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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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UlseDovThur said:
Just had a thought. Is there a Rune that actively draws in the Winds to empower other Runes? And that's it?

Because our Rune of Siphoning draws up Deep Magic and that's all it does. If it wasn't on an item with other runes besides itself or other runic items nearby it really wouldn't do anything at all. It's purely there to act as an additional power source for other Runes.

But is there a Rune that does that, but for the Winds instead of Deep Magic? Closest would probably be Spelleating but that's pretty focused on absorbing particular concentrations of Magic like spells, right? It's targeted. Specific. Not just drawing on the ambient Winds in general.
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As you noted Spelleating is kind of the specific case. I think Spellbreaking is similar.

Snerra's Amplification is close as well, because it focuses on enhancing Rune Casting and makes dispelling easier in general. That's a piece of what you're looking for.

I don't think a rune that is directly equivalent to Siphoning currently exists, in part because it may be more efficient to amplify specific pieces like Rune Casting.
 
BungieONI said:
As you noted Spelleating is kind of the specific case. I think Spellbreaking is similar.

Snerra's Amplification is close as well, because it focuses on enhancing Rune Casting and makes dispelling easier in general. That's a piece of what you're looking for.

I don't think a rune that is directly equivalent to Siphoning currently exists, in part because it may be more efficient to amplify specific pieces like Rune Casting.
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I didn't think so. I think it's because the idea is so utterly basic. All Runes already draw on the Winds as both a base function and requirement of functioning at all.

The idea of a rune drawing on the Winds, which remember the Dawi were rather unaware of until very, very, recently as a concept, and doing nothing with the power it gathers simply never occurred to them.

I do think the idea has merit though.

Rune of Siphoning: Runes in radius of this Rune can slightly draw from the Deep Magic and recharge faster. Structural Only.

If this is what Siphoning can do when drawing on a stubborn and hard to gather energy like Deep Magic, I wonder what a Rune of Siphoning could do if it targeted the Winds which is a far more eager and easily gathered energy, even too easily and too eager in many cases as we know.
 
UlseDovThur said:
The fuck? No. Just a Rune of Siphoning, but for the Winds rather than Deep Magic. Probably the most basic bitch Rune ever conceived of. So utterly basic that it hasn't been made yet.

How did you even come to that conclusion?
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i
can understand a rune that does nothing but siphon the winds. Converting that into a compact/convenient form for other runes is another thing entirely. might require a battery.

So wind siphon rune> battery rune> charge rune?
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
i
can understand a rune that does nothing but siphon the winds. Converting that into a compact/convenient form for other runes is another thing entirely. might require a battery.

So wind siphon rune> battery rune> charge rune?
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It doesn't need to make the winds into a compact form though? Cut out the battery and charge runes you've got there. The Winds are omnipresent, there's no reason to store them for later when more can just be gathered on demand at any time.
 
UlseDovThur said:
It doesn't need to make the winds into a compact form though? Cut out the battery and charge runes you've got there. The Winds are omnipresent, there's no reason to store them for later when more can just be gathered on demand at any time.
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The winds are omnipresent, but not at a degree that matches the power we get from Deep magic taps. The feats are storm is currently pulling is generally relegated to Storms of Magic as far as sheer power goes. The vast majority of the time there is just not enough concentrated winds to match that in output.

For instance, for a rune that seems to pull on the winds to empower another rune, you have empowerment.
But it quickly depletes the reserves of magic around it and makes everything sluggish in the aftermath.

Every other faction also directly plugs there casters directly into the winds, and it hasn't turned into unlimited power taps for any of them so far either.

I don't think you can get the same quality and quantity of power tap out of the winds to compare to what we currently have for deep magic.
 
UlseDovThur said:
It doesn't need to make the winds into a compact form though? Cut out the battery and charge runes you've got there. The Winds are omnipresent, there's no reason to store them for later when more can just be gathered on demand at any time.
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Less a battery and more a capacitor then. Runes take time to recharge via direct wind.
If you're just looking for a rune to facilitate a better charging time, then why not something that can hold a hold a secondary emergency charge for any rune in the users equipment slots.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Less a battery and more a capacitor then. Runes take time to recharge via direct wind.
If you're just looking for a rune to facilitate a better charging time, then why not something that can hold a hold a secondary emergency charge for any rune in the users equipment slots.
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Well here's how I'm thinking of it. Normal runes are like sponges, they can absorb energy when in contact with it, and as the winds are omnipresent they're in constant contact thus can constantly absorb them, and can hold a certain amount within themselves but they don't really actively draw energy towards themselves. It's a very passive way of collecting energy.

Siphoning is like a water pump that draws up ground water. It's an active draw purposefully and actively pulling in the energy towards itself, right? There's a concerted effort made to pulling up the Deep Magic.

What I'm thinking is a rune that actively pulls the winds towards it rather than passively absorbing. If regular runes are sponges and Siphoning is a water pump, then what I'm talking about would be like a vacuum pump or air compressor.
Luxon said:
The winds are omnipresent, but not at a degree that matches the power we get from Deep magic taps. The feats are storm is currently pulling is generally relegated to Storms of Magic as far as sheer power goes. The vast majority of the time there is just not enough concentrated winds to match that in output.

For instance, for a rune that seems to pull on the winds to empower another rune, you have empowerment.
But it quickly depletes the reserves of magic around it and makes everything sluggish in the aftermath.

Every other faction also directly plugs there casters directly into the winds, and it hasn't turned into unlimited power taps for any of them so far either.

I don't think you can get the same quality and quantity of power tap out of the winds to compare to what we currently have for deep magic.
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I think Empowerment is more like a battery and/or a capacitor than a siphon. It absorbs the winds like every other rune and holds it, then dumps what it has quickly into other runes.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
Well here's how I'm thinking of it. Normal runes are like sponges, they can absorb energy when in contact with it, and as the winds are omnipresent they're in constant contact thus can constantly absorb them, and can hold a certain amount within themselves but they don't really actively draw energy towards themselves. It's a very passive way of collecting energy.

Siphoning is like a water pump that draws up ground water. It's an active draw purposefully and actively pulling in the energy towards itself, right? There's a concerted effort made to pulling up the Deep Magic.

What I'm thinking is a rune that actively pulls the winds towards it rather than passively absorbing. If regular runes are sponges and Siphoning is a water pump, then what I'm talking about would be like a vacuum pump or air compressor.
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Hmmm.

Thinking about it, I feel like a Rune of Empowering Runes is one of those things that Runesmiths have probably been trying to come up with when they have the time for a long while. The immediate obstacle that presents itself to me is that while they know that Runes pull in energy from outside, they still do not know what that energy is widely. Not knowing what it is could make it more difficult to isolate what part of their runes is pulling that energy in.

However, as demonstrated by Snorri's own research methods, they do have a tool that works: iterative change of strike patterns in the creation of runes. With this method they could possibly identify the bits that affect power draw. Once power draw is figured out, the problem becomes a matter of projection, and there are a number of runes and thus strike patterns that create fields, auras or projected effects. The lack of proliferation of such a rune indicates that for whatever reason, there are issues that still need to be resolved.
 
All this talk about a rune that siphons the winds to inpower other runes makes me wonder a other rune we maybe can pursue if it is possible

What about a rune or combo that brings true death to a daemon not simply a slaying/banisment but true end of the line never to be seen again death
 
BungieONI said:
Hmmm.

Thinking about it, I feel like a Rune of Empowering Runes is one of those things that Runesmiths have probably been trying to come up with when they have the time for a long while. The immediate obstacle that presents itself to me is that while they know that Runes pull in energy from outside, they still do not know what that energy is widely. Not knowing what it is could make it more difficult to isolate what part of their runes is pulling that energy in.

However, as demonstrated by Snorri's own research methods, they do have a tool that works: iterative change of strike patterns in the creation of runes. With this method they could possibly identify the bits that affect power draw. Once power draw is figured out, the problem becomes a matter of projection, and there are a number of runes and thus strike patterns that create fields, auras or projected effects. The lack of proliferation of such a rune indicates that for whatever reason, there are issues that still need to be resolved.
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Maybe, but if my analogy is on point, the vast majority of Runes don't have the ability to actively draw in the winds in the first place. Rather they passively absorb what's around and making contact with them. So even if the Runesmith tries the iterated change of strike method it won't amount to anything as the feature simply isn't present to strength/emphasize.

Nevermind with how fickle the Winds are on any given day any kind of incremental change in recharge times could very well just be chalked up to the ephemeral whimsy of Magic frustrating the effort even further.
 
Fenrir44 said:
All this talk about a rune that siphons the winds to inpower other runes makes me wonder a other rune we maybe can pursue if it is possible

What about a rune or combo that brings true death to a daemon not simply a slaying/banisment but true end of the line never to be seen again death
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A Rune of True Death is one of those runes speculated about in the lore of the setting, and its one of those things the thread has wondered about at some length. We suspect that both Grimnir and Gazul's ancestor runes would be involved somewhere along the way, but from what I recall there's not a great deal of leads besides multiple iterations and Combo Compressions using those runes and the already extant Daemonslaying and Chaosslaying runes.
 
BungieONI said:
Hmmm.

Thinking about it, I feel like a Rune of Empowering Runes is one of those things that Runesmiths have probably been trying to come up with when they have the time for a long while. The immediate obstacle that presents itself to me is that while they know that Runes pull in energy from outside, they still do not know what that energy is widely. Not knowing what it is could make it more difficult to isolate what part of their runes is pulling that energy in.

However, as demonstrated by Snorri's own research methods, they do have a tool that works: iterative change of strike patterns in the creation of runes. With this method they could possibly identify the bits that affect power draw. Once power draw is figured out, the problem becomes a matter of projection, and there are a number of runes and thus strike patterns that create fields, auras or projected effects. The lack of proliferation of such a rune indicates that for whatever reason, there are issues that still need to be resolved.
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If there where a single strike pattern responsible for power draw, Runesmiths attempting to make the amplification rune would probably have already identified in t because it would be present in all Runes.
One of the difficulties of Rune magic is that common features are really rare and it takes centuries of experience to find those that are present.
This is one of the down sides of the runes as machines metaphor, if they really could be broken down into consistent shared sub runes and then rebuilt up then crafting specific runes as desired then dwarves would have solved the problem already. And it would no longer be the realm of the Perfect Runesmith instead any master with the skill to make each component and a dictionary of different sub runes could do it.
 
soulcake said:
and went against every instinct
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Add 'his' after 'against'
soulcake said:
pressing his axe in Bardul's hands
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into
soulcake said:
and countless innocent lives confound and
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Add a comma after 'lives', confounds
soulcake said:
trapped weapons with a hammer of molten rock and a hammer made from lightning
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I'm pretty sure one of those hammers should be an axe
soulcake said:
her Will on Winds despite the stilling
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Add 'the' after 'on'
soulcake said:
her enemy has on it
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them, as she is talking about the Winds here
soulcake said:
hundred heavily armoured living Ancestors
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The 'Living' is usually capitalised in 'Living Ancestor'
soulcake said:
the Fimir desperately scrabbles to remove the
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scrambles
soulcake said:
day did not mean you wanted it to
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Remove 'it'
soulcake said:
exposed muscle rippling as it picks up speed towards her
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Remove 'towards her' as it is already stated earlier
soulcake said:
its already wretched odour hit her nose and engulf her face
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hitting, engulfing
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Is there a Fimirbane rune? Or do they fall under chaos/beastmen/daemons?
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By my read.
Unlikely to be a specific rune to single them out yet. This is the first major dwarven campaign where they have been the primary opponent rather than just tag alongs to a larger chaos horde. They have just never been big enough before to be the focus.

They won't fall under daemon slaying from its stated effect, it disrupts the corporeal forms of a demon, whereas the Fimir are already physical entities in the first place, (bar perhaps their most mutated members stepping into the realms of a daemon prince.)

They would fall under general chaos runes, if we knew any of those.
 
BungieONI said:
A Rune of True Death is one of those runes speculated about in the lore of the setting, and its one of those things the thread has wondered about at some length. We suspect that both Grimnir and Gazul's ancestor runes would be involved somewhere along the way, but from what I recall there's not a great deal of leads besides multiple iterations and Combo Compressions using those runes and the already extant Daemonslaying and Chaosslaying runes.
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Mrune of Purification + Daemonslaying + Gazul
is what I remember.

Purification for unmaking/purifying Magicstuff,
daemonslaying to key it towards those entities
Gazul because of his relation to death and role as protector of the dwarven race from nameless horrors and unmaker of fate.

No need for multiple compressions.
 
Aventur said:
Mrune of Purification + Daemonslaying + Gazul
is what I remember.

Purification for unmaking/purifying Magicstuff,
daemonslaying to key it towards those entities
Gazul because of his relation to death and role as protector of the dwarven race from nameless horrors and unmaker of fate.

No need for multiple compressions.
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Its a possible option, but reliable True Death is a concept that would ripple through the metaphysics of the setting. It is currently, the realm of the Ancestor Gods to do it with the tools to hand and we're not even 100% sure on that.

My point being that its a Tier 5 kind of effect and so I expect that compressions will be required. Purification + Daemonslaying + Gazul is definitely a good start.

Dark as Silver said:
If there where a single strike pattern responsible for power draw, Runesmiths attempting to make the amplification rune would probably have already identified in t because it would be present in all Runes.
One of the difficulties of Rune magic is that common features are really rare and it takes centuries of experience to find those that are present.
This is one of the down sides of the runes as machines metaphor, if they really could be broken down into consistent shared sub runes and then rebuilt up then crafting specific runes as desired then dwarves would have solved the problem already. And it would no longer be the realm of the Perfect Runesmith instead any master with the skill to make each component and a dictionary of different sub runes could do it.
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This is a good point! The elements in runes which cause power draw may not be the same, you're right there. It's an interesting thought, and I quite like it.
 
BungieONI said:
My point being that its a Tier 5 kind of effect and so I expect that compressions will be required. Purification + Daemonslaying + Gazul is definitely a good start.
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The project we got from Gazul should be a good start.

He is the God of Death of the Dawi and the concept we got from him was about denying the Strings of Fate.

Strings that demand the Daemons do not die.
 
BungieONI said:
Its a possible option, but reliable True Death is a concept that would ripple through the metaphysics of the setting. It is currently, the realm of the Ancestor Gods to do it with the tools to hand and we're not even 100% sure on that.

My point being that its a Tier 5 kind of effect and so I expect that compressions will be required. Purification + Daemonslaying + Gazul is definitely a good start.
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What about that one rune idea from earlier of siphoning the winds could that applie to a rune of true death as well daemons are literally made from the winds of magic

Perhaps somehow a combination of that rune idea with a purifaction rune could also be of help in creating that game changer
 
Fenrir44 said:
What about that one rune idea from earlier of siphoning the winds could that applie to a rune of true death as well daemons are literally made from the winds of magic

Perhaps somehow a combination of that rune idea with a purifaction rune could also be of help in creating that game changer
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We haven't researched Siphoning fully yet and this sounds more like an offensively adjusted combo as much as what I'd actually expect out of a Siphoning weapon rune
 
LightLan said:
The project we got from Gazul should be a good start.

He is the God of Death of the Dawi and the concept we got from him was about denying the Strings of Fate.

Strings that demand the Daemons do not die.
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I was already disappointed it was a Fate rune because when it spoke about Ties I voted on the impression it was connections between people, but now that we are a walking talking volcanic storm I'm really sad we didn't grab Fire.
 
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