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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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DragonParadox said:
I think yes to the first and no to the second. Much as the dwarfs would hate it put this way they would seek the path of least resistance. If a runelord wants a certain pattern in metal they are going to design a rune device to make it so.
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Oh, for the second, I meant etching as in the specific process of having different crystalline structures and different alloy layering in a solid block of metal; and using an acid to react with those structures and layering to make those structures and layering more apparent to the naked eye. It's tied to chemistry and forging, hence I think it's what a blacksmith would be an expert at whereas a runelord might be familiar with the process, but not have deep knowledge about it.
 
Khaos said:
I've been wondering, what does the Metalsmith guild knows about metals that the Runesmith guild doesn't know? And vice versa (about material science of course, not runes).

Where does an Old Blacksmith outclass an Old Runelord? Are we talking just about breadth of knowledge, meaning for example Runelord might not know how to specifically make a thousand springs for chariots for cheap, or is there advanced knowledge that the the blacksmith would know but the runelord wouldn't?
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They probably know more about mundane material science than you guys do. Snorri is an outlier in his thoroughness, but even he can't outcompete the intellectual efforts an entire Guild. The Metalsmiths Guild can't rely on the luxury of magic to make their ingots the same level of quality, make the material costs as efficient as possible, etc etc. So they have to know, and thankfully metal isn't blackboxed the way Runes are, so they can do it the same way we did IRL. Its not insane to imagine that the very cutting edge of metalsmith knowledge is effectively an "age" and a bit ahead of the current one. They were at bronze when others were stone, got to iron when they finally made bronze, etc etc. The fact that you have plate mail in what is effectively the classical era of the Warhammer world is a testament to that.

Its not a hot take to believe that knowledge isn't one of the things stopping a Dawi industrial revolution. Arguably its the only thing that doesn't. #Culture

EDIT: I made bigger edits because I read your question better.

DevilsAdvocate said:
Considering how strict runesmiths are about not writing any runelore down, I find it strange that Thungni has a Tablet with written down runelore. Is it a magic tablet with a password, or other means of preventing unworthy access?

I really am just curious what runelords opinion of that is, beyond "He is Thungni, of course he is able to write down runelore"
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They're significant to Runesmiths mostly for cultural purposes. The Runes are meant for proof on concept as well as keeping the tablet resist wear and tear, and the lore written in and of itself isn't groundbreaking because all Runesmiths learn it fairly early on too.

But its one of the the first, and one of the oldest things that Thungni made, and that means something.

Think of them as if it was like having the actual Stone tablets that carry the 10 Commandments, and the first finished draft of the Elements that Euclid wrote, in terms of significance to the field. What the item represents and its very existence matters more than what it does/whats inside it. Its a matter of debate because its existence invalidate the no ever writing down even vaguely related Runelore, just muddies the water.

Was this the acceptable level of knowledge to be written? Was it a one off meant to teach the very first Runesmiths an, at the time, exotic and incredibly novel type of skillset only He knew? Was it implicitly saying if you can keep the secret safe, then how its stored doesn't matter? Thungni, as is His way, never clarified.

#Culture #Runesmiths
 
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Khaos said:
Oh, for the second, I meant etching as in the specific process of having different crystalline structures and different alloy layering in a solid block of metal; and using an acid to react with those structures and layering to make those structures and layering more apparent to the naked eye. It's tied to chemistry and forging, hence I think it's what a blacksmith would be an expert at whereas a runelord might be familiar with the process, but not have deep knowledge about it.
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Oh yeah, that makes sense, a runelord would most likely use runes.
 
Does anyone know which threadmark has that description of Snorrist philosophy?

P.S. I think it might be good for an informational on the different ideologies of Runesmiths. Radicals, Moderates, Conservatives, and some of their sub-types. Like Vragni-Conservatives.
 
weeblypanda said:
Does anyone know which threadmark has that description of Snorrist philosophy?

P.S. I think it might be good for an informational on the different ideologies of Runesmiths. Radicals, Moderates, Conservatives, and some of their sub-types. Like Vragni-Conservatives.
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Its in the FAQ post here.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest) Fantasy - Users' Choice!

━< Extra Information >━ Typing #DiscordDump into the search bar and specifying the Thread should also reveal a few other less important WoG posts. Similarly, I've begun tagging WoG posts circa June 2022 with category tags as well. ━< User Made Info Posts >━ These are managed by the posters who...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Frequently Asked Questions section, under the Dwarf Society Questions spoiler.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
If you asked the southern conservative preKKR they'd have said Snorri and Vragni are the same flavor of self delusional radicals.
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Nah, I am no advocate of southern conservatives, but they do take their politics seriously. They'd see Vrangi and Snori as different kinds of radical since their approach to... ahem reinterpreting the Rule of Pride are not just different, they are diametrically opposed.
 
Ancestors above I want to wander and find more inspirations out there in Malus, rather than following whatever Easter egg hunt/ARG Thungni has planned, or research puzzles for puzzles sake. The brotherhood can do some more load carrying.

Do we really need to find a giant magic wand and a tablet of 10 commandments? Does have to be us?
 
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RwconHD said:
Ancestors above I want to wander and find more inspirations out there in Malus, rather than following whatever Easter egg hunt/ARG Thungni has planned, or research puzzles for puzzles sake. The brotherhood can do some more load carrying.

Do we really need to find a giant magic wand and a tablet of 10 commandments? Does have to be us?
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...No?

Like, kind of an odd take to be having when we have zero leads on Gormwand or the tablet and the like. There's no starting point of the ARG to follow.
 
soulcake said:
Prompted in part from questions in Discord, I can reveal a few things regarding a few Ancestral artefacts in more detail. The list is obviously not exhaustive, but I figure these are the ones that you guys care about/or Snorri won't need a dedicated interlude to figure out where they are.

AncestorArtefactDescriptionCurrent/Presumed/Last Known Location
GrungniThe Throne of PowerHis most favoured and greatest creationSeat of the High King
DrongrundumThe Thunder Hammer of Grungni, the weapon He wields in His martial aspect.Likely in Snorri Whitebeard's keeping.
BlidazdurakazThe Lightning Pick-axe is the tool He wields in His miner's aspect, "Could let him hollow out a mountain and pull up the whole bounty of the stone beneath Him"Held by the Miners Guild of Everpeak
Bryn-hunkiHis ever-burning miner's helm, "So bright that it illuminates the void and grants those who listen properly the knowledge of the Earth"Held by the Miners Guild of Everpeak
ValayaKradskontiHer Rune Axe, wielded in Her martial aspectHeld by the Cult of Valaya, within the Temple in Everpeak
GrimnirAz-DreugidumHis first axeCarried by the Ancestor as He marched north to His Doom
FoefellerHis second axeHeld by the HIgh King
Third AxeHis third axe, a wickedly sharp double bladed Great-axe (see Turn 14)The vaults of Karaz-a-Karak.
Armour,Adamant armour (see Turn 14)The vaults of Karaz-a-Karak
GazulZharrvengrynHis Runic GreatswordPresumed to be either held by Gazul still, or with the Cult of Gazul in the East
BrazierA Runic Brazier that Gazul carried when He discovered the Ancestor Runes of His siblingsMissing
SmednirAzulokridHis Rune Hammer, used to create the greatest items of the Karaz AnkorMissing, the ringing of the hammer was heard from behind Smednir's workshop doors long after His last recorded appearance, before it eventually fell silent.
Ghal MarazTHE Warhammer FantasyThe vaults of Karaz-a-Karak
Metallurgy CypherA Gromril cube that holds a series of Gromril scrolls that hold Smednir's greatest and most significant (written) smelting formulae. Including the first recipe for smelting GromrilHeld by the Metalsmiths Guild in Karak Azul
ThungniKaraz-Kazak-RhunHis principal WeaponPresumed to be in the hands of Clan Thungnisson, actually lost. Discovered and now Held by Snorri Klausson
GormwandHis Runestaff, "could make the unknowing believe Thungni was Himself a wizard"Presumed to be in the hands of Clan Thungnisson. In doubt.
Runic tongsHis tongs, in conjunction with His hammer, were used to create all of His greatest workPresumed to be in the hands of Clan Thungnisson. In doubt.
Runic tabletA stone tablet that bears some of the first Runes ever inscribed by Thungni alongside other esoteric (non-Rune) lore.Presumed to be in the hands of Clan Thungnisson. In doubt.
MorgrimDrengiMechanical Rune-empowered War MachineMissing after the Engineers Guild of Zhufbar found its berth in Mogrim's workshop empty.
Gear of WarA set of Runic tools that allow the user to machine tools and components with supernatural precision.Held by the Engineers Guild of Zhufbar, loaned out to those deemed a paragon of the Guild
Focal LensesRunic lenses that give unparalleled insight and understanding of natural forces and the resulting personal notes from the Ancestor about using the subtlest secrets of the natural world.Held by the Engineers Guild of Zhufbar, loaned out to those deemed a paragon of the Guild
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This is probably worth threadmarking :)
 
I have some thoughts about what we should be doing with our rune of wind sight. It's too important to only have two people know it even if Karstah and Snorri are unlikely to be struck at the same time.

At the same time, I don't want to reveal (and trade) to the brotherhood or Alric until we have done more with it. Before that, I'd like to have Snorri develop a Master Rune and at least have some framework as to what happens inside runes when or after they are made. Long term, this will probably be taught to every runelord or something similar, but we aren't there yet.

So, a first step might be sharing the rune of wind sight with all of Snorri's apprentices, and if that's too big of a thing to be shared freely, surely they have acquired runes Snorri doesn't know. Maybe a social action would be fit for this?
 
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Khaos said:
I have some thoughts about what we should be doing with our rune of wind sight. It's too important to only have two people know it even if Karstah and Snorri are unlikely to be struck at the same time.

At the same time, I don't want to reveal (and trade) to the brotherhood or Alric until we have done more with it. Before that, I'd like to have Snorri develop a Master Rune and at least have some framework as to what happens inside runes when or after they are made. Long term, this will probably be taught to every runelord or something similar, but we aren't there yet.
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What's your reasoning behind waiting until we develop the Master Rune?
 
BungieONI said:
What's your reasoning behind waiting until we develop the Master Rune?
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Just the vibe tbh.

I have no doubt that a rune of wind sight is a very big deal, but I want it to be an extraordinarily momentous event. Instead of having Snorri just release the rune of wind sight and build upon it later with a master rune and a framework of what winds do inside runes. Just the wind sight rune feels too partial of a result to me, unfinished.

OFC, it's still unfinished after the framework and a master rune, but it feels like a complete first step.
 
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Ok so a Master Rune is a Rune Combo compressed into a singular rune, right?

The current Windsight Rune lets Dwarfs see the Winds of Magic as colors, if I recall correctly. so... what exactly could Snorri/we combo with that in order to make a Master Rune of Windsight? Would it be better to go all in on improving the Sight part of Windsight, or to try incorporating other senses like Touch, Smell, Taste, Kinesthetics, Temperature, so on and so forth?

I dunno how practical it would be but it might be better/best to wait until Snorri can break the rule of three to try and crack a Master Rune of Windsight. Just, y'know, casually give Dwarfs the ability to sense magic using all five main senses with a singular pictogram.
 
I'm pretty certain the master rune of windsight is reincorporating the metaphysical bits that were left out because Snorri didn't understand them or couldn't get them to work. I fully expect esp pt2 to be locked until we understand fate and the winds of magic better. It's better to share the rune as is rather than wait likely centuries.

Plus, the normal rune doesn't need any special reagents while the master rune will likely need fimir eyes. The lack of a rare reagent is actually pretty important because while it's not as rare as voidstone, it will be rare enough to bottleneck the amount of people who make the master rune version. The rune is already basically a master rune and only kept from being that by a ridiculous amount of finagling the rule of form.
 
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Khaos said:
Just the vibe tbh.

I have no doubt that a rune of wind sight is a very big deal, but I want it to be an extraordinarily momentous event. Instead of having Snorri just release the rune of wind sight and build upon it later with a master rune and a framework of what winds do inside runes. Just the wind sight rune feels too partial of a result to me, unfinished.

OFC, it's still unfinished after the framework and a master rune, but it feels like a complete first step.
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You know fair if you consider it unfinished, however I will point out that Soul has presented Durin's Consternation as a pretty simple thing.

soulcake said:
Dwarfs can't see the Winds of Magic, but their Runes use the Winds of Magic. They can't fully understand their Runes without being able to see the Winds of Magic.
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And Snorri himself thinks that the Consternation is ended. They can now develop that understanding, that framework, with the rune he's invented.

The thematic vision, the pre and post cognition? Those things Snorri clearly figures are superfluous for actually figuring out what the Winds do inside of Runes.

You don't need the Master Rune to create the framework of what Winds do inside of Runes, according to what the Quest is telling us.

Now waiting until we have a better framework of runes and what the Winds do inside of them? Yeah, that's more understandable as a vibe to me. I don't agree that we should wait till we have that framework, but I get the logic.

AmberSlime said:
Ok so a Master Rune is a Rune Combo compressed into a singular rune, right?

The current Windsight Rune lets Dwarfs see the Winds of Magic as colors, if I recall correctly. so... what exactly could Snorri/we combo with that in order to make a Master Rune of Windsight? Would it be better to go all in on improving the Sight part of Windsight, or to try incorporating other senses like Touch, Smell, Taste, Kinesthetics, Temperature, so on and so forth?

I dunno how practical it would be but it might be better/best to wait until Snorri can break the rule of three to try and crack a Master Rune of Windsight. Just, y'know, casually give Dwarfs the ability to sense magic using all five main senses with a singular pictogram.
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Fortunately, we don't need to try and hack together a Master Rune ourselves. We can just keep plinking at the ESP research line and it'll fall out.
 
BungieONI said:
Now waiting until we have a better framework of runes and what the Winds do inside of them? Yeah, that's more understandable as a vibe to me. I don't agree that we should wait till we have that framework, but I get the logic.
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Agreed, this is like the Prosthesis vs Forged Limb runes. We could technically release the product as is but allowing it to mature through a few more rounds of experimentation and refinement is probably a good idea.
 
weeblypanda said:
Agreed, this is like the Prosthesis vs Forged Limb runes. We could technically release the product as is but allowing it to mature through a few more rounds of experimentation and refinement is probably a good idea.
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I don't actually think that's a completely correct analogy in this case.

The prosthesis equivalent was the prototype Rune of Windsight Snorri invented on turn 51. This new completed rune is the Forged Limb equivalent.
 
BungieONI said:
The prosthesis equivalent was the prototype Rune of Windsight Snorri invented on turn 51. This new completed rune is the Forged Limb equivalent.
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Fair, but to be fair we're older and therefore much more stringent. Also, this is something that has to do with magic and we're dwarves, we've got to make absolutely sure.
 
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