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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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TimEd said:
Unlikely. I assume journeyman trials would only enable you to learn from a really limited number of other master runesmiths (probably just 1, but maybe there are socialite dwarven runesmiths? weirder things have happened), and being taught by said master runesmith is another thing entirely. Being taught a master rune like what happened to Fjolla? Probably another couple levels of difficuly higher.

What we do know is that Snorri travelled a heck of a lot in his journeyman trials. I think "frantically searching for inspiration" was used.
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There's also a possibility that some Runesmiths do what Snorri is doing with the Rune of Forged Limb:

Snorri's criteria is simply "Master Runesmiths"
Gottri Hammerspite's criteria is "pass this trial". Climbing a mountain in adverse circumstances is just as politically impartial a selection criteria as Snorri's.
Then there's also Gemma Diamondeyes ... she'll take a Runesmith under her wing. If they impress her, but she's picky as a 1.5k year old dwarf can get (which Fjolla managed to do)
 
I've looked through last few turns, and when compiled Hearth Guard luck and performance is atrocious compared to heights they are capable of. Since turn 34, there is not a single roll above 50.

TURN 34
- Retainer: 99
TURN 35
- Retainers: 10
TURN 36
- Retainers: 38
TURN 37
- Lost and Found: 27
- Dreng Them: 13
TURN 38
- Elderly Expertise: 14
- Deep Surveying: 50

It's bound to weight on them rather heavily. It's not failure, really. But underperforming for so long and so consistently is type of failure on its own. At least in eyes of dawi.
 
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Czes said:
I'm at chapter 6 or so of that particular hell. I don't know wether I should continue or not... Are 90 chapters of grinding in the dark worth it?
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Speaking as someone who only recently read that portion, you can skim them without missing too much, but there are some genuine moments of awesome in there.

DiceOfStupidity said:
I've looked through last few turns, and when compiled Hearth Guard luck and performance is atrocious compared to heights they are capable of. Since turn 34, there is not a single roll above 50.

TURN 34
- Retainer: 99
TURN 35
- Retainers: 10
TURN 36
- Retainers: 38
TURN 37
- Lost and Found: 27
- Dreng Them: 13
TURN 38
- Elderly Expertise: 14
- Deep Surveying: 50

It's bound to weight on them rather heavily. It's not failure, really. But underperforming for so long and so consistently is type of failure on its own. At least in eyes of dawi.
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On the other hand, the fact that our utterly ridiculous +35 bonus has allowed us to do this well despite such bad luck says a lot about the kind of quality unit the Hearth Guard is.
 
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kinglugia said:
Speaking of which, do you think that's how Snorri manages to learn some of the other Runes in his repertoire during his Journeyman days? Completing trials set by various other well-established Master Runesmiths and Runelords?
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This might be where some of Yorri's genius/insanity in teaching methods comes in. Snorri might have had a barebones foundation but he probably had a bunch of weird/exotic runes he could trade to a lot of different journeyman for the basic stuff he's missing.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Do you have a source of WoG where soulcake has commented on how long we can expect it to be or is this your personal analysis?
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...Do you not see the word estimated in that post? Or the eight other posts where I talk about where those numbers come from? Because I've mentioned it on what was a practically unbroken string of pages at this point.
kobo said:
Maybe don't make assumptions about how long Rune metal part 5 is until we've at least done the current one which requires three actions? Claiming it will take 70 years when we've just done gromril chain which people were thinking was going to be a much longer process but turned out to be shorter than expected to get serviceable results feels like a blatant attempt to bias people against pursuing the process, when a simple 3 actions in one turn will tell us a lot more about how long it will take to get serviceable results.
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It's, literally derived from the action costs of the adamant action chain and is a shorter length of time than it would have taken us to do adamant back in the day (if the second action chain being shorter in a relative action sense discourages you I don't know what to say) if we had decided to do it all in one go rather than spreading it out and as seen by the multiple posts made on the subject I'm not against doing the action I'm against doing it instead of alchemy although I'm for doing it alongside alchemy because you only need two actions spent on it to make it efficient meaning its perfect to slot in during alchemy training turns.
 
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ArchAIngel said:
I'm not expecting all the Standing meters to be unlocked by doing Gromril Chain, just because it would be a huge pain in the arse for poor Soulcake. I know, I know, I know. Meta-argument. That's bad. I know. But as a fellow QM, if offsite, I know how mass updates suck. So to be clearer: "I would like to unlock the specific meter for Karak Kadrin because Karak Kadrin is a very important place."
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When you say "to grab Skrundaz and the Az comissions, and spend the in-between time poking Gromril Chain." that reads like grabbing them and doing chain part 3 before them, which I don't think you mean?

Personally on my end unlocking the standing meters doesn't really grab me very much. I am basically disconnected from that set of mechanics. All I'm really interested in is exploring runes and interesting projects honestly at this point.
 
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Sir LagsAlot said:
...Do you not see the word estimated in that post? Or the eight other posts where I talk about where those numbers come from? Because I've mentioned it on what was a practically unbroken string of pages at this point.

It's, literally derived from the action costs of the adamant action chain and is a shorter length of time than it would have taken us to do adamant back in the day (if the second action chain being shorter in a relative action sense discourages you I don't know what to say) if we had decided to do it all in one go rather than spreading it out and as seen by the multiple posts made on the subject I'm not against doing the action I'm against doing it instead of alchemy although I'm for doing it alongside alchemy because you only need two actions spent on it to make it efficient meaning its perfect to slot in during alchemy training turns.
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That all read like you were estimating the action cost of each step of a chain of known length. I meant if you had a source for how long the rest of the chain will be.
But if I'm not forgetting something could you at least lay out your expectations for what the rest of the chain will cover? We've got a reasonable estimate on how much the actions will cost as I think they've been on a constant arithmetic trend, the uncertainty is in the chain length.

As I see it we could be looking at Glimril within the next action or two, and auto production won't be possible.
Or we could have Glimril in the same time frame but then there will
I find it hard to see it being more than three steps but I could see it requiring Understand Purification.

Given that in every previous step as far as I can remember, each step in the chain has given us a definite gain, could you layout what you believe remaining milestones will be.
 
Dark as Silver said:
That all read like you were estimating the action cost of each step of a chain of known length. I meant if you had a source for how long the rest of the chain will be.
But if I'm not forgetting something could you at least lay out your expectations for what the rest of the chain will cover? We've got a reasonable estimate on how much the actions will cost as I think they've been on a constant arithmetic trend, the uncertainty is in the chain length.

As I see it we could be looking at Glimril within the next action or two, and auto production won't be possible.
Or we could have Glimril in the same time frame but then there will
I find it hard to see it being more than three steps but I could see it requiring Understand Purification.

Given that in every previous step as far as I can remember, each step in the chain has given us a definite gain, could you layout what you believe remaining milestones will be.
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The numbers are just following the trend for the adamant chain action costs and it came from just copy and pasting the action chain for adamant I've mentioned this more than a few times at this point. If it's only three steps it drops down from seventy years to fifty to sixty depending on the requirements.

And based on the last chain this chain should go Prove it Exists -> Working Prototype -> Manual Production -> Automated Production following the pattern for adamant that should take seventy years worth of actions stripping out the last one drops it down to fifty adding just about any barrier to the process bumps it up to sixty and having the full chain plus an extra requirement bumps it up to eighty so at worst it should take us as long as the original adamant chain and at best close to half the time.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
The numbers are just following the trend for the adamant chain action costs and it came from just copy and pasting the action chain for adamant I've mentioned this more than a few times at this point. If it's only three steps it drops down from seventy years to fifty to sixty depending on the requirements.

And based on the last chain this chain should go Prove it Exists -> Working Prototype -> Manual Production -> Automated Production following the pattern for adamant that should take seventy years worth of actions stripping out the last one drops it down to fifty adding just about any barrier to the process bumps it up to sixty and having the full chain plus an extra requirement bumps it up to eighty so at worst it should take us as long as the original adamant chain and at best close to half the time.
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I'm expecting alchemy to allow us to merge manual and automated production chains; though I think that in light of that we probably actually will need alchemy to actually produce it in any reasonable quantities without serious blowback.
 
Czes said:
I'm at chapter 6 or so of that particular hell. I don't know wether I should continue or not... Are 90 chapters of grinding in the dark worth it?
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Other people have already weighed in, but I wanna try to explain why my answer is "yes" a bit so you can assess if you think that would apply to you. I don't want to (let myself) go into it TOO much, so off the top of my head one of the reasons I liked it is kinda the same reason people say they didn't? There are a LOT of CKII ruler quests, but there are definitely not a lot of Mountain Vietnams illustrating just why retaking a dwarf Hold is such a daunting task. There's only one other example that I personally know at least (DL), and the very different characters and Hold involved in that made it quite distinct as well. And personally I enjoyed that novelty.

I will also say, I think a BIG factor is probably the difference between getting something live and getting to binge it once complete. I follow more than one web serial and the like, and there have absolutely been sequences in those that I felt (and were widely felt by the fandom) to be dragging on way too long when the chapters were being released, but when I've gone back and read it through with that whole book already complete the pacing actually isn't bad at all. And I think that might be part of the situation with how people talk about the Karak Ungor sequence of Dynamic Alcoholism. Karak Ungor has some of the most epic fights and Moments of Awesome in the quest, so personally I felt like my time reading it was well-spent.
 
@Verdom @TehChron @BelligerentGnu @Fayhem

Thanks for your responses and of course to everybody else I might have missed. I guess I'll pick it up again at the end of next week, after I have finished my last exam for this semester.

For now I have to binge read German literature and dream of verses and metric instead of doomspheres.

Woe is me.
 
ArchAIngel said:
I'm not expecting all the Standing meters to be unlocked by doing Gromril Chain, just because it would be a huge pain in the arse for poor Soulcake. I know, I know, I know. Meta-argument. That's bad. I know. But as a fellow QM, if offsite, I know how mass updates suck. So to be clearer: "I would like to unlock the specific meter for Karak Kadrin because Karak Kadrin is a very important place."
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I don't expect him to show every Standing meter, because that would probably make him cry. I'm expecting something like a universal +1 or +2 that effects all dwarven standing, which is added to standing bars once we unlock them.
 
The fact the he's not asking the Runelord of his own hold should show how serious this is. The political implications of this act alone are staggering. Snerra would never get that commission, if only because of her age and the fact that the King would forgoe his own holds Runelord for a girl in her third century.

Even if I don't like the consequences on our action economy, I can't help but be amazed at the opportunity presented to us.

The armors we are currently making and the engineers guild's request pale in comparison.
 
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It's also 1 action so we have MUCH less time taken up making the axe than would be taken up doing the Cult stuff.
 
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