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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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soulcake said:
(Roll, Perception: 65 +2[Sniffer] +30[Runelord] +20[Student of the Odd] -50[Eldest Writings] -22[Supreme Sniffer] =45) DC ????
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What was it? What was it???

soulcake said:
The Mind of Things
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Oh now *that's* promising. Runes that buff thought? Ye flipping gods, we need to research this one soon.

Good to have you back, @soulcake. Did you happen to roll Yorri's should-I-stay-or-should-I-go-now yet?

Also: Whatever happened to Yorri's apprentice Joll?
 
tri2 said:
I would rather wait till we upgrade the prosthesis more, no giving out shoddy work, if the new arm can't toss a troll like a beardling then it ain't ready yet :V
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I understand that that's a joke, but I do worry about, and get annoyed by, the fixation of trying to make everything we can 'perfect'. If you keep pushing things off until it's 'perfect' you find they never get done.
 
soulcake said:
Variant Research unlocked: The Mind of Things
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Finish this research before we make the prosthetics. Better to have some simple mental connection between the prosthetics and the mind so it's easier for the dwarves using them to manoeuvre.

Second thing of note. I think this would eventually end up being an in for the Rune of Kingship. Storing wisdom of every user would definitely need something to do with the mind.
 
Really enjoyed that the updates where even when Snorri is researching has him interacting with interesting people like Moira, Yorri and even Morgrim.

Also definitely think we should put off taking an apprentice for several turns now. People try to use the argument that we need to make as many runesmiths as possible to help dwarf kind while ignoring the fact that not only have we already taught several runesmiths already but we already can help Dwarfs with our current projects. Such projects include the healing vents which not only speed up healing but might make a powerful healing regent for runes, making prosthetics and/or further researching the motion tree to get better prothestics so that we can help dwarfs that have lost their limbs and of course we still need to help out our Griffin bros.

Again, we can always get apprentices later and many are likely fine with that but really think that we should at the moment work on research not just to speed up how much we can get done sooner but also directly help dwarfs now instead of slowing things down for a much later payoff, as in centuries, by teaching apprentices when we don't even need to be the ones teaching them ourselves
 
yeah, hold off on apprentices, improve ourselves first so we can train the next batch better, there is no shortage of master less apprentices in the future or a shortage of potentials that will not be taught due to lack of teacher, unless snorri opens up a lecture hall style apprenticeship or something
 
Red Bovine said:
Really enjoyed that the updates where even when Snorri is researching has him interacting with interesting people like Moira, Yorri and even Morgrim.

Also definitely think we should put off taking an apprentice for several turns now. People try to use the argument that we need to make as many runesmiths as possible to help dwarf kind while ignoring the fact that not only have we already taught several runesmiths already but we already can help Dwarfs with our current projects. Such projects include the healing vents which not only speed up healing but might make a powerful healing regent for runes, making prosthetics and/or further researching the motion tree to get better prothestics so that we can help dwarfs that have lost their limbs and of course we still need to help out our Griffin bros.

Again, we can always get apprentices later and many are likely fine with that but really think that we should at the moment work on research not just to speed up how much we can get done sooner but also directly help dwarfs now instead of slowing things down for a much later payoff, as in centuries, by teaching apprentices when we don't even need to be the ones teaching them ourselves
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We can help more dwarfs if we finish the research for the prosthetics, which will lead directly to a quality of life improvement for the many veterans that are missing limbs. Our actions are even more valuable right now and shouldn't be wasted, I wouldn't say teaching apprentices are a waste of actions, but we definitely could be doing some very important research instead.

Edit: I was just looking at the apprentice selection page and saw the apprentice that got snatched up by Yorri, Joll Todriksson. @soulcake , did he survive the first invasion of chaos?
 
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soulcake said:
Garagrim Axebite, dead in the reclamation of the Foundling Ward of Kraka Ravnsvake
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Hell I feel the grudge in this one and I don't have a stone soul. Hope he activated the grudge rune inside the daemon. It can even count as research I mean what happen if a target absorbs/forced to eat a grudge rune direct at them? They get cursed?
soulcake said:
He sniffs down at the Silver Wutroth appendage, made in a facsimile of good Dwarfen biology
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This one also please me^^.

Maybe with a rune of fellowship one master can show their students how to actually do their work with acceptable skill. Even if they don't get the speed booster to avoid break the game which is fair.

So many ways this rune can help. With grudges, with teaching. I know that I already said this. But even more ridiculous stuff like 'living armor', better controlled golems, safety precautions to dangerous experiments. Hell if it works with golem even without the feedback one can teach how to fight a x creature by making one controlling the golem and the other another golem of a dwarf so that they can have a taste of a fight to death against a real strong monster, daemon or some other evil humanoid without have so many 'young dwarf' dying to learn the lesson.
I know that more ways this can be use but I think I already write too much^^. So I will only say this one more. Control traps and walls. Let see if the daemon like to take the walls when it change forms and when dwarfs can safely move in areas with traps activated hold the daemons in some bad position ^^.
edit: damn you auto corruption. A grudge to you I make^^.
Edit2: grammar and better worded.
 
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I kinda love that melancholic tone that Snorri has; where he's long outlived his love, he's outlived his comrades and contemporaries that were encouraged by his actions to come north with him, and the suggestion that on some level he's scared he'll outlive both his master and his apprentices, his loved ones in general even.

It kinda makes sense why Dwarfs live such shorter lives after the golden age. Even in the golden age such a life wears upon you, in the Time of Woes? Such tragedy might be as personally dangerous to Snorri as Kholek was.
 
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Captain Spatula said:
Finish this research before we make the prosthetics. Better to have some simple mental connection between the prosthetics and the mind so it's easier for the dwarves using them to manoeuvre.

Second thing of note. I think this would eventually end up being an in for the Rune of Kingship. Storing wisdom of every user would definitely need something to do with the mind.
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The Rune of Prosthesis already works via a mental connection, that's decently described in its fluff.

The rune of mind probably has to do with both the Rune of Prosthesis and Gronti. The Rune of Kingship path is also a really interesting idea. I'd honestly want to pursue it more for that than anything else.

Red Bovine said:
Again, we can always get apprentices later and many are likely fine with that but really think that we should at the moment work on research not just to speed up how much we can get done sooner but also directly help dwarfs now instead of slowing things down for a much later payoff, as in centuries, by teaching apprentices when we don't even need to be the ones teaching them ourselves
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So. I will note that this sort of argument is basically just another rendition of the commonly seen "We can do X later" arguments that usually pop up for things in threads that then never get done.

And like, if you don't want apprentices again that's fine? But I'd find your arguments far more convincing if you just said it straight, instead of this because effectively what this argument is arguing for is to depress interest in getting them again at all. By way of the principle that getting a large thread to do anything basically revolves around a small fraction of its population being really loud. I mean, shit, there's perfectly reasonable reasons not to do it like finding the current journeymen sufficient for the story role of bumbling apprentices.

But this one is just kinda bleh. Especially since while research expands our capabilities it does not directly help dwarves as you claim because it is not apply that capability to tasks that actually make things.

In my mind another apprentice is a good way to go at the project of Runesmith interconnectedness as already set up by our cooperative moves so far, by taking up an apprentice and training them then taking another after the first is mostly trained up so that the first apprentice can help us teach the second. Gives our apprentices teaching experience, always good, and gives our later apprentices access to a bigger pool of specialties and provides a relationship between the two so that runesmiths we train are fundamentally interconnected on a personal level beyond just being students of Snorri Gift Giver.
 
Agreed. Apprentices get their own RERs after all, and propagate further beneficial changes. Like Snerra with the entire clan she helped. It just hasn't shown up recently because the dice are being nasty.
 
BungieONI said:
But this one is just kinda bleh. Especially since while research expands our capabilities it does not directly help dwarves as you claim because it is not apply that capability to tasks that actually make things.
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The issue here is:

At what point does the Research backlog ever end?
At what point does the Production backlog ever end?
Why is now a less ideal time to devote at least 1/5th of Snorri's time to Apprentices, as opposed to a future date?

The current argument I see for holding off on apprentices, for now, is based on the fact that Yorri is around, which represents a unique opportunity for Snorri to advance his craft further, working together with the wisdom of his master to master many topics that would otherwise take him longer by himself, without a teacher to work with. I buy this particular argument, but I am very uncomfortable with open-ended "we'd do it later" arguments, since color me skeptical if our research backlog ever disappears, or even shrinks.
 
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One good rune for the Prosthesis is probably is the stone rune. The first rune used by a dwarf, used to represent them and by tradition used in a piece of a armor that will be used by kin. So yeah this one has metaphysical weight^^.

My doubt is if kingship or metal is better to by the final rune or if a ancestor rune is better if the dwarf will mostly craft. To get the best DeX with these new arms. Anyway dwarfs are bullshit in how good the can control their arms even with weights and other things so I probably overthinking.
 
Andmeuths said:
The issue here is:

At what point does the Research backlog ever end?
At what point does the Production backlog ever end?
Why is now a less ideal time to devote at least 1/5th of Snorri's time to Apprentices, as opposed to a future date?

The current argument I see for holding off on apprentices, for now, is based on the fact that Yorri is around, which represents a unique opportunity for Snorri to advance his craft further, working together with the wisdom of his master to master many topics that would otherwise take him longer by himself, without a teacher to work with. I buy this particular argument, but I am very uncomfortable with open-ended "we'd do it later" arguments, since color me skeptical if our research backlog ever disappears, or even shrinks.
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Yeah, rather insightful questions honestly.

We know that at least the Production backlong can end because we've done it. The only reason we had things in it at one point was because I made write ins for it and apprentice work, which isn't even a Snorri action. And thank god for that, since I've been in too many quests where that flat is not possible.

Research wise with our two projects that we completed this turn it looks like stuff that has to do with poking Runes opens into chains and tech trees. And we know Secrets of Light opens into a chain from previous discussion with Soulcake. So we have five confirmed chains, Rune Metal, Diction, Movement of Things, Mind of Things, Secrets of Light.

And then we have the Understand a Master Rune which seems relatively limited. I'd hope it wouldn't be open ended into a chain, if it did open into one I can't see any reason to ever spend through an entire chain. Bluntly too much time invested for honestly limited gain in my mind.

Then we have five material science projects, but those should be relatively short since its testing what the thing does when used as an ingredient in Runes.

I think we can cut our Research category in half relatively straightforwardly, but the chains will take multiple centuries if you add all their times together. Among other things I expect Rune Metal to take up to ten parts and for Movement of Things and Mind of Things to be similar. This is because Rune Metal and Movement of Things are central features of pillars of Runecraft, Gromril and Gronti.

Now holding off apprentices until Yorri leaves is a reasonable argument for basically the reasons you lay out in my mind. I still plan on getting some next turn if I can pass it through the thread, but it absolutely makes sense to just focus on Yorri research.
 
So, uh, just got home. Are Bolt Hurlers a new thing, or just Morgrim speeding this up? And... How are they better?
 
And to expand on the whole research chain thing, I expect that the way soulcake has designed them is that these chains and any further ones that come up can be finished and that reaching the capstone of a chain is a Big Deal. And that reaching the capstones in related chains is an even Bigger Deal because of synergy.

But that there's enough of individual chains that this advancement is supposed to take the entire scope of the quest to get through every single chain. I.e we'll probably always have at least one chain research to spend time on. Which makes sense. Runelords and Runesmiths are famous for sequestering themselves in research for centuries at a time, which is effectively what research chains can create if we have nothing else to do.
 
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