to see if She Notices, like Thugni got with Snerra.

BeepSmile said:
I get the appeal of the pilgrimage idea, truly, it's some fantastic imagery for storytelling; but the utility of having something that can be bottled and transported elsewhere is just so much greater that I would prefer something that can enhance the spring waters than having something tied to a location.

It's more practical, but i think the Spring is more likely to appeal to the thread.

BeepSmile · May 19, 2020

IronFist said:
Also, If it works and we get around to doing it before the Ancestors depart, I could see Valaya getting a roll to see if She Notices, like Thugni got with Snerra.

It's more practical, but i think the Spring is more likely to appeal to the thread.

I think we should frame it in terms of why it is more practical then; in that it can helps save more lives if it is a transportable liquid that can literally stop someone bleeding out on the battlefield rather than a magical location one must visit, also, it's easier to get one's hands on a potion in your area than going to some distant hold in the north, assuming that the limit of "amount of healing" that can be done/created per day is equivalent.

Can also (presumably) build up a stockpile of potions. Give them to rangers who are going solo, have them on hand for big disasters where dwarves don't have time to go to a distant hold

Zaratustra · May 19, 2020

The problem with making something to empower the healing springs is that we gave away the right to do so last turn vote.

Dark as Silver · May 19, 2020

Its also unclear if we can rune a rock formation in order to give water drawn from it magical healing properties.
There are a lot of unknowns in this plan.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

BeepSmile said:
I think we should frame it in terms of why it is more practical then; in that it can helps save more lives if it is a transportable liquid that can literally stop someone bleeding out on the battlefield rather than a magical location one must visit, also, it's easier to get one's hands on a potion in your area than going to some distant hold in the north, assuming that the limit of "amount of healing" that can be done/created per day is equivalent.

Can also (presumably) build up a stockpile of potions. Give them to rangers who are going solo, have them on hand for big disasters where dwarves don't have time to go to a distant hold

First we'd need to figure out how it works. Does the spring change normal water? Or is the "water" not water at all?

Zaratustra said:
The problem with making something to empower the healing springs is that we gave away the right to do so last turn vote.

And you think that if we said "oh, that healing spring i donated? I THINK I CAN MAKE IT WORK BETTER. WITH RUNES!" they're going to say "No, now go away"?

They're probably going to consecrate it to Valaya like a temple, in which case they will need a Runesmith to strike the runes. We'd likely get first refusal to do that.

We just donated our ownership of the location to them and don't get a direct say at what is done at the location. But a healing spring will likely remain a healing spring.

BeepSmile · May 19, 2020

Zaratustra said:
The problem with making something to empower the healing springs is that we gave away the right to do so last turn vote.

As IronFist says... what makes you think that they will say "no" when we ask permission? One does not need to own something to make it better if the owner also things that it is a good idea, and if this is viable... then it is a very good idea.

Edit:

Dark as Silver said:
Its also unclear if we can rune a rock formation in order to give water drawn from it magical healing properties.
There are a lot of unknowns in this plan.

The water has healing properties now, so I was thinking like a runed bowl [1]or something that can have water be diverted into, and then taken out of, having been enhanced with [regeneration causing qualities] so that it can be stored in bottles to be taken away and used later, not runing the rock formation itself, which is something that did not occur to me.

There are many many unknowns in this plan, yes. You can put up fifty hypotheticals as to why it might not work, yes. I say the utility of it is such that worth investigating - so in a fictional universe where the MC has perspectives and skills on things that do not exist in our reality, this idea falls into category of "the players can't know if such can or can not be done." It's not like I'm suggesting something that is against the stated laws of runesmiting, in which case it would be correct to point out the impossibilities.

[1] from an engineering standpoint, I'm actually thinking a runed pipe that (some of?) the healing water flows through to be enhanced by the time it comes out the far end, actually, so we have a steady output of [enhanced regeneration liquid] but that does not lend itself to the imagery that people will find appealing

Basically, less a full blown plan, and more "an idea for something that would be very cool, that I feel is worth exploring the viability of"

Zaratustra · May 19, 2020

BeepSmile said:
As IronFist says... what makes you think that they will say "no" when we ask permission? One does not need to own something to make it better if the owner also things that it is a good idea, and if this is viable... then it is a very good idea.

Mostly a combination of how we would like need some experimentation combined to how if we could just go and do what we want it would run counter the spirit of the vote.
I expect we won't be able to add anything the same way we couldn't armor our King before he requested armor, if we didn't give up the right to decide what to add to the spring and when to it what did we even give up on that vote ?

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

Zaratustra said:
Mostly a combination of how we would like need some experimentation combined to how if we could just go and do what we want it would run counter the spirit of the vote.
I expect we won't be able to add anything the same way we couldn't armor our King before he requested armor, if we didn't give up the right to decide what to add to the spring and when to it what did we even give up on that vote ?

I think that's a different Kettle of fish.

The king already had rune armor. When Snorri saw it he said it was "OK work", I.e. it was pretty damn good. There's was no point in offering. We could have said "You need a rune armor worthy of a King" and done it anyway. But it's not the way Runesmiths work.

On the other hand, the site we donated is a ruined spring. They will be working on doing something with it. Offering our help and input is not out of question.

We gave it away to the Cult of Valaya because we didn't want to let it sit for centuries before we got to it. We can't make money off it either, as we've donated it.

No one in their right mind refuses when a Runelord offers to put runes on something for you.

BeepSmile · May 19, 2020

Zaratustra said:
Mostly a combination of how we would like need some experimentation combined to how if we could just go and do what we want it would run counter the spirit of the vote.
I expect we won't be able to add anything the same way we couldn't armor our King before he requested armor, if we didn't give up the right to decide what to add to the spring and when to it what did we even give up on that vote ?

We gave up the ability to do what we want at the spring without asking first, we give up ownership of the water it produces, and any advantages said ownership might have brought us. We need to ask if we can do this, I doubt they will say no but, we still have to ask permission. It does not run counter to the spirit of anything to ask to try to make something that will help save lives.

"couldn't armor our King before he requested armor " I was unaware this was thing tbh.

That aside, there is a meaningful difference between asking "do you want some armour, king" and "I would like to try and make a thing that will boost (some of) your healing water to an absurd degree" armor is known, and people know to ask for it, this is experimental and the idea would have to come from Snorri.

Riggnarock · May 19, 2020

Would there be any benefit to using the heart to enrune a war drum instead of a banner?

Dark as Silver · May 19, 2020

Wasn't the point of donating it that we only had to do the bare minimum? Did the argument of how cool we could make it not get raised earlier?

Zaratustra · May 19, 2020

Dark as Silver said:
Wasn't the point of donating it that we only had to do the bare minimum? Did the argument of how cool we could make it not get raised earlier?

The point of donating was so we didn't need to do anything, is was the option were we spend zero actions and most wash our hands off the thing.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

Dark as Silver said:
Wasn't the point of donating it that we only had to do the bare minimum? Did the argument of how cool we could make it not get raised earlier?

Not with the Greedy heart as far as i know. Though I get annoyed by people arguing in circles and skipped a bunch of pages. Maybe we should just ask Soulcake if we'd be allowed to do anything with the Springs, before we get into another discussion.
I would hate putting the energy trying to convince people to give my idea a chance, when the idea is impossible for other reasons.

I don't think we'll be refused: we donated "raw materials" to the Cult of Valaya, and this would be effectively donating our Labor.
Unless the Valayans want to do something with the healing spring that is not helped by boosting the springs power.
Hopefully they don't decide to bottle it and use it for brewing Beer.

It's unlikely, but possible

Eronalu · May 19, 2020

If they ask for help with the spring, i am all in for helping, but we discarded the option of using our time in them, to go and ask, just after giving the ownership, to change the spring with our experiment, is something i don´t see any dawi, no matter how odd, doing, it feels almost like going back in our word.

If after say, 50 years, we don´t see an improvement in them, i can see Snorri going out of his way to ask, wanting to help, but not for now.

Dark as Silver · May 19, 2020

One thing worth pointing out is that they actually might refuse our plan.
Dwarven honour to repay debts after all, I think that the amount they'd owe us for investing a T5 reagent and all the runework that goes along with that would be incredibly difficult to repay for an isolated hot spring in the north with all of its associated gribblies.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

Dark as Silver said:
One thing worth pointing out is that they actually might refuse our plan.
Dwarven honour to repay debts after all, I think that the amount they'd owe us for investing a T5 reagent and all the runework that goes along with that would be incredibly difficult to repay for an isolated hot spring in the north with all of its associated gribblies.

If it's as successful as i'm hoping it would be, a fortified settlement would inevitably form around it. For example, Amsterdam became so big because it was a very popular pilgrimage site. It was originally a tiny fishing village in a swamp. Remoteness doesn't matter to pilgrims... especially if the miracle that happens there is repeatable.
Sure, there wouldn't be merchant houses trying to take advantage of the port to bring in the wealth, but I can see wealthy dwarf clans who've had members restored making pretty hefty donations in thanks.

Lost Star · May 19, 2020

I mean does tribute to the ancestors need to be repaid? Improving the springs would be something akin to a religious donation. I'm not sure repayment would be relevant. At least on mortal dwarf side.

Dark as Silver · May 19, 2020

IronFist said:
If it's as successful as i'm hoping it would be, a fortified settlement would inevitably form around it. For example, Amsterdam became so big because it was a very popular pilgrimage site. It was originally a tiny fishing village in a swamp. Remoteness doesn't matter to pilgrims... especially if the miracle that happens there is repeatable.
Sure, there wouldn't be merchant houses trying to take advantage of the port to bring in the wealth, but I can see wealthy dwarf clans who've had members restored making pretty hefty donations in thanks.

Oh sure. In a couple centuries, these are dwarves so maybe the better part of a millenia, that will happen. Still a lot of investment for a middle of nowhere settlement when Karakka Drak was looked down on as not a proper Karak until they whethered Kholek.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

Dark as Silver said:
Oh sure. In a couple centuries, these are dwarves so maybe the better part of a millenia, that will happen. Still a lot of investment for a middle of nowhere settlement when Krakka Drak was looked down on as not a proper Karak until they whethered Kholek.

What's a couple of centuries. The Dwarf golden age is coming

DragonParadox · May 19, 2020

Lost Star said:
I mean does tribute to the ancestors need to be repaid? Improving the springs would be something akin to a religious donation. I'm not sure repayment would be relevant. At least on mortal dwarf side.

I'm pretty sure dwarfish cults also function as institutions with ledgers that need to be balanced. Keep in mind they bought the springs off us (for all the gold is beneath the level of abstraction), we did not just give it to us.

Raeyx · May 19, 2020

So I recently decided to try my hand at theorycrafting some runesets for KotS and his sons and this is what I have so far:

Kingly armor:

MS of Blizzards + Lightning + Preservation

Tanky armor:

MS of Unyielding + Fortitude + Preservation

Speedy armor:

MS of Tireless + Speed + Impact

I picked based on what they wanted and what I though was more likely to combo as well as make their wearers harder to kill since armor that doesn't protect you seemed counterintuitive, I'm not sure about some of them though. For instance: doens anyone know what the Rune of Fortitude actually does? Besides possibly make armor intelligent, I can't find any information on its specific effects anywhere.

Copperscale · May 19, 2020

DragonParadox said:
I'm pretty sure dwarfish cults also function as institutions with ledgers that need to be balanced. Keep in mind they bought the springs off us (for all the gold is beneath the level of abstraction), we did not just give it to us.

For reference:
[ ] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.. Any dwarf may offer a libation to the Ancestors as is their right. You could, therefore, offer the land to the Priesthood then potentially work for the Priesthood in the construction of whatever it is they'd like built here and in exchange they do almost all of the heavy lifting. In reality it's a much more complex process, given Dwarf property law is obviously very extensive, but that is neither here nor there! You'll lose the ability to do what you want with this place, but you doubt you'll ever lose access to getting some of the water whenever you want.

It was a donation, no exchange of gold involved. Unless they do something with the healing sprint that makes it "not a healing spring anymore" we can still potentially do this.