RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[Alratan]

We've been on the frontlines 3 of 4 times. Injured 2 of 3 times.
What Snorri should do is a dumb argument because whether he does or doesn't its not what he is doing.

As for being petty. Whas Ghal Maraz a petty warhammer? Just because its not as large as a Gronti doesn't make something now worthy of being a legend. This is a dumb fucking argument.

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Ghal Maraz was personally crafted by an Ancestor God and was the personal weapon of the High King of the Dwarves. It was used as the symbolic gift representing the treaty between Sigmar's Empire and the Karaz Ankor

If it was the armour for the High King, I wouldn't object to using the Heart for it. Snorri's personal equipment is petty in comparison. It's not just about how large it is, it's about how much its actually present and used to make life better for the dwarves of Kraka Drakk. I'd object less if it was used for something like making (power?) armour for something like a King's Champion of Krak Drakk, I still wouldn't think it was worth it, because of the nature of the Heart, but it would be less obviously inappropriate.

And we've been on the frontlines an exceptional amount because we've just survived the literal apocalypse. That situation has changed now.

Now, something like the T5 ingredient from Kholek might possibly be different, based on what it does, but the Greedy Heart's inexhaustible energy really doesn't fit a piece of equipment that should almost never be used, to my mind. I also think Snorri can probably manage with just using T4 ingredients.

 

[Eronalu]

I like the idea of crafting the armour for Snorri, but i think the other options for the Heart are better. @soulcake It´s possible to ask (with proper recompense) that our flying boys spare one heart of the lesser greedy trolls, and use that one for the armor?

It should still give some extra power over a normal troll heart and with the runes that we are learning, make a awesome armor that let Snorri tank most of the problems and survive almost anything.

 

[mmgaballah]

Ghal Maraz was personally crafted by an Ancestor God

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would you mind sourcing that please as this is the first I am hearing about it being crafted by an Ancestor God

 

[argenten]

From the Wiki "Created by the Ancestor God Smednir..."

 

[Dark as Silver]

Snorri's personal equipment is petty in comparison

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Ah yes. Snorri Hold Warder, Shadowkiller, the last Runelord of the North, no one important really. A petty person.
And we've been on the front lines when the Apocalypse happened. Also when there was a concerted effort in order to civilise the north. Also that time when there was a mean troll killing children. You can't just ignore all the times Snorri went to war to justify saying that this armour will never get used.
We have no reason to think that "Power Armour" would possible let alone better, given that at least one of its rune slots will be taken up by a Rune of Waking meaning the combo is smaller or we'd need a hell of a collaboration with a whole bunch of engineers.

Can you just acknowledge that you don't like the aesthetic so that we can agree to disagree and move on?

 

[Alratan]

would you mind sourcing that please as this is the first I am hearing about it being crafted by an Ancestor God

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I think the religion section in Stone and Steel says it was made by Smednir.

Edit: By Smednir and Thungni working together.

 

[argenten]

Doesn't the main heart regenerate? Why can't we use enough for the armor and let it go back to full size again?

 

[Copperscale]

And we've been on the frontlines an exceptional because we've just survived the literal apocalypse. That situation has changed now.

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Snorri is not going to stay out of the hold's major engagements though. It would be Shameful

I do think we need to replace our armor with something better, we've had two close shaves (figuratively ^_^) and we can definitely make something better. Adamant armor with the Rune of Unyielding would do it for me.

Using Grimnir's calculus, the Gronti is a better choice, but I won't hold it against the player base to put the Heart in our new armor.

Doesn't the main heart regenerate? Why can't we use enough for the armor and let it go back to full size again?

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That is CHEESE, and soulcake already said it won't fly. You're not the first one to think of that

 

[Alratan]

Ah yes. Snorri Hold Warder, Shadowkiller, the last Runelord of the North, no one important really. A petty person.
And we've been on the front lines when the Apocalypse happened. Also when there was a concerted effort in order to civilise the north. Also that time when there was a mean troll killing children. You can't just ignore all the times Snorri went to war to justify saying that this armour will never get used.
We have no reason to think that "Power Armour" would possible let alone better, given that at least one of its rune slots will be taken up by a Rune of Waking meaning the combo is smaller or we'd need a hell of a collaboration with a whole bunch of engineers.

Can you just acknowledge that you don't like the aesthetic so that we can agree to disagree and move on?

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If we were using it to make Snorri's smelter, or his forge, or his hammer, or his smelter, then it would quite possibly be appropriate. He's not focused on being a warrior though. Any armour he makes is for use on a tertiary occupation, and I don't think we should be crafting mythic artifacts to be used for our side side job.

I aree we'll just have to disagree on this.

Snorri is not going to stay out of the hold's major engagements though. It would be Shameful

But I do think we need to replace our armor with something better, we've had two close shaves (figuratively ^_^) and we can definitely make something better. Adamant armor with the Rune of Unyielding would do it for me.

Using Grimnir's calculus, the Gronti is a better choice, but I won't hold it against the player base to put the Heart in our new armor.

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Snorri stayed in his workshop for the first half of the siege when it was in existential danger from the Chaos Incursion. I'd support making T4 adamant armour, but the Heart has so much potential to do great things that open up narrative possibilities. We shouldn't expend something that's themed around unending limitless energy on an item that gets taken out of storage for a few months every century or so if it's lucky, rather than something that's out there doing good all the time.

 

[argenten]

That is CHEESE, and soulcake already said it won't fly. You're not the first one to think of that

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Fair nough, i just wasnt sure if itd need the whole thing or not and that's why we couldnt do it.

I just...upgrading our armor seems like a reasonable thing to me, at least in terms of taking advantage of the stuff we got...we can alaays make more when we get better stuff anyways.

Whats the big deal?

 

[Dark as Silver]

If we were using it to make Snorri's forge, or his hammer, or his smelter, then it would possibly be appropriate. He's not focused on being a warrior though. Any armour he makes is for use on a tertiary occupation, and I don't think we should be crafting mythic artifacts to be used for someone's side job.

...

Snorri stayed in his workshop for the first half of the siege when it was in existential danger from the Chaos Incursion.

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But Runelords don't use their warhammers for forging and stuff?
I assume at least.
One of the char creation options mentioned that our master broke their hammer every 20 runes.
If we want to talk about a waste of T5 ingredient...

And

No. Snorri was in his workshop for the first half and the rest of the Karak thought "Its not important enough to interrupt him yet.".
I remember a lot of people being salty that walls had fallen while Snorri was forging, if the dwarves had come to ask for help I doubt we'd have said "Come back later"

 

[Copperscale]

Snorri stayed in his workshop for the first half of the siege when it was in existential danger from the Chaos Incursion.

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In his defence, he didn't notice the Chaos incursion .

Fair nough, i just wasnt sure if itd need the whole thing or not and that's why we couldnt do it.

I just...upgrading our armor seems like a reasonable thing to me, at least in terms of taking advantage of the stuff we got...we can alaays make more when we get better stuff anyways.

Whats the big deal?

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I'm not the one that needs convincing .

I'd go with any options for the Heart cos i like them all.

The cool option: Gromril Gronti, eternal defender of Kraka Drakk
Pragmatic option: the Healing banner. The North is hurting for population, and likely wants to start reclaiming the north. Such a potent banner would minimize losses.

Putting it in a T5 armor is OK, if perhaps suboptimal for the Dwarfs as a whole. It would put us firmly in the Super-combatant tier. We would be able to take Supercombatant level damage but aren't a skilled enough warrior to dish out that kind of damage. Snorri's axe is just "a pretty good one". We'd need a T4+ weapon to fill that role, and i'm not sure we want that. It might start an arms race... which is what those opposing the armor are talking about.

 

[argenten]

Fair nough, I mean. All options work, and how would a healing banner work? Regen, ir just outright magic healing?

 

[SuperSonicSound]

Personally I think we need to upgrade our equipment, I don't think we need to use the Heart on our selves at least not on armour. Adamant and other T4 ingredients used on our gear would still represent a huge jump in capability.

I feel like the heart should be used on something like a banner rune that would take effect hold wide, if we could convert that Master Rune of Unyielding [Armour](Bearer has Regeneration, Tireless and Steelskin), Cost: 6 points

to a banner rune and then supercharge it using the heart of the Greedytroll so that it never runs out, that'd be great make the hold effectively a paradise to our dwarven brethren where they never tire, where any ailment is recovered from.

 

[Copperscale]

to a banner rune and then supercharge it using the heart of the Greedytroll so that it never runs out, that'd be great make the hold effectively a paradise to our dwarven brethren where they never tire, where any ailment is recovered from.

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Can we even boost a rune in that manner? I thought the heart supercharged healing runes by being the main ingredient, not as a supplement. Not sure what kind of ingredient the M.R. of Unyielding needs... i don't think it's going to be easy to get.

 

[Zaratustra]

I feel like the heart should be used on something like a banner rune that would take effect hold wide, if we could convert that Master Rune of Unyielding [Armour](Bearer has Regeneration, Tireless and Steelskin), Cost: 6 points

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That would be actualy the worst possible use, remenber ther hearth has limitless energy, not infinite, make a rune to affect one dwarf and he will regrow limbs as quick as they can be torn off, make a banner to affect a group and at most it can fix broken limbs, try to spread it to a hold and is doubtfull if people would even notice.

 

[Copperscale]

That would be actualy the worst possible use, remenber ther hearth has limitless energy, not infinite, make a rune to affect one dwarf and he will regrow limbs as quick as they can be torn off, make a banner to affect a group and at most it can fix broken limbs, try to spread it to a hold and is doubtfull if people would even notice.

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There's also another possible uses: we could try to empower the healing springs. Making a single pool where the Rune boosts the power of the water to Regrow limbs level would help a lot of dwarfs, and Karaz ankor a lot. It would mean that ultimately, as long as you survive the battle there is no more permanent crippling.

 

[Ferdiad]

There's also another possible uses: we could try to empower the healing springs. Making a single pool where the Rune boosts the power of the water to Regrow limbs level would help a lot of dwarfs, and Karaz ankor a lot. It would mean that ultimately, as long as you survive the battle there is no more permanent crippling.

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With the possible path of runic limbs that seems like a big waste as well.

 

[BeepSmile]

There's also another possible uses: we could try to empower the healing springs. Making a single pool where the Rune boosts the power of the water to Regrow limbs level would help a lot of dwarfs, and Karaz ankor a lot. It would mean that ultimately, as long as you survive the battle there is no more permanent crippling.

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Huh. Neat idea. A runic item that takes a bit of healing water and turns it into a full blown "potion of regeneration" that can then be taken to various holds for use, or battlefields for immediate use, at least enough to prevent bleeding out. Would help many, many people who would otherwise die; do the not dying thing instead.

There would be a limit on "amount of potions made per day" if this is a thing that we could make of course, but it would be great for all the Dwarves, and great for the hold too.

Regarding runic limbs, there would be a limit on the amount of potions made (assuming we can do this), but... runic items take time to make, each and every one. If we can make this Regeneration Imbument Item, it would be a front-ended investment that can go on indefinitely, limited by how much energy can be ut into the water per second, and by the availability of the water itself - I'm assuming the spring has a source and is not a static pool, btw.

 

[Copperscale]

With the possible path of runic limbs that seems like a big waste as well.

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Well, on the runic prosthetic hand, yes. But on the other non prosthetic hand, a Runic arm is still a prosthetic.

At the current level, the runic version is a weaker, less dexterous version of the dwarf's arm with no sense of touch. It's miles better than any other prosthetic. At the end of the prosthetics tree, we'll have, at best a prosthetic that is almost equal to the dwarf's natural arm. Superior durability, but lower dexterity and tactile sense.
There is really no price for being whole again. A rune prosthetic gets you to 99% from where you were, but nothing can get you back to 100%. You still have a stump underneath.
Not to mention, boosting the healing springs might benefit illnesses and diseases, which we can't do anything about with Prosthetics.

This is a setting where Nurgle exists. Miraculous healing is never truly a waste.

Edit: And having that Miraculous source of healing would probably end up with a major settlement developing around Valaya's healing vents.
Edit2: I don't know about healing potions... I'm iffy at potentially consuming a finite resource. I would think consuming the water would be for extreme cases, rather than as a matter of course.

 

[BeepSmile]

Well, on the runic prosthetic hand, yes. But on the other non prosthetic hand, a Runic arm is still a prosthetic.

At the current level, the runic version is a weaker, less dexterous version of the dwarf's arm with no sense of touch. It's miles better than any other prosthetic. At the end of the prosthetics tree, we'll have, at best a prosthetic that is almost equal to the dwarf's natural arm. Superior durability, but lower dexterity and tactile sense.
There is really no price for being whole again. A rune prosthetic gets you to 99% from where you were, but nothing can get you back to 100%. You still have a stump underneath.
Not to mention, boosting the healing springs might benefit illnesses and diseases, which we can't do anything about with Prosthetics.

This is a setting where Nurgle exists. Miraculous healing is never truly a waste.

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Also, artisanal time for the creation each prosthetic, and the vast, vast majority are not going to be that 99% level. How many dwarves have no replacment limbs at all due to limited producers? How many bleed out on the battlefield that would live if they just had something to clot the blood a bit and buy time?

That said, I was thinking of physical regeneration alone while you are thinking of regeneration + panacea abilities, though weather we can make something that can do one thing, but not both is entirely in the hands of the QM.

 

[Lost Star]

I would like trying to make a litteral healing spring. It seems unique. As in I haven't heard it existing at all in warhammer.

Plus the healing gods could use some love too. It's always the combat guys that get the good stuff.

 

[Rovos]

I would like trying to make a litteral healing spring. It seems unique. As in I haven't heard it existing at all in warhammer.

Plus the healing gods could use some love too. It's always the combat guys that get the good stuff.

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we have one alreaddy? the spring we found last turn that was burried undeneath the rocks from Yorri's book of odd places

 

[Lost Star]

we have one alreaddy? the spring we found last turn that was burried undeneath the rocks from Yorri's book of odd places

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No I mean use the heart and runes to make it legendary. There are a lotta things devoted to warriors and such. There's very few things devoted to healing them up and keeping them at peak performance. It's an afterthought. I feel it's a bit of a shame.

Also considering what pulling a Snori is, we could probably use something to keep us up and running.

 

[Ferdiad]

No I mean use the heart and runes to make it legendary. There are a lotta things devoted to warriors and such. There's very few things devoted to healing them up and keeping them at peak performance. It's an afterthought. I feel it's a bit of a shame.

Also considering what pulling a Snori is, we could probably use something to keep us up and running.

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Dwarfs aren't human, they can heal from near anything with some rest and beer.