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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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That raises an interesting question.

What is dawi metrology like? Do they even have a system of connecting temperature to numbers? For most of human history, we did not. Temperature was measured by the color of the metal and the coal.
 
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So far as shown in story, temperature was measured in color/feel. I don't think any other measure has been shown yet, but that's probably due to how resilient dwarfs are, plus rune protections and their threshold of use for those temperatures (ie melt gromril, make pure gromril, etc. etc.)
 
So far as shown in story, temperature was measured in color/feel. I don't think any other measure has been shown yet, but that's probably due to how resilient dwarfs are, plus rune protections and their threshold of use for those temperatures (ie melt gromril, make pure gromril, etc. etc.)
Honestly, if there isn't already a standard and system in place, we'll probably end up having to invent it once we get started on alchemy in earnest. Alchemy will definitely need finer temperature control then most of the other craftsguilds. Maybe the brewers or cooks guilds have something they use in house. Either those guys or the engineers.
 
I think getting like Googles with the rune would be great, especially if we make Rune that measures the tempature and shows it.

Imagine all the more than average grumbling longbeard smiths and engineers would do:

"We didn't have those fancy googles back in my day beardling. We used to measure heat with our bare hands, harrumph!"

Augmented reality goggles and visors would pair nicely with the temperature readouts, but adding an internet search engine to it may be a bit too OP.
 
[Semi Canon] The Other Runelords Contribute - Bara, Bara does make something for Otrek
The Other Runelords Contribute - Bara

"Not to worry, beardling, I promised the king artillery and I'm not one for breaking such an oath."

Otrek walks behind, politely silent, his silver and teal clothing still faintly shimmering in the Rune light, followed by his huskarls.

By rights there's an argument that his grandfather, the King ought to be gathering this particular bit of work. And if not King Gloin, then Prince Gimli. Certain eyebrows could be raised, had been raised even, for the Runelord before him had grumbled to see him and not his father or his grandfather.

There were any number of reasons why that was not so.

First and foremost, while there was propriety in the King sending a more elderly representative, the Prince at least, to gather the work it was still, fundamentally, his right to send just about anyone to gather the commission. There were limits but Otrek was not passed them by any sane definition of those limits, hardly some toddling child.

Secondly, his father and his grandfather are getting ready to go out marching again. Examining supplies, speaking with the troops, gathering the militia from outlying settlements, things that require a better touch, more gravitas. That have to go right.

Perhaps most of all, to try and get him used to dealing with the Rhunrikki. They are old, surly and stubborn folk, even more prone to grumbling than the usual elderly Dwarf with one, glaring, exception (and perhaps that was why he wouldn't be meeting with that particular glaring exception, hm?) and most of his fellow youth sure do seem to have trouble the second a truly old Dwarf starts grumbling.

He is...less inclined so. If he has made an actual error or if they seem in a truly murderous mood, aye, he'll get away fast as possible; but when he's done nothing wrong, and when she has no cause to be angry at him since he just got there?

Well, it all kind of washes off his back like water off of well-made tile.

His thoughts are interrupted as they reach her secondary workshop, meant for bigger projects or more numerous ones. Wutroth lies seasoning under the glow of the Runelights, even as the massive stone door slides open exposing the reception chamber for clients

On the other side, well.

Otrek is neither an engineer, nor war-minded, nor a Runesmith but he does have eyes, and those are some impressive war-machines. He can tell by the look in her eye that some part of her is pleased. "The king asked for war-machines so what nearly happened with Sven doesn't happen again, and I have made him some alright."

The tile mosaics of Thungni and Morgrim, studded with precious gems and shining metal, seemed to throw their light on to the pieces. Bara walks over and pats the smaller, a Bolt Hurler bigger--much bigger-- than any he's ever seen before which is sort of impressive in its own right just from size alone. The body is Pure Gromril, as are the prongs, tipped with Troll Horn that is itself capped with gold. Knotwork mountains run down the side of the main body, made of two different metals: snowy caps of white gold and darker, exposed body of blackened Gromril. The winch that will draw back the prongs is shaped like Morgrim's snarling visage, plated in gold, while a depiction of His long passed visit to Kraka Drak is carved into the prongs and then reinforced with bronze rendered dull, ironically enough making it stand out more against the shiny Gromril. To complete the effect the same bronze lines the side of the top of the main body, lining where the bolt will be held, many prayers to Morgrim.

She pats it, smiling with glee. "I call him Barag Grom. Master Rune of Shardthrower, Rune of Barbs, Rune of Burning. It hits something big enough, say one of their dragon, the bolt will break into pieces and send sharp, flaming shards of metal flying all over the place, still with enough force to punch through their armor, and then get stuck right into their flesh, and it's a pain to try and pull them out at the best of times."

Next she walks over and pats a truly huge Stonethrower. Wheels, taller than a dwarf, bear the immense weight with nary a complaint, perhaps because they're made of the same shining white metal as the Gift-Giver's armor, as is the rest of the contraption. There are seven spokes on each wheel, and each spoke honors one of the Ancestors: on the outer edge a precious jewel, polished so much it shined, carved to resemble the Ancestor's face, while the inner edge has their mundane rune carved and then reinforced with wire made of the best of gold. The spokes themselves are studded with gold and jewels designed to depict stories of the Ancestor in question.

The bucket that will hold the ammo is designed such that it resembles the snarling face of an Elder, their eyes hearthstones shimmering brightly. It's made of the same metal but layered with gold to make it shine until it meets the arms that connects it to the rest of the body, itself etched with the story of Kraka Drak from founding to the present day, with a particular emphasis on the Grudges struck out, in particular that Wazzock the Greedy One.

The lower body depicts the Great Incursion in pure gold layered onto the boxy body, everything from his namesake killing the thing to the King of the Skies dueling it and every moment in between, accentuated with jewels where necessary. She looks with pride at the thing, smiling, proud of her work.

"And this handsome lad, I call him Grumbaki Grund. Master Rune of Thunderclap, Rune of Dismay, Rune of Discord. It will blow up any walls it hits with a sonic boom, and any enemy that hears it will be horrified and confused in equal measure. Very horrified, very confused." She nods. "So then what does the king's kin think?"

He nods to the huskarls, who themselves get the chests of gold and more ready. "I think it would be a shame not to pay you more, for work is greater than the contract agreed on; and for that matter, I will convey as much to the king."
 
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Honestly, if there isn't already a standard and system in place, we'll probably end up having to invent it once we get started on alchemy in earnest. Alchemy will definitely need finer temperature control then most of the other craftsguilds. Maybe the brewers or cooks guilds have something they use in house. Either those guys or the engineers.
I expect it to already be a thing, but as a guild secret in the Metalsmith guild. Maybe the Jewellers guild too, since they deal with softer metals.
 
I expect it to already be a thing, but as a guild secret in the Metalsmith guild. Maybe the Jewellers guild too, since they deal with softer metals.
Historically, temperatures weren't measured in numbers until well into the 1700s, a time period and technological sophistication the Dawi haven't even gotten close to reaching yet. At best there'd have something like Cladius Galenus had in ancient rome, a very rough measurement based on water and melting ice. But that's more a cooking thing than a metallurgy thing, technology wouldn't get good enough for that until well into the 1800's with the pyrometer. I'd imagine the Dawi, with their master of metallurgy, might have a mercury barometer or medical thermometer, but nothing more.
 
So for the giant Dragon Groti were making is it just the two of them making the bloody monster, or are we inviting some of his other apprentices to work on it, and the secondary sections like the wings?
 
So for the giant Dragon Groti were making is it just the two of them making the bloody monster, or are we inviting some of his other apprentices to work on it, and the secondary sections like the wings?
It'll just be Snorri and Karstah working on it and the secondary equipment, when we get to the secondary sections.
 
(w.r.t runes and living things)

If I understand correctly, Runes convert magic into Rune Magic, so if one were to put Runes on a living being, all their ambient magic would become Rune Magic. Given this setting, a tree with a rune on it may become bereft of Ghyran and potentially die if it was depended on some ambient level of Ghyran to survive. A similar effect may occur on other beings - becoming bereft of Aqshy and thus becoming more mechanically minded (or bereft of Chamon and thus become less logically minded) and numerous other unknown effects.

Definitely don't do this on a magical living being, even if it's like a tree.
 
Historically, temperatures weren't measured in numbers until well into the 1700s,
But going by the beer they brew they need to calculate the temperature in number, because it is important and just going by feeling means you can't have recipes or they are really horrible to read. And even without measured temperature a system was used that boild fractions and added the boiling fluid back into the mash.
 
But going by the beer they brew they need to calculate the temperature in number, because it is important and just going by feeling means you can't have recipes or they are really horrible to read. And even without measured temperature a system was used that boild fractions and added the boiling fluid back into the mash.
The Brewer's Guild inventing numeral temperature systems and then keeping it a Guild Secret would be painfully in character.
 
But going by the beer they brew they need to calculate the temperature in number, because it is important and just going by feeling means you can't have recipes or they are really horrible to read. And even without measured temperature a system was used that boild fractions and added the boiling fluid back into the mash.
Do we know they even write down recipes? Are they not passed down from master to apprentice by memorization? Like runes.

The Brewer's Guild inventing numeral temperature systems and then keeping it a Guild Secret would be painfully in character.
Perhaps there are dozins of different numerical temperature systems, each customized for their specific use area.
Farmers' Guild have developed a system based around when water freeze and the ground is unworkable. The Brewers have one around boiling points of different alcohols. The priests og Valaya have a system for measuring body temperature.
We only know that we have not encountered one for the runesmiths, but but runework often involves a lot of smithing, and how likely is it that the runesmiths are the least developed in ths area?
 
Really struggling to find it but didn't soulcake have a post saying that different guild had had to develop different bits of maths, physics, chemistry and engineering for their own work and then slammed it into guild secrets?
 
Minor commentary note:
Topic: Islands of Stability theory
Datapoint for consideration: Kragg the Grim's Runestaff
Elaboration: Canonically Kragg the Grim managed to break the Rule of Three with his Runestaff, which bears four runes. [M.Balance], [Spellbreaking], [Spellbreaking] (Again), and [Furnace]
Link to Data: https://web.archive.org/web/2005040...mer/dwarfs/gaming/specialcharacters/kragg.htm

[Data added to communal pool. Returning to Thanksgiving celebrations]
 
Minor commentary note:
Topic: Islands of Stability theory
Datapoint for consideration: Kragg the Grim's Runestaff
Elaboration: Canonically Kragg the Grim managed to break the Rule of Three with his Runestaff, which bears four runes. [M.Balance], [Spellbreaking], [Spellbreaking] (Again), and [Furnace]
Link to Data: Warhammer - Dwarfs

[Data added to communal pool. Returning to Thanksgiving celebrations]
I can't access web archive because the uk is a failed state. https://www.reddit.com/r/hackernews/comments/uk0u1c/uk_is_over_the_edge_archiveorg_blocked_at_the/
Can someone give me a different link, my usual source disagrees
Article:
Runestaff - This ancient staff of oak is adorned with the skull of a Minotaur which Kragg slew while still a youth of just a hundred winters. The skull has been coated in brass to preserve it. The staff bears the Rune of the Furnace, the Rune of Spellbreaking, and the Rune of Passage

The source does include the link you provided but I didn't see the reasoning for why they chose the set of three rather than 4. ish, they mention different runes not 4 runes, are you sure the duplicate spellbreaking wasn't a typo?
 
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Do we know they even write down recipes? Are they not passed down from master to apprentice by memorization? Like runes.
We know they produce different beers, and they produce enough beer with consistent taste that they can sell many kegs, much more than can be made in one pot without industrial scale brewing. So either biochemistry works different in war hammer or they can feel temperature in the range of 50-80° C with an accuracy of about 3°. Or they use parts of boiling mash to hot mash to reach specific temperatures. But both means that they easily end up with a scale, just to have a way to talk about the temperature.
 
I can't access web archive because the uk is a failed state. https://www.reddit.com/r/hackernews/comments/uk0u1c/uk_is_over_the_edge_archiveorg_blocked_at_the/
Can someone give me a different link, my usual source disagrees
Article:
Runestaff - This ancient staff of oak is adorned with the skull of a Minotaur which Kragg slew while still a youth of just a hundred winters. The skull has been coated in brass to preserve it. The staff bears the Rune of the Furnace, the Rune of Spellbreaking, and the Rune of Passage

The source does include the link you provided but I didn't see the reasoning for why they chose the set of three rather than 4. ish, they mention different runes not 4 runes, are you sure the duplicate spellbreaking wasn't a typo?
It does specifically say "two Runes of Spellbreaking" in this instance. (The GW Website)
 
the 2006 entry rewrites his entry to only have [Spellbreaking], [Furnace], [Brotherhood], but from 2003 to 2005 he has the four rune staff.
Okay, I've added it but this seems like enought of a mess of retcons its going to keep a little note saying soulcake hasn't confirmed this is quest canon, because this doesn't seem definitive in a way that a codex would be.
Thanks for the pointer though
 
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