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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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the curse of the Shepard quest have gotten to him

it trying to kill him before he could revive it :V
 
Did you quote the wrong guy? He was talking to me about an Alchemist's Guild.
You quoted the wrong person about... Whatever it is you're talking about.
Indeed I did, sorry about that.
I'm a little confused as to what you are talking about here. I don't see how you got match Snorri's rule of pride and only teach to apprentices? Like, that wasn't what the different splits were. It was about how often they'd use the runes. Which are not master runes. Like, the 8 for the strict set were people who would use the Rune whenever it came up, the others were progressively more likely to not use it as often. It didn't have anything to do with who they taught or the like.
Edit: Went back and found the post soulcake made, its both use and spread of the rune he based it on.
So now that you've checked the post you understand that spread was who they teach it to and use was, well its use.
Yes that's what I was talking about. We're behind X number of walls and thus behind at least some of its underway defenses.
I'm not sure I buy that underway defenses where concentric circles rather than a series of checkpoints along tunnels.
time for everyones favourite game: Stroke or Scottish.
 
Doing a reread. Some thoughts, though do note that I do not read posts between updates and thus am likely missing a lot of stuff:

The inefficient use of actions in some early turns makes me cringe. Wasted Snorris three for the prize of two bonus unnecessarily a couple times.

There is an empty "Creations of Note:" in Hearthguards character sheet. We should not feel obliged to fill it of course, but it got me thinking about what such a extremely versatile and generalist formation would most benefit from. My current best idea is a movement speed/stamina focused banner as they have morale, damage, and toughness enough already considering that they are not a dedicated combat formation and to make them better at rapid response which seems like something they would excel at. Or perhaps a talisman of healing if we can do that, healing is always very nice.

This turn we spend four actions on the commission. First two actions gave an extra half an action each, third gave a whole extra action, but the fourth one did not benefit from our productivity bonuses. As such unless the commission is too urgent we would get more stuff done using only three actions and leaving the one for things we have no action economy bonuses for or that take only a single action. Apprentices come to mind.

Looks like we can teach three students at a time (12 turns), and use their apprentice actions to teach two more. We should do this, increasing the number of Runesmiths is about the best way I can think of to increase the number of runework done and thus dwarf lives improved, the work our students do in their lifetimes eclipse what we could do with the actions we used to train them many times over. It also propagates Snorris Runes and ways of thinking, such as his productivity focus.

Our prosthetics can not yet replace sights or hearing, but we have research that can fix this. I am a big fan of this. Crippling wounds are nasty things when you don't have to live with them for centuries.

Artifacts can result in some serious synergy, and I am not even talking about multi item combos. One person wearing a great armor and a great axe and a movement boost belt would be far scarier than if those artifacts were spread across three people, much less if all three are given to the best combatant around. Stack those multipliers, as they multiply each other.

I still want to build a meteorfall armor for a Griffon, it just seems like an awesome idea.

Local temple won't accept any more toys, on account of having far too many already. This means that we either accept this and make fewer toys (grumble), or we go to other temples with them. That, however, would likely require fast transportation as travelling between holds the current way takes a while, as well as subtle considering how stealthy Snorri likes to be when doing this. A Gronti Gryffon is my best idea for this. Azilwrut and dragonhide maybe, it will need to be light. And Snorri might need some kind of an item of safe landing to be willing to use one. Other option might be partnering up with an actual gryffon I suppose, but I don't think that Snorri would be willing to share in this tradition so.
 
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This turn we spend four actions on the commission. First two actions gave an extra half an action each, third gave a whole extra action, but the fourth one did not benefit from our productivity bonuses. As such unless the commission is too urgent we would get more stuff done using only three actions and leaving the one for things we have no action economy bonuses for or that take only a single action. Apprentices come to mind.
In regards to that, we're doing it as 2 groups of 4 actions due to our limited time constraints, we only have 2 more turns to work on it and need to input an effective 6 actions on top of the effective 6 we've already done. That's why we put in 4 actions, not ignoring the 4th action not proccing any bonuses but rather being able to complete the request in total over two turns with an interspersed research turn that we can spare the actions to proc bonusses on of our choosing. If that makes sense.
 
I think we'd be better off completing Valaya's commission a turn early, so this coming turn, giving us maximum flexibility in case Yorri returns later or events intervene, or so we can research and then add the warding Rune of XXX to the Gazulite's equipment.
 
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I'll be voting for the basket again this turn, it only locks us in for one turn now and while I think it's unlikely the basket runes will help with the armour I think the chance of them helping is higher than the chance something happens that we absolutely have to do turn 40 and I think it's extremely important we get them done before Rhunkalbrogg.
 
I'll be voting for the basket again this turn, it only locks us in for one turn now and while I think it's unlikely the basket runes will help with the armour I think the chance of them helping is higher than the chance something happens that we absolutely have to do turn 40 and I think it's extremely important we get them done before Rhunkalbrogg.
oh right to clarify, I'd still prefer armour next turn as I'm pretty afraid of a disaster turn coming up and want to remove some commitments, but if we're going to take a free turn before then I'd like it to be Basket or RM5 so that we also blow minds of the Brotherhood members who know we have chain.
 
I'll be voting for the basket again this turn, it only locks us in for one turn now and while I think it's unlikely the basket runes will help with the armour I think the chance of them helping is higher than the chance something happens that we absolutely have to do turn 40 and I think it's extremely important we get them done before Rhunkalbrogg.
Finishing the basket turn 41 would be enough for Rhunkalbrogg. We completed the Hearthsguards equipment the same turn we started the campaign for Karag Dum so I don't see why it wouldn't work again.
Also completing the basket is not necessary to get one of the runes, when we researched dronril/-wut we got one of the mats upon reaching one action from completing the project, why wouldn't the same apply here?

If Yorri turns up we can use him to significantly improve Mind/Movement of things. This wil increase our understanding of deep magic which is, as far as I can tell, the "impress Thungni" research. It may also improve our prosthetics which Valaya would probably like.

I get the whole wanting to impress Valaya thing, what I don't understand is why this should be prioritized over impressing Thungni. Especially since making use of Yorri and researching the basket are not mutually exclusive.
 
Finishing the basket turn 41 would be enough for Rhunkalbrogg. We completed the Hearthsguards equipment the same turn we started the campaign for Karag Dum so I don't see why it wouldn't work again.
Also completing the basket is not necessary to get one of the runes, when we researched dronril/-wut we got one of the mats upon reaching one action from completing the project, why wouldn't the same apply here?

If Yorri turns up we can use him to significantly improve Mind/Movement of things. This wil increase our understanding of deep magic which is, as far as I can tell, the "impress Thungni" research. It may also improve our prosthetics which Valaya would probably like.

I get the whole wanting to impress Valaya thing, what I don't understand is why this should be prioritized over impressing Thungni. Especially since making use of Yorri and researching the basket are not mutually exclusive.
I don't think Yorri is that likely to turn up turn 40 which is the one we'd be locked in on and even if he did show up I'd want to try and use him on the basket, like I said small chances either way but I lean toward getting the basket done earlier.

I don't get why researching MWaking would impress Thungni, unless I'm forgetting something he hasn't given any indication to Snorri that he has any particular interest in it, if anything I'd expect impressing Thungni to come from anything we do related to runes, researching them, making powerful items and using those items.

I also consider Thungni less important because I think we're more likely to meet Thungni again before he leaves but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last time we meet Valaya/Grungni. I figure the ancestors have to know they're going to be leaving by this point so Rhunkalbrogg is a good opportunity for Valaya/Grungni to act on the principles they discussed when we met them last time and hand out any appropriate challenges they want to the runelords there before they're too busy preparing to leave. For Thungni however runesmiths are his responsibility so I'd expect wrapping up any loose ends with them before the ancestors leave to be his responsibility. As the eldest runelord in the north I wouldn't be surprised if we got a visit from him as part of this.
 
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As such unless the commission is too urgent
It is. It's due in two turns and requires all the actions from one turn to finish.

Also due to the way productivity like no other works there was no way to take advantage of the full 5 for 3 thing more than twice, and that would make it impossible to use the 3 for 2 part. Etc. so we split it up as best we could to give ourselves a free turn.
 
I'm not sure I buy that underway defenses where concentric circles rather than a series of checkpoints along tunnels.
This doesn't matter to my point and I was not making commentary on what they looked like. My point is that we are behind defenses: if we are behind the walls, we are behind underway defenses of some description and I don't actually care what they look like because however its set up it mitigates part of the issues of having caverns underneath Snorri's house.
 
I don't think Yorri is that likely to turn up turn 40 which is the one we'd be locked in on and even if he did show up I'd want to try and use him on the basket, like I said small chances either way but I lean toward getting the basket done earlier.

I don't get why researching MWaking would impress Thungni, unless I'm forgetting something he hasn't given any indication to Snorri that he has any particular interest in it, if anything I'd expect impressing Thungni to come from anything we do related to runes, researching them, making powerful items and using those items.

I also consider Thungni less important because I think we're more likely to meet Thungni again before he leaves but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last time we meet Valaya/Grungni. I figure the ancestors have to know they're going to be leaving by this point so Rhunkalbrogg is a good opportunity for Valaya/Grungni to act on the principles they discussed when we met them last time and hand out any appropriate challenges they want to the runelords there before they're too busy preparing to leave. For Thungni however runesmiths are his responsibility so I'd expect wrapping up any loose ends with them before the ancestors leave to be his responsibility. As the eldest runelord in the north I wouldn't be surprised if we got a visit from him as part of this.
In my mind, meeting an ancestor is something that happens if they are interested in you and you are in their general vicinity. I don't see Thungni going out of his way to visit Snorri or any other far away runesmith, at most he would send us a note/item like Smednir did and even that is doubtful. As such I expect the current conclave to be our final chance to interact with any ancestors (except Gazul who is a wanderer) and Thungni has the most reason to be in attendance.
If the conclave isn't in Karaz-a-Karak we might meet Grungni since he is an awesome runesmith himself but Valaya would have very little reason to attend.

My reasoning for Thungni caring about Movement of Things is something like this:
-Thungni coined the term Deep Magic and his apprentices/children kept bugging him about it for centuries until he finally confirmed it wasn't a figure of speech. Apparently no one but him knows much about it.
-When we forged Barak Azamar the statue of Thungnis eyes shone like crazy. Barak Azamars standout features are Deep Magic and being T5. I believe that the statues reaction was due to the connection to Deep Magic.
-The flavor text for Movement of Things makes it clear that the next part is about manipulating Deep Magic more directly. It also clarifies that our understanding increased thanks to Valmas runes even though she didn't know much about Deep Magic. From this I take that insights gained from Yorri would count as our achievement.
 
My reasoning for Thungni caring about Movement of Things is something like this:
Thungni is certainly interested in the Movement of Things, I do not deny that. But we can only make fourteen progress on it, unless Yorri comes in which case we can get 28-35 progress if I remember correctly. Somewhere thereabouts anyways. And to get that much progress we have to ignore Armoured Maidens, making it so that both it and the Gazulite commissions are late.

There are undoubtedly Runelords that have gone further along the Movement of Things research line than us, most likely further along than even 35 progress.

This isn't gromril chain where there is a chance that we were the first guy to do it.
 
This doesn't matter to my point and I was not making commentary on what they looked like. My point is that we are behind defenses: if we are behind the walls, we are behind underway defenses of some description and I don't actually care what they look like because however its set up it mitigates part of the issues of having caverns underneath Snorri's house.
I doubt this random cave system we only just found under our workshop is connected to the underway.
 
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