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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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The other take away I have from this fight is that probably no other dwarf in the throng is a peer combatant to a Meargh. Based on this I think that he needs to stay with the campaign as long as it lasts.
 
The other take away I have from this fight is that probably no other dwarf in the throng is a peer combatant to a Meargh. Based on this I think that he needs to stay with the campaign as long as it lasts.
Meargh should only be on cities so as long there not assaulting a city it should be fine to let throng handle it. Also MulTile hero unots working together likr againsy sun eayer should work as well.
 
Meargh should only be on cities so as long there not assaulting a city it should be fine to let throng handle it. Also MulTile hero unots working together likr againsy sun eayer should work as well.

There's nothing stopping a Meargh coming out and attacking the throng in the field.

There's also no guarantee that we'll outnumber the enemy so dwarven heroes can team up against them. They can bring their own heroes; monsters, and bound greater demons with them as well. Part of Snorri's advantage was that he had his own greater daemon equivalent to deal with her retinue. And that greater daemon was also effectively wearing a mythic quality set of runic gear.

Kholek was also. singular building sized monster. Fimir are big but nowhere near that big. It's much harder to concentrate force against one of them.
 
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Another thing to take from the chapter is on how we were detected long before we did the drop. That is probably the result of us being a Conduit of the Earth.
 
Meargh should only be on cities so as long there not assaulting a city it should be fine to let throng handle it.
I think they might join regular fighting.
Another thing to take from the chapter is on how we were detected long before we did the drop. That is probably the result of us being a Conduit of the Earth.
Snorri pumps out ridiculous amount of power, so yeah. Anything with magesight can see him. But i think in this case the defences rallied fast because of the ludicriously thick aerial screens of harpies.
 
What i find funny is that daemons apparently know who we are. Apparently our deeds echo in the immaterium.
We stubornly stood in the path of destiny and changed the history of the world. The Northern Karaks were not supposed to remain whole. The Suneater was supposed to overwhelm us and cut the Karak Ankor in two.

OF COURSE Chaos has noticed. We defied fate. We fought against rage. We denied temptation. We refused to crumble.

We stand against everything Chaos stands for.

Yeah no more Snorri airstrikes. They'll have flak next time

No, see, we just need to do some prepwork. Perhaps an armored metal box designed to be dropped from great heights. We can design the sides to pop open upon landing. We can even cover the box in runes of impact and safety so that the occupants don't suffer the great crash of impact. We can then load ourself and a select group of Hearthguard to strike deep behind enemy lines.
 
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Yeah no more Snorri airstrikes. They'll have flak next time

It means we either undermine and have the ground erupt beneath them, or march straight through defences that have part of their strength diverted away to try to stop an Aerial assault that never came. Snorri never sticking to one way of winning Sieges, out of cautiousness that the Enemy is able to learn from past tactics probably would affirm his reputation of nearly paranoid caution.

A lot of its to do with writing "Snorri kills Meargh uber dead" in a way that's more compelling than wanky

I don't actually mind reading a good curbstomp scene myself, and from what I am seeing of the rolls and the analysis made of it, part of the reason why it was so one-sided was because the Meargh's demons turned against her. It drives home the point Chaos often is its own worst enemy. But perhaps the question is not really the Meargh being uber dead, but rather what lessons Snorri takes away from this victory, especially since this is just the first city.

No, see, we just need to do some prepwork. Perhaps a metal box designed to be dropped from great heights. We can design the sides to pop open upon landing. We can even cover the box in runes of impact and safety so that the occupants don't suffer the great crash of impact. We can then load ourself and a select group of Hearthguard to strike deep behind enemy lines.

Dawi Santa's Sleigh of Retribution. If we go down the Weight tree, we can even strap runes that alter the weight of the Sledge - light in the hands of a Barna, and extremely heavy when it falls upon the enemy. Let the force of gravity clear the LZ for us. :V
 
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X
It means we either undermine and have the ground erupt beneath them, or march straight through defences that have part of their strength diverted away to try to stop an Aerial assault that never came. Snorri never sticks to one way of winning Sieges, out of cautiousness that the Enemy is able to learn from past tactics probably would affirm his reputation of nearly paranoid caution.



I don't actually mind reading a good curbstomp scene myself, and from what I am seeing of the rolls and the analysis made of it, part of the reason why it was so one-sided was because the Meargh's demons turned against her. It drives home the point Chaos often is its own worst enemy. But perhaps the question is not really the Meargh being uber dead, but rather what lessons Snorri takes away from this victory, especially since this is just the first city.



Dawi Santa's Sleigh of Retribution. If we go down the Weight tree, we can even strap runes that alter the weight of the Sledge - light in the hands of a Barna, and extremely heavy when it falls upon the enemy. Let the force of gravity clear the LZ for us. :V
Not a sleigh. I am thinking something a little more purpose built.

 
Daemons going like "we out of hereee!"
Yeah no more Snorri airstrikes. They'll have flak next time
maybe we can drop a distraction and while they're fighting that thing, we can crush the front lines.
X

Not a sleigh. I am thinking something a little more purpose built.

Looks like a sleigh to me.:p

Subtext(We're all WH/Scifi fans here. Of course we know you were talking about droppods/ ODST)
 
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It *is* kind of hilarious that all her demons immediately went for her throat. And with that changing of ways screwing her over so bad... Yeah, seems like depending on demons for power might be a *bad* idea. Who'd have thought? It's pretty impressive she was able to cast at all through Snorri's disruption, that could have been pretty dangerous if she'd had a chance at the throng. Also, can I just say that the visual of her ceiling being shattered open only for a tide of dead, mostly skeletal harpies to pour through is just, so incredible. But yeah, someday we're gonna come across a bloodthirster or something that can take Snorri in melee combat without needing gear and it's gonna be such a tremendous slog of a fight. Hopefully we'll have a giant gromril dragon mount or something by then. Wonder if Skulltaker is running around this early in the setting? He probably wouldn't *like* having his gear damaged, but he would probably be a real threat.
 
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The takeaway is that we need something that can throw us all the way at the next meargh at high speed on a ballistic trajectory and break through any shields they may have (preferably from far enough away that they go from not even sensing us to kool-aid Snorri in seconds) and that going underground will only work if we don't go into the tunnel until ready (under the assumption that they can sense Snorri underground too and that digging a tunnel takes longer than dropping from a few hundred meters).
 
The takeaway is that we need something that can throw us all the way at the next meargh at high speed on a ballistic trajectory and break through any shields they may have (preferably from far enough away that they go from not even sensing us to kool-aid Snorri in seconds) and that going underground will only work if we don't go into the tunnel until ready (under the assumption that they can sense Snorri underground too and that digging a tunnel takes longer than dropping from a few hundred meters).
We do have a giant golem...

I believe when an adamantine reinforced regenerator is thrown by a large mineral based ally it is called a "fast ball special".
 
The things here which made her particularly vulnerable to Snorri's nonsense is how her Nurgle Amulet was structured, how her Changing of the Ways special rule worked, and how her baseline bonus was 10 points below Snorri's so she was already working at a disadvantage.

Meargh rolls Changing of the Ways every round, 1d18 where 1 is -40, 9 and 10 are +0, 18 is +40 with the other numbers going by increments of 5. 1 is -40, 2 is -35, 3 is -30 etc etc. Her starting disadvantage of -10 compared to Snorri means she needs to roll a 12 on a d18 to break even with Snorri.

This disadvantage was made even worse by the large penalty range on her Changing of the Ways special rule; it meant that she needed to roll higher on a d18 to get anything helpful out of it. Every 5 points she is below Snorri literally makes it more unlikely for her to get any bonus out of Changing of the Ways, and makes it easier for even a mediocre roll on Changing of the Ways to screw her.

Love your analysis, but regarding the Meargh's items, it believe it the Changer of the Ways should be accounted for as an inseparable part of the Staff she wielded.
Said staff giving her a '+20 Tzeentch Staff' base level bonus (and +15 to magic rounds but this isn't about that).

So any given round of combat, a roll of 5 or higher on a D18 means the staff is neutral effect or better overall, than not having it.
The ability absolutely has a chance of being debilitating, but lacking the ability would equal lacking the staff, which would place her at an even greater disadvantage since her base bonus would not be -10 compared to Snorri, it would be -30.
Likewise, going the other way around. She had an equal chance of the staff providing a massive total bonus of +45 or greater, up to a maximum of +60.
That's is potentially half our entire bonus statline right there in a single item.
It's potentially insane, is what it is.
Which, playing double-or-nothing with a Tzeentch themed staff of sorcery, is pretty much on point I feel.

Anyway, just my two cents that came to mind when seeing your comprehensive post.
 
Dont worry soul writers Block is a bitch on the mind we all know and it sometines happens and a good curb stomp is nice to read when it makes sense as it does for snorri with what he is packing
 
It really sucks to be heavily dependant on magic items when the guy who destroys magic items by hitting in their vague direction or looking at them with his evil eye is your enemy.

She would have needed some hard crits right at the beginning when she had her full boni to even have a chance.
That eye. It's amazing. I find it hard to decide if it's as good as Snorri's top tier equiptment of a single level below.
Yeah the Meargh was bullshit in her own way. It's just we've more or less specced Snorri to be the bane of casters and enemies that rely on magic items. And even then Snorri wasn't able to fully prevent her from casting her magic.

She was not weak. And the next Meargh will likely be significantly more prepared.
I expect the chaos gods will ask questions of those demons that were in the battle and the next Meargh will be informed of Snorri's strength's/weaknesses: at a glance; breaks magic items/relativly poor fighter.

Also, I have the impression he's not great at preventing a number of the foes on the level he fights at from just punting him a few hundred meters and then fleeing.
----
For combat going forward, not that we have the time in any way; what I'd like (in the daydream sense) is gear that links to Snorri's items that gives elite tier comrades immunity to his DoT or some sort of gravity based spacewarpting portal/teleport.

Airdrops are not going to be surprising next time.
 
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Wonder if any tribal humans in viewing distance noticed and (in the future) place any significance on a silver comet and the end of the fimir? And as for her being able to cast well still, reminder that anti magic from our amulet is the most neglected part of our kit, after the axe. We really should craft something to replace the amulet and axe even if they're just place holders for the mythic level stuff in the future, our modifiers were too close for comfort.
 
Wonder if any tribal humans in viewing distance noticed and (in the future) place any significance on a silver comet and the end of the fimir? And as for her being able to cast well still, reminder that anti magic from our amulet is the most neglected part of our kit, after the axe. We really should craft something to replace the amulet and axe even if they're just place holders for the mythic level stuff in the future, our modifiers were too close for comfort.

From what we know it's several thousand years until humans reach Norsca.
 
It does make me a bit concerned that a Maergh this early on was this strong. At base she had an equal base combat modifier of 135. We had an extra +10 thanks to the grudge and the equipment destroying aspect of our gear really carried the fight.

But against anyone else that isn't Snorri she's would have been just as unstoppable against the throng as Snorri is against the Fimir army.
 
That eye. It's amazing. I find it hard to decide if it's as good as Snorri's top tier equiptment of a single level below.
I can kinda answer that,
Because of a lack of set and BA synergy its a half step below Zharrgal which itself is a step below the top tier.

15 with BA Zharrgal + 20 Barak Azamar + 15 The Earth Shadow + 25 with BA Skarrenbakraz + 15 Set bonus +10 Eye of the Ancestors
Zharrgal and Skarrenbakraz both got a free +5 for BA synergy, otherwise the tiering was +10 for a Legendary and +20 for a Mythic item.

Depending on how you interpret this:
every round deal 1 damage to equipment regardless, roll DC 30,40,45 to add 1 damage depending on item quality.
It may have had twice the item breaking effect of Zharrgal which would maybe make it better.
Personally I think its the cumulative effect of both items however and shouldn't be treated seperately.

The most important thing about the Eye I think is that A) It was free, B) depending on how you interpreted soulcakes statements it may be a free +1 to our normal equipment limit which if true will significantly elevate it after we have a full loadout.

I think depending on your opinions and interpretations of partial data, you can make reasonable arguments about if its superior or not to Zhargall. However...
I think its safe to say thats its worse than both our Mythics by a significant margin, aside from their higher base increases, which are actually a bare minimum estimate as they give additional in The Earth Shadow trait and BA boosts.
Bungie has already shown how Regen doubles Snorris effective health pool against significantly more powerful enemies and that doesn't consider their effects in giving additional wounds. And Skarren was effectively another slowly growing bonus as it passively killed the Mearghs backup choir.
E: Wait the proc chance was from the eye:
Eye Round 1
DC 40: 34
No proc
I think that eliminates the argument that its better than Zharrgal given the current context of our other equipment (better stats, set bonus and not currently capped)
E:
It does make me a bit concerned that a Maergh this early on was this strong. At base she had an equal base combat modifier of 135. We had an extra +10 thanks to the grudge and the equipment destroying aspect of our gear really carried the fight.

But against anyone else that isn't Snorri she's would have been just as unstoppable against the throng as Snorri is against the Fimir army.
Thats basically their racial build, they punch way above their weight due to overcharged however fragile items from Daemon smithing.
Against a archetypical Runelord, the Meargh should have a higher bonus and it would be a test of the dwarfs ability to resist the sheer power of the sorcerer until they've weakened the magic and items enough that they can turn the tide.
This gal got unlucky to meet the Oldest Runelord in the North who can nearly match her in a contest of power (fewer wounds and regen) and brought multiple items to accelerate her items decay.
I don't think we really appreciated this before seeing this combat break down
 
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