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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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BungieONI said:
I mean with a Runic Army as in Armed in Arms, we have a chance to cut our way through to have intermittent trade.
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We're talking about a number of daemons materializing that a Divine Champion mad on the bloodlust of a Divine Weapon came to his senses in realizing that he had no hope of winning a conventional warfare.

I don't think even a Throng decked head to toe in runed gromril will be able to secure an entire trade route, especially considering that there's not gonna be a trade route cause Grungi's gonna order everyone to dig in.
 
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Chief18753 said:
We're talking about a number of daemon materializing that a Divine Champion mad on the bloodlust of a Divine Weapon came to his senses in realizing that he had no hope of winning a conventional warfare.

I don't think even a Throng decked head to toe in runed gromril will be able to secure an entire trade route, considering that there's not gonna be a trade route cause Grungi's gonna order everyone to dig in.
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Point there. Regardless, we need it to survive to the best level we can. Gotta have dwarfs to man the walls and all that, and to wade out and make sure refugees can get here.
 
BungieONI said:
Could work, though the initial proposal for the machine was basically a sniper platform.
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For the best chance at a combo then, I'd go Rune of Forging and Rune of Accuracy.

Rune of Forging seems like it's about making and keeping the machine in optimum firing shape for pinpoint accuracy. Sort of like a sniper rifle.

Then, the Accuracy Rune works on the bolt in flight for even more accuracy.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Can Dwarves use runes to get around the issues of growing underground crops @soulcake ?
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Dwarfs figured that out a long time ago. Even without the Rune of Reflection, clever mirror placement often does the trick. Dwarf "Hold Crops" are bred to survive on less light than usual.


tri2 said:
@soulcake master rune of animation + doc ock style arms backpack engineer equipment = extra extendable strong arms controlled by thought = more AP?
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No, itd just mean Snorri has more arms to devote to one task. Increasing AP would require Snorri needing to divert less attention to do things properly.
 
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soulcake said:
Dwarfs figured that out a long time ago. Even without the Rune of Reflection, clever mirror placement often does the trick. Dwarf "Hold Crops" are bred to survive on less light than usual.
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Well, not gonna starve at least. Hope that we have enough room for everyone or that we can carve them out even during the Incursion.


BungieONI said:
Point there. Regardless, we need it to survive to the best level we can. Gotta have dwarfs to man the walls and all that, and to wade out and make sure refugees can get here.
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Agreed. Military power and strength of our defenses are gonna be what carries us over.
 
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Just how long does a minor Dwarven Hold in the North can put up a fight until they are Overwhelmed and destroyed by the demons, Is it so flimsy that It takes only a year or Is It a proper Dwarven hold that it will take at least a decade because at beginning of the story I seem to remember the some of the Minor hold took there Defense pretty seriously do to our action I might be wrong.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
For the best chance at a combo then, I'd go Rune of Forging and Rune of Accuracy.

Rune of Forging seems like it's about making and keeping the machine in optimum firing shape for pinpoint accuracy. Sort of like a sniper rifle.

Then, the Accuracy Rune works on the bolt in flight for even more accuracy.
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Yeah that would probably be better but it would be a trade off with penetrations punching power. PlusI dont think we can even put Cleaving on a warmachine given it's a weapon Rune and we are runing the bolts too.

And how about 10 regular Gromril bolts with Rune of Daemonslaying, Cleaving and Striking.
 
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soulcake said:
On one hand, I feel your pain.

On the other, I'm really proud of how the system naturally encapsulated the Runelord's dilemma. Too many things to do, and not enough people who can do them properly. :^V
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Over the last 9 turns, we've spent only 8 actions on research. That's 8 actions out of 36 actions, or 2/9ths. Make of that as you will.
BungieONI said:
And like. You are assuming we are going to finish it with pt 3, since that's just coming up with the Runic Array to do the purification. There's probably a part four too, where we actually work on the physical assembly required.
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If we want to make a difference to the timeline, finishing the rune metal research tree before the demon invasion scuttles everyone's plans is the best way to do it. One risk is loosing lines of communication and trade, but the far bigger risk is that given the thread's current track record during the invasion we'll stop all research completely. Now during the prologue is when we'll have the most breathing room for research, but it looks like people are far less interested in doing so than everything else.

All the hold request options right now are overambitious projects. That's not to say they're not worth doing, but to me it looks like we've managed to reach a solid and stable foundation. We don't have infrastructure upgrades or defense upgrades waiting for us; instead it's army++ upgrades that go beyond the normal standards. If we keep going down this path we'll find army+++ upgrades right after. How far do we need to go before we feel like doing possibly-gamechanging research instead?
 
Keeper of Dreams said:
Just how long does a minor Dwarven Hold in the North can put up a fight until they are Overwhelmed and destroyed by the demons, Is it so flimsy that It takes only a year or Is It a proper Dwarven hold that it will take at least a decade because at beginning of the story I seem to remember the some of the Minor hold took there Defense pretty seriously do to our action I might be wrong.
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It's one of those weird things. It depends entirely on whoever is writing that canon novel. Sometimes you'll have a dwarf hold able to last a decade or a hundred years. Or you'll have one that somehow suffers a catastrophic error and folds in a year.

If word has gotten out about how Snorri has rigged our Hold, and it might, with the amount of Runesmiths that have kept spreading around, the other Northern Holds might also be pretty well defended. Their defence won't be exactly the same, Dawi are to prideful for that, but they should be able to last at least a turn.
 
Abhishek M said:
Yeah that would probably be better but it would be a trade off with penetrations punching power. PlusI dont think we can even put Cleaving on a warmachine given it's a weapon Rune and we are runing the bolts too.

And how about 10 regular Gromril bolts with Rune of Daemonslaying, Cleaving and Striking.
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We can generally assume that we have most variations of simple runes IIRC.

Derpmind said:
Over the last 9 turns, we've spent only 8 actions on research. That's 8 actions out of 36 actions, or 2/9ths. Make of that as you will.


If we want to make a difference to the timeline, finishing the rune metal research tree before the demon invasion scuttles everyone's plans is the best way to do it. One risk is loosing lines of communication and trade, but the far bigger risk is that given the thread's current track record during the invasion we'll stop all research completely. Now during the prologue is when we'll have the most breathing room for research, but it looks like people are far less interested in doing so than everything else.

All the hold request options right now are overambitious projects. That's not to say they're not worth doing, but to me it looks like we've managed to reach a solid and stable foundation. We don't have infrastructure upgrades or defense upgrades waiting for us; instead it's army++ upgrades that go beyond the normal standards. If we keep going down this path we'll find army+++ upgrades right after. How far do we need to go before we feel like doing possibly-gamechanging research instead?
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So to put it bluntly, I don't think Rune Metal is as gamechanging as you. For one, the game has already probably been changed since both the Brotherhood of Dron and Burudin have reason to poke at Gromril to figure it out and are way older than us. Particularly the Brotherhood, since their unofficial thing is "Figure out how to break the Rule of Three". They probably know it already. And I think the daemons will be here next turn going by soulcake's rather generous warnings.

Furthermore however I've been in Divided Loyalties and Dynamic Alcoholism. I know the pain of not buckling down and doing oodles of the tech tree and feeling that experience of breaking into the secrets of the setting and when we're trapped is one of the best times to research it in my opinion. Because once the cataclysm hits we're basically going to be limited to Repairs, research, and whatever super item Difficult Requests we can pull off. Why not spend a whole bunch of time holed up in our workshop when we can't really go outside, afterall.

In terms of the Hold and its defenses, the Army and the Warmachine are all I really want. Do that up nicely and our sword matches our shield and that's... pretty much all I can think of that I want. The Banner can be something we cook up while we're cooped up if possible.
 
[ ] Plan Solid Foundation
-[ ]The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
--[ ] 3 actions (procs increase this to 5)
-[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk, to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard-bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
--[ ] Combo, Daemonward: You will not run, you will not hide, you will not fail again. Daemon's burn in the presence of these runes, their blows faltering as their very essence is assaulted. [Roll to negate losing a battle roll to the enemy] ???

Daemonward seems to be an appropriate banner given our position so far north and the amount of Chaos we will have to deal with. The idea here is that I am fairly sure we have next turn to take actions, and maybe turn 12 as well. The arming troops can be done with a single turn (2 actions, proc trait, burn favor) so if things detiorate to the point we expect to be dealing with incursions turn 12 than we can finish the standard and do Armed in Arms next turn. If the situation is not going as bad as quick and it looks like we have turn 12 as well to get in the last prep than we can finish the banner and rune metal next turn, which also gives us time to call up any reagents we might need for rune metal research and use.
 
Alright, how about a gentleman's agreement. We really have been putting off the research a bit. Heck I've introduced a couple Master Weapons Plans that will probably set it a bit further back.

But how about after the current batch of requests. The Arms, the Warmachine and its myriad Runed bolts and the Banner. We agree we finish Rune Metal pt3, pt.4, Troll Heat and either motion, light or the silver wood thing. Like just clear the research too for the most part in a row just to compensate?
 
Abhishek M said:
Alright, how about a gentleman's agreement. We really have been putting off the research a bit. Heck I've introduced a couple Master Weapons Plans that will probably set it a bit further back.

But how about after the current batch of requests. The Arms, the Warmachine and its myriad Runed bolts and the Banner. We agree we finish Rune Metal pt3, pt.4, Troll Heat and either motion, light or the silver wood thing. Like just clear the research too for the most part in a row just to compensate?
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Doesn't even need to be a gentleman's agreement. It's what I wanted to do (excluding the banner and bolts) before we start plugging away at research while daemons scream at our doorstep like angry pigeons.
 
Captain Spatula said:
It's one of those weird things. It depends entirely on whoever is writing that canon novel. Sometimes you'll have a dwarf hold able to last a decade or a hundred years. Or you'll have one that somehow suffers a catastrophic error and folds in a year.

If word has gotten out about how Snorri has rigged our Hold, and it might, with the amount of Runesmiths that have kept spreading around, the other Northern Holds might also be pretty well defended. Their defence won't be exactly the same, Dawi are to prideful for that, but they should be able to last at least a turn.
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Most locations, even Dawi Holds, especially the smaller ones, are simply unable to stand up to a Bloodthirster deciding that the king's guts would look better outside his body and that a heart tastes delicious. Particularly if said Bloodthrister has tons of friends wanting to join in on the sction.
 
Alas, I must sleep before the moratorium is lifted. Can someone post these for me after it ends please?

[ ] Plan Research And Places
-[ ] Odd Places 2/10: [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: [Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
--[ ] 3 Actions
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 4 turns.
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 6 turns.
-[ ] Order Oathgold.

And for those of us who don't want to go for the Odd Places:

[ ] Plan Research and Sniper
-[ ] [Difficult] Write in, A Greater Warmachine Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
--[ ] Choose: Master Rune of Disguise + Rune of Accuracy + Rune of Forging
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: [Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
--[ ] 3 Actions
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 4 turns.
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 6 turns.
-[ ] Order Oathgold.
 
BungieONI said:
Doesn't even need to be a gentleman's agreement. It's what I wanted to do (excluding the banner and bolts) before we start plugging away at research while daemons scream at our doorstep like angry pigeons.
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It's to our benefit I suppose, that if things go as OTL we'll all be ordered to dig in hard by Grungni first.
Abhishek M said:
Alright, how about a gentleman's agreement. We really have been putting off the research a bit. Heck I've introduced a couple Master Weapons Plans that will probably set it a bit further back.

But how about after the current batch of requests. The Arms, the Warmachine and its myriad Runed bolts and the Banner. We agree we finish Rune Metal pt3, pt.4, Troll Heat and either motion, light or the silver wood thing. Like just clear the research too for the most part in a row just to compensate?
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I'm already going for Bungie's plan that has a single action into researching the Greedy Heart. As is, under these circumstances I don't expect any agreement to be lasting. Something new will pop up.
 
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BungieONI said:
We can generally assume that we have most variations of simple runes IIRC.
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It's just soulcakes comment about engineering Runes on the machine and weapon Runes on the bolt. Cleaving from what I can tell is based on a pick axe making the top pointer or just better at breaking through. That sound like something to add to the bolt not the thrower.

If soulcake if generous enough to let us go with 3 runes on each we should combo appropriately and not try to stretch the Runes functions if we can get away with not. Penetration is already good let's go for Forging or Accuracy as the other one.

BungieONI said:
Doesn't even need to be a gentleman's agreement.
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I know, that's just to have it said outright. One not to diverge unless it's something immediately urgent like an actual battle and not threats in the horizon.
 
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Chief18753 said:
Most locations, even Dawi Holds, especially the smaller ones, are simply unable to stand up to a Bloodthirster deciding that the king's guts would look better outside his body and that a heart tastes delicious. Particularly if said Bloodthrister has tons of friends wanting to join in on the sction.
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Maybe in a later, degraded age. This is the Time of the Ancestors.
 
I know we're pretty rich, but the thought of using Gromril as disposable javelins seems pretty excessive to me. Unless we know there's a greater daemon or some other giant monster that we know we can't take care of, other than that, that quantity of Gromril should be put to much better uses.
 
maplejvl said:
I know we're pretty rich, but the thought of using Gromril as disposable javelins seems pretty excessive to me. Unless we know there's a greater daemon or some other giant monster that we know we can't take care of, other than that, that quantity of Gromril should be put to much better uses.
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I think the idea when Soulcake suggested it was that Gromril spikes would be sturdy enough to recover.

But personally I just want the Warmachine. The Ammo can be something we work on later, while we're stuck in the Hold.
 
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