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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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make more runes, keep up the quality, a rune used is better than a master rune sitting unused.
our gift is not just an art to be looked at, our gift is a tool to help your fellows. do so.
help others the best you can the most you can.
-Snorri probably
 
KingCrimson1081 said:
So Snorrism is basically focus on the details others might miss or consider beneath them.
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I think it's Utilitarianism with a dash of removing gatekeeping.

Do your best to do the greatest good for the greatest number.
Always give your best, even if it doesn't measure up to the standards of your elders: a runed item will still do some good, even if it's not the greatest weapon ever made.
Persist in doing your best, frequent practice will improve your skill. It's better to have ten gradually improving rune axes, than to wait until you can make a really good one.
 
KingCrimson1081 said:
So Snorrism is basically focus on the details others might miss or consider beneath them.
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to a point, but there's also this
soulcake said:
But at the same time, you do not need to invent a new wrench to turn the same kind of nut, better your effort is spent on developing new Runes to solve new problems or creating works of art to show veneration of the craft.
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So really, to be a Snorrist is to be a runesmith that believes that sometimes, dwarfkind needs quantity over quality.

And to be fair, quantity over quality is actually a sacrifice on the runesmith's part, because there is (I hesitate to say most of the time, but most of the prominent times at least) less glory to helping a number of dawi conpared to helping a single prominent dawi. On the higher end of the scale, the ratio likely evens out, but this setting IS called Herohammer for a reason.
 
KingCrimson1081 said:
So Snorrism is basically focus on the details others might miss or consider beneath them.
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It's more accurate to say Snorrism is about opening up the possibility of value through quantity as opposed to quality.

Traditionally a Runesmith spend effort making a new piece of work of increasing quality. To nto break the Rule of pride, each work has to be better or more different from any other piece of work

Snorrist otoh open up and pursue the idea that a given work can include mass scale projects. So rather than 1 +100 Axe, you can give 100 +1 Axe . This gives them a 3rd option in addition to the traditionalist approach to the rule of pride.
 
TimEd said:
And to be fair, quantity over quality is actually a sacrifice on the runesmith's part, because there is (I hesitate to say most of the time, but most of the prominent times at least) less glory to helping a number of dawi conpared to helping a single prominent dawi. On the higher end of the scale, the ratio likely evens out, but this setting IS called Herohammer for a reason.
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Nope.

To be a Snorrist is to believe that Quantity and Quality should be married together.
 
soulcake said:
They see arming a Throng with at least some Runes as just as worthwhile as making a unique, fully Runed set of gear for a single great Dawi. They may not be so bespoke, or as creative, as their Colleagues but by Thungni sometimes you just need a Rune of Warding to turn a fatal blow into just a very painful one, a Rune of Fire to make killing that troll impossible to just difficult, or a Rune of cleaving to make excavating a new hall an effort of years just that much shorter.
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So I am guessing they are pretty popular among the guilds and thanes who tend to campaign. It isn't the really good stuff, but man is it nice to be able to have runed equipment. I am unsure if the great and old families mind on the grounds that making runed equipment more available makes their heirlooms seem worth less, or if they don't mind because it shows they have the chops to get the really good stuff unlike the plebeians.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Nope.

To be a Snorrist is to believe that Quantity and Quality should be married together.
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I think it needs to be distinguished what they're compared against.
This isn't a balancing act against a radical Quality over Quantity and a radical Quantity over Quality philosophies.

There was no philosophy advocating Quantity as inherently worthwhile previously.

Quality is the assumed default for dwarves.
 
Quantity for Runesmiths is normal capacity for other Dwarf Professions just to be clear. ( You are a freak outlier)

Mass Production as we understand it is still anathema. Its still all done by hand, in person, etc, etc.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Nope.

To be a Snorrist is to believe that Quantity and Quality should be married together.
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Hmmm

Snorrists as described is a movement designed around people who aren't Snorri's level of RIch. SO they focus on learning Runes that form the backbone of large scale organisation while allowing large scale works to be classified as a single work for teh purpose of the Rule of Pride. They aren't opposed to super high quality/low quantity bespoke items, just that the opposite is also permissable.

What I think the movement works day to day is that because Snorrists prioritize in learning Runes that work best in large quantities, they get virtually every commision for large scale works. Which is why Snorrists have so rapidly expanded because a lot of guilds/Thanes don't have as many options for large scale commisions giving Snorrists an untapped market.
 
Snorrists are basically the saying "Many hands make light work"

A hero unit is great, but it can't be everywhere at once, sometimes, you just need a bunch of guys to hold the line.

Also, most people learn best by doing something, so for the Snorrist to be making so many runes, they are getting better at their craft. Technically they haven't broken their Rules. They are getting better, just a little bit at a time with new pieces coming out every year. Instead of decades, with leaps in quality after years of studying and years more of making the new thing.

Dark as Silver said:
Chainforger looms ominously in the background.

You know back in my day dwarves just sat in a furnace all day to work Gromril Chain and they liked it.
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You know back in the day, Dwarves would sit at the forge all day to try to work Gromril Chain and fail, and they liked it
 
Evillevi said:
while allowing large scale works to be classified as a single work for teh purpose of the Rule of Pride.
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Do you mean like "I know I made 50 Gronti's with MWaking but actually tehy only count as 1 MWaking because they're a single work"?
Because I think... thats a couple of steps down the line from whats being proposed.... miles probably.

E: The rule of three hates this one simple trick: Just make a bunch of different items and pretend its only one thing.
 
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That's awesome. Snorrists seem super practical.

One Champion with Bespoke Rune Crafted Masterworks and a Unit of Dawi with Utilitarian but still Mastercrafted Rune Craft is probably about the same utility, but other Runesmiths are already arming the champions so someone has got to make sure the units are armed with Runecraft. And each unit armed compounds on itself to be greater than a single champion. Runed Unit = Runed Champion, but Runed Army > Runed Party of Champions.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Do you mean like "I know I made 50 Gronti's with MWaking but actually tehy only count as 1 MWaking because they're a single work"?
Because I think... thats a couple of steps down the line from whats being proposed.... miles probably.
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Ignoring that most snorrists don't have access to Mwaking, and Master Runes are inherently limited by everyone.

In this case there's obviously cutoff point when works can't be grouped up, but there's also obviously a difference in functionality between a system of say 100 Relay Rabits gronti vs a super fast Messenger gronti
 
You also need to remember that MRunes usually have rare and powerful ingredient requirements. Outside Runelords and other older and/or richer Runesmiths, most wouldn't be able to gather enough materials to make multiple of a single MRune, unless they are doing something for a Cult or a King is footing the bill/gathering.

Even Snorri needs decades to gather some stuff outside a monster hunt, and even then we have to roll for certain things. Snorri has an infinite money glitch with his Gromril mine. Imagine how hard it is for most smiths, with limited funds being eaten by research. They can't really do more than 1 MRune for most jobs.

Plus, from what I remember in the posts, aren't most Snorrist part of the younger crowd, like Journeymen and newish Master Runesmiths? No way most can pay for anything that good(our students don't count, outside Nain, they are all monsters in terms of skill)
 
One of the stuff that Snorri harped on very early on was that some Runes (like the RUne of Light) cannot be realistically used in a dawi society of any large size if you're too conservative on the Rule of PRide. There are ways around it, but Snorri himself doesn't care much about the Rule of Pride wrt to low level Runes. And this mentaility I think carries over to the Snorrists.

At any rate I think the most interesting thing about Snorrists is that it opens up single Rune Commisions for a large scale projects in other holds. Right now Kraka Drak Runed Throngs are based on Snorri's own output and are massively stronger than they should be, but its likely that every hold with some sizable group of Snorrists would start seeing larger than normal efficiency gains when simple Runes are created in relatively large quanitities.

That is not to say Runesmiths of this type aren't celebrated, but they'll be quietly rich in the background.

LordEdric said:
You also need to remember that MRunes usually have rare and powerful ingredient requirements. Outside Runelords and other older and/or richer Runesmiths, most wouldn't be able to gather enough materials to make multiple of a single MRune, unless they are doing something for a Cult or a King is footing the bill/gathering.

Even Snorri needs decades to gather some stuff outside a monster hunt, and even then we have to roll for certain things. Snorri has an infinite money glitch with his Gromril mine. Imagine how hard it is for most smiths, with limited funds being eaten by research. They can't really do more than 1 MRune for most jobs.

Plus, from what I remember in the posts, aren't most Snorrist part of the younger crowd, like Journeymen and newish Master Runesmiths? No way most can pay for anything that good(our students don't count, outside Nain, they are all monsters in terms of skill)
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It's also simpler in that Snorrists don't actively pursue learning Master Runes to begin with. It's likely that any Mrunes would be focussed on maintaining a high personal skill/crafting ability but that's like the bare minimum you'll need.

Fun tought Nain is one of those that is actively aiming for largescale (Quantity and Quality) infrastructure projects. It's likely that some part of the Snorrists ideals came from him or from observation of him
 
Evillevi said:
One of the stuff that Snorri harped on very early on was that some Runes (like the RUne of Light) cannot be realistically used in a dawi society of any large size if you're too conservative on the Rule of PRide. There are ways around it, but Snorri himself doesn't care much about the Rule of Pride wrt to low level Runes. And this mentaility I think carries over to the Snorrists.
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Yes but thats why I asked a clarifying question:
Dark as Silver said:
Do you mean like "I know I made 50 Gronti's with MWaking but actually tehy only count as 1 MWaking because they're a single work"?
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And your response, was not "No I meant they inherited Snorri's understanding."
It was:
Evillevi said:
In this case there's obviously cutoff point when works can't be grouped up, but there's also obviously a difference in functionality between a system of say 100 Relay Rabits gronti vs a super fast Messenger gronti
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And your functionality answer isn't Snorri's understanding of it.
But the Rule of Pride isn't commonly understood to apply to the functionality of a combo. It applies to the runes specifically and on each item individually.
So could we just revisit the clarifying question again? Where are we talking past each other here?
 
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