RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Void Stalker · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
Rune metal part five won't get us T5 metal it's the start of the chain to unlock it just like the very first part of the chain was the very start of unlocking adamant so we won't actually be getting our hands on T5 adamant for a very, very long time considering the estimated action costs for the rest of the chain.

For, the adamant smelter it boils down to me not wanting to wait for twenty more turns to build the Grimnir gronti I'd rather spend a couple of actions and bump that forwards like at least five turns if not more depending on how much adamant we use in the mean time.

Rune Metal Pt 5 is the first part of the T5 section of the rune metal chain and should give us an idea of what we need to start making some, with later steps to make some consistently and then to figure out a way to make more of it based on adamant. So it is pretty important to grab to figure out what we need to do in terms of additional research and for ordering materials. And T5 gromil is going to be a much slower rate of acquisition even once we max it so the sooner we get it the sooner we can start actually using it for the very important commissions (and our 2nd weapon, talisman and banner)

Adamant smelter is useful in its own right since I expect T5 gromil to take adamant to make. Not to mention allows us further use of it on lesser comissions

Jreengus · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
If you want to play around with flexibility I did create this table for solely that purpose.

Actions Turn 39
Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due, and Gnolbarag Lost
Turn 41
Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
Turn 43 - Skrundaz Lost Turn 44 - Az-Dreugi Lost Turn 45 - Gnolbarag Due, and Skrundaz Due Turn 46 - Az-Dreugi Due
AP 1 Basket Armoured Maidens Grave Wardens

Grave Wardens
Eltharin ??? (Akazit) ??? (Akazit) ??? (Alchemy)
AP 2 Basket

Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens

Grave Wardens
Eltharin ??? (Akazit) ??? (Akazit) ??? (Alchemy)
AP 3 Basket

Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens
Grave Wardens
Eltharin ??? (Akazit) ??? (Akazit) ??? (Alchemy)
AP 4 Basket

Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens Grave Wardens ??? (Odd Places) ??? ??? ???
AP 5 Hold Founding Hold Founding Rhunkalbrogg ??? (Defense in Depth) ??? (Odd Places) ??? ??? ???

Doesn't, matter if part 5 is six actions as part 6 will be twelve, part seven will be twenty-four, and part eight will fifteen before we get our hands on some T5 adamant.

I didn't realise how tight our timing with the axe/pickaxe are my current hope would be something like:

Actions	Turn 39	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due, and Gnolbarag Lost	Turn 41	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due	Turn 43 - Skrundaz Lost	Turn 44 - Az-Dreugi Lost	Turn 45 - Gnolbarag Due, and Skrundaz Due	Turn 46 - Az-Dreugi Due
AP 1	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	Odd Material 9	Skrundaz Part 2	Az-Dreugi Part 2
AP 2	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	Odd Material 10	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Part 2
AP 3	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	Odd Material 9/10 maybe, otherwise flex space	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Part 2
AP 4	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Odd Place 9	Odd Material 9/10 maybe, otherwise flex space	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Part 2
AP 5	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Rhunkalbrogg	Defense in Depth	Odd Place 10	Skrundaz Part 1	Az-Dreugi Part 1	Az-Dreugi Part 2

Which wouldn't even let us finish Akazit until like turn 47. We could get it done 46 if I dropped the actions spent on Az-Dreugi Part 2 down to 2 I guess, maybe we could do 3 on Az Dreugi depending on what the Master of the Odd trait gives us and the number of actions odd materials 9/10 take.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

Void Stalker said:
Rune Metal Pt 5 is the first part of the T5 section of the rune metal chain and should give us an idea of what we need to start making some, with later steps to make some consistently and then to figure out a way to make more of it based on adamant. So it is pretty important to grab to figure out what we need to do in terms of additional research and for ordering materials. And T5 gromil is going to be a much slower rate of acquisition even once we max it so the sooner we get it the sooner we can start actually using it for the very important commissions (and our 2nd weapon, talisman and banner)

It's also an extremely developed research tree compared to alchemy which we'd have only finished two actions in at that point so alchemy will most likely offer massive discoveries as well for fewer actions that's why I think we shouldn't just swap back over to rune metal as soon as we've finished the first two stages of alchemy I don't expect it to be done (I expect we'll have picked over the bare basics) as we'd have pretty much only finished its equivalent of rune metal part 1 and part 2. Besides everything T5 metal is applicable to alchemy will be applicable to as well plus more.

Edit: I'm willing to slot rune metal into spare slots of alchemy turns but until we progress alchemy more I don't want to progress rune metal with the possible exception of finishing 3B.

MrHobbit · Feb 12, 2021

Jreengus said:
Which wouldn't even let us finish Akazit until like turn 47. We could get it done 46 if I dropped the actions spent on Az-Dreugi Part 2 down to 2 I guess, maybe we could do 3 on Az Dreugi depending on what the Master of the Odd trait gives us and the number of actions odd materials 9/10 take.

I'm honestly inclined to not go for the Az Dreugi. It would be awesome to make, but there are so many shinies to poke.

Byzantine · Feb 12, 2021

Alchemy will probably help rune metal anyway, given they appear to be related.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

I will laugh if we do Akazit and it unlocks pt2, and then like 5 extra branches of mat sci. Like a research project for every mat sci we want to enhance. Every odd places gets a new alchemy research option. The research pit must GROW.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

The commissions are cool and all but I'd have to be convinced to do them I'm not married to not doing any I'm willing to do one but I'm pretty much married to not doing more than one commission at this point as there's simply too much stuff to poke in my opinion although this should change again after we finish alchemy.

Jreengus · Feb 12, 2021

MrHobbit said:
I'm honestly inclined to not go for the Az Dreugi. It would be awesome to make, but there are so many shinies to poke.

Seeing it actually laid out does nudge me more that way, it feels awful to pass up the opportunity but it also feels like we take it we really should go all out and that means delaying doing Akazit which also feels really bad.

Either way the more I think about it the more I really like the two AP Skrundaz, it's an important item but it also feels a lot less important that most of the stuff we make. To me it's a low pressure opportunity to experiment with some runes and try and make something cool while also acknowleding that it's fine to only put in the minimum actions and it doesn't matter too much if the combo doesn't work.

Woltaire · Feb 12, 2021

Jreengus said:
Seeing it actually laid out does nudge me more that way, it feels awful to pass up the opportunity but it also feels like we take it we really should go all out and that means delaying doing Akazit which also feels really bad.

Either way the more I think about it the more I really like the two AP Skrundaz, it's an important item but it also feels a lot less important that most of the stuff we make. To me it's a low pressure opportunity to experiment with some runes and try and make something cool while also acknowleding that it's fine to only put in the minimum actions and it doesn't matter too much if the combo doesn't work.

oh so this mean it wouldn't be a big deal to be late on it either since it fine to be late on comminsions(we did it early in the quest) you just have to pay them more, I would rather not but having the option nice

Void Stalker · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
It's also an extremely developed research tree compared to alchemy which we'd have only finished two actions in at that point so alchemy will most likely offer massive discoveries as well for fewer actions that's why I think we shouldn't just swap back over to rune metal as soon as we've finished the first two stages of alchemy I don't expect it to be done (I expect we'll have picked over the bare basics) as we'd have pretty much only finished its equivalent of rune metal part 1 and part 2. Besides everything T5 metal is applicable to alchemy will be applicable to as well plus more.

Edit: I'm willing to slot rune metal into spare slots of alchemy turns but until we progress alchemy more I don't want to progress rune metal with the possible exception of finishing 3B.

T5 gromil is a very big deal though. It is going to be as much as an improvement on Adamant as Adamant was over normal Gromil. Having said that there are some hints that alchemy might be needed for part of the T5 process.

Jreengus · Feb 12, 2021

Woltaire said:
oh so this mean it wouldn't be a big deal to be late on it either since it fine to be late on comminsions(we did it early in the quest) you just have to pay them more, I would rather not but having the option nice

It's meant to be made for the handover of the high priestship so I don't think it's one we can be late on, but at 2 actions it should be easy to slot in around other stuff.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

Void Stalker said:
T5 gromil is a very big deal though. It is going to be as much as an improvement on Adamant as Adamant was over normal Gromil. Having said that there are some hints that alchemy might be needed for part of the T5 process.

We're kind of struggling to find things that can even beat on adamant so I think we're fine to let that line of thinking take a back seat for a century and that century is all the time I need plus alchemy offers its own set of potential crazy improvements to the effectiveness of runes and items.

Woltaire said:
oh so this mean it wouldn't be a big deal to be late on it either since it fine to be late on comminsions(we did it early in the quest) you just have to pay them more, I would rather not but having the option nice

We deal with stuff that's high profile enough now that I really don't feel comfortable being late on commissions anymore like I could maybe swallow being late on the siege engine commission we've been offered but I don't even want to do that commission in the first place, to be honest.

SoHowAreYou · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
Your plan also fails the Grave Warden commission as it only performing 11/12 actions.

No? 3 actions one turn yields 5, and 5 actions the next gives 8, 5+8=13? Unless there's something I'm missing

Sir LagsAlot said:
We also have an awful lot of user suggestions they don't tend to get put in updates because they're popular they're put in just because they make sense to put in.

Someone wanted it, so I put it in, it could be replaced with bassically anything

Sir LagsAlot said:
Doesn't, matter if part five is six actions as part six will be twelve, part seven will be twenty-four, and part eight will fifteen before we get our hands on some T5 adamant.

Ok, but we need to do part 5 before the we can do the next part, like I just put the action name in man, I really don't get what you're trying to say here.

BungieONI · Feb 12, 2021

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
I will laugh if we do Akazit and it unlocks pt2, and then like 5 extra branches of mat sci. Like a research project for every mat sci we want to enhance. Every odd places gets a new alchemy research option. The research pit must GROW.

I'm pretty sure I'd find a way to reach through my screen and light that list on fire if that happened. It would just be stupid at that point.

MrHobbit said:
I'm honestly inclined to not go for the Az Dreugi. It would be awesome to make, but there are so many shinies to poke.

I'm also not that inclined to do it: the axe in and of itself isn't a very interesting concept to me since I'm not feeling a lot of inspiration in terms of runes to put on it, and because I want to do both Akazit and Purification. Picking up Az-Dreugi makes doing both of those tricky if people want to put Purification on it, which I have seen suggested. Put that all together and I'd rather sling the actions spent doing it into something else.

Skrundaz on the other hand catches my interest due to being a cultural piece for Kraka Drakk we'll be able to look back on in fifty turns and be generally happy with the result and read about Snorri reminiscing about it, and its a fine thing to poke Ancestor Rune based combos on. I can think of things for it that are grabbing, so to speak.

I wouldn't mind if we did Az-Dreugi, but if that happens its design cycle probably isn't going to get much input from me.

Jreengus said:
Either way the more I think about it the more I really like the two AP Skrundaz, it's an important item but it also feels a lot less important that most of the stuff we make. To me it's a low pressure opportunity to experiment with some runes and try and make something cool while also acknowleding that it's fine to only put in the minimum actions and it doesn't matter too much if the combo doesn't work.

This is why I want to do Skrundaz, as a bit of artistic experimentation.

Woltaire said:
oh so this mean it wouldn't be a big deal to be late on it either since it fine to be late on comminsions(we did it early in the quest) you just have to pay them more, I would rather not but having the option nice

I'm gonna remind people, that back then, there were no deadlines in a mechanical sense so knowledge from then is not necessarily applicable to now. I'm gonna believe those deadlines are pretty serious unless Soul says otherwise. On that note actually, @soulcake what would happen if we were late on a Request that had a listed deadline?

Void Stalker · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
We're kind of struggling to find things that can even beat on adamant so I think we're fine to let that line of thinking take a back seat for a century and that century is all the time I need plus alchemy offers its own set of potential crazy improvements to the effectiveness of runes and items.

You did notice how runes on Adamant work better than runes on Gromil? And that T5 gromil is likely to have a similar boost over Adamant? That means anything we make with T5 gromil is going to be better than anything we make with adamant. And main line rune metal has been pushed back for a good while now.

MysteryCPU · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
Doesn't, matter if part five is six actions as part six will be twelve, part seven will be twenty-four, and part eight will fifteen before we get our hands on some T5 adamant.

Is this from Word of QM?

Fayhem · Feb 12, 2021

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
4 actions gives 2 bonus from journeyman, 2 from soul of the earth for rune metal. So 5 actions becomes 9, 4 becomes 8. It'll take two turns to do.

OH. Literally I misinterpreted what you said the first time lmao. I thought you were saying "5/4" in a manner analogous to "5 or 4 actions" (which would not normally be the order people would place those in, but hey). Not "five and then 4." So, uh, yeah, that's on me I expect. Mb.

BungieONI said:
I'm also not that inclined to do it: the axe in and of itself isn't a very interesting concept to me since I'm not feeling a lot of inspiration in terms of runes to put on it

I mean, you're definitely allowed to have your own feelings about it, but personally I'm hyped for the MR Flight-oriented design that I/Jreengus apparently independently came up with versions of. I think we've got the mats and concept to make a really cool weapon, and a Grimnir-style throwing axe seems conceptually distinct enough from any of the weapon stuff we've done before that it feels new enough to be interesting to me.

I'm probably okay to skip the Gnolbarag commission though, a Morgrim standing unlock sounds interesting and we haven't done a war machine in a while, but we aren't exactly suffering from a surfeit of AP and it's not like we don't have a Runelord who specced hard into war machines right here in the Far North who could probably take the commission. But the pick and the axe I'd both really like to do.

soulcake said:
You all realize Malekith is related to the current Everqueen right? Theyre half siblings.

W-what are you doing, half-sibling?

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

SoHowAreYou said:
No? 3 actions one turn yields 5, and 5 actions the next gives 8, 5+8=13? Unless there's something I'm missing.

I forgot the secondary clause for the trait my bad.

SoHowAreYou said:
Someone wanted it, so I put it in, it could be replaced with bassically anything

That's just... odd reasoning to put something in you, yourself don't want I assumed you were putting it in because you thought it was popular which it doesn't seem to be.

SoHowAreYou said:
Ok, but we need to do part 5 before the we can do the next part, like I just put the action name in man, I really don't get what you're trying to say here

I'm saying as I stated in my original objection that part 5 doesn't give us anything to work with its purpose is to just confirm T5 metal exists it is therefore a very long term project when we have other arguably better low hanging fruit lying around.

Void Stalker said:
You did notice how runes on Adamant work better than runes on Gromil? And that T5 gromil is likely to have a similar boost over Adamant? That means anything we make with T5 gromil is going to be better than anything we make with adamant. And main line rune metal has been pushed back for a good while now.

Boosting the effectiveness of runes is not a unique property of the rune metal research line the mat science research actions and most likely alchemy do the same thing so unless we need the extra durability for some reason we can afford to delay rune metal for a while longer. And, having delayed something for a while isn't really an argument for doing it I've delayed going bankrupt for over twenty years that isn't an argument that I suddenly should go bankrupt plus we've literally never done alchemy so trying to pull the "we've delayed it for a while" card on alchemy is pretty much an automatic loss for any other possible action.

MysteryCPU said:
Is this from Word of QM?

I've mentioned it a couple of times but it's me deriving the costs of the T5 action chain from the T4 one.

argenten · Feb 12, 2021

[x] Plan Basket, plus prepare the defenses

TimEd · Feb 12, 2021

The thing that really swings me away from the pick is that we can't use gromril chain on it.

The thing we could do is make it out of Adamant, but others could do that too.

It just doesn't slide as cleanly like the 2 armor commisions do.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

The pick is a commission we can two action for once which is nice.

tri2 · Feb 12, 2021

TimEd said:
The thing that really swings me away from the pick is that we can't use gromril chain on it.

The thing we could do is make it out of Adamant, but others could do that too.

It just doesn't slide as cleanly like the 2 armor commisions do.

adamant pick with master rune of force, current, and light for a super strong durable, fast , self lighting pick axe?

soulcake · Feb 12, 2021

BungieONI said:
On that note actually, @soulcake what would happen if we were late on a Request that had a listed deadline?

You'd owe them and suffer a bit of shame for missing the deadline, which grows the longer it goes on. Monetarily you go through the contract payment I spoke about way at the beginning of the quest.

Silver719 · Feb 12, 2021

Runed adamant cube that animates the nearby stone and, over time, compresses it into the shape of a Gronti of proper dwarven craftsmanship.

Thoughts?

acerak · Feb 12, 2021

soulcake said:
Tldr the elves arent into incest. Or at least the ones who crowned the phoenix king. I wont comment on the rest of elven society. *stares at the future pleasure cults*

I like to imagine your avatar matches your face when you stare at the cults.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Yandere Dice Magnet

Yandere Dice Magnet

Yandere Dice Magnet

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Definitely not an escaped SCP

Yandere Dice Magnet

Meteor maker