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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I wanna say yes? The ammo would technically be using weapon runes in that case. But engineering Runes like the Rune of Burning sort of invalidate the need for that it since they imbue whatever ammunition is being fired with the desired effect already. Only point to it would be if you were shooting spikes of Gromril at someone tbh.
I mean, if its a Mastercrafted Bolt Thrower then it only makes sense, right?

So Master Currents + Strength + Fortitude ir Disguise if we dont need to worry about durability, plus a javelin inscribed with lets say...a Master Rune of Valaya, along with Flying and Piercing to basically launch a guided stake of Gromril right into boss-tier Daemons and have it return for reloading?

A Tzeench-seeking Missile, one might say?

Just slap Grimnirs face on the side of it and itd basically be perfect
 
I'm not sure ballooning our population is a good idea if we're going to be under siege any time soon, more dwarfs is generally better for defence, but if we're suddenly under siege and our siege stores are too small for all the recently arrived dwarfs things aren't going to go so well.
Huh, that is a very good point to bring up. I'd forgotten, but, once the smaller Holds start falling, the people are gonna start evacuating to Kraka Drak. The sudden influx of however many of the refuges that manage to reach the Hold might end up overwhelming population limits. So, perhaps another Odd Place that might provoke further increase in population might be a bad thing.
You nod in agreement, the facilities and districts are growing a tad tight, only a century or two more and you'd be packed in like sardines. The discovery of your very lucrative Wutroth forest sending yet more dwarfs northwards.
 
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I mean, if its a Mastercrafted Bolt Thrower then it only makes sense, right?

So Master Currents + Strength + Fortitude ir Disguise if we dont need to worry about durability, plus a javelin inscribed with lets say...a Master Rune of Valaya, along with Flying and Piercing to basically launch a guided stake of Gromril right into boss-tier Daemons and have it return for reloading?

A Tzeench-seeking Missile, one might say?

Just slap Grimnirs face on the side of it and itd basically be perfect
Flying is the boomerang rune. If you want homing missile go for striking. Counter intuitive but that's what it is.
 
I think Banners, ideally, should wait until we research our new Wutroth. I would honestly prefer a battle standard to be as good as we can make it. As close to Legendary tier as we can get. That would probably mean Silver Wutroth wooden pole and some fancy cloth/silk. Maybe if we cure dragon leather right it might make a decent cloth for a banner...
 
Personally, I think either there actions into arming the troops or three actions into rune metal then a cache option would be best.
 
It's been 10 turns and we haven't finished a single research project. Not. One. An entire century and despite all of Snorri's accomplishments he hasn't yet improved himself as a Runesmith. Can we please work on finishing off The Rune Metal already? Y'know, since things haven't exploded yet and we just finished a bunch of a pile of army-centric projects. I don't care where the forth action goes; so long as a plan puts three actions into finally finishing our mega-research project I'll vote for it.
 
I mean, if its a Mastercrafted Bolt Thrower then it only makes sense, right?

So Master Currents + Strength + Fortitude ir Disguise if we dont need to worry about durability, plus a javelin inscribed with lets say...a Master Rune of Valaya, along with Flying and Piercing to basically launch a guided stake of Gromril right into boss-tier Daemons and have it return for reloading?

A Tzeench-seeking Missile, one might say?

Just slap Grimnirs face on the side of it and itd basically be perfect
We ordered the diamonds last turn and they got here so I'd go for disguise so the clever Tzeentichians don't get Too Clever and try to destroy it. And no it probably doesn't need Fortitude. Put Rune of Accuracy and Rune of Penetration on the launch platform and its good to go. You can supplement it by making the ammunition a Gromril Spike with Master Rune of Flight, Rune of Cleaving and Rune of Might.

Can't put both Master Rune of Valaya and Master Rune of Flying on the ammo though.
 
@soulcake how many extra large Bolts could be made with Wutroth, Gromril, and Master Runes of Currents alongside the War Machine?
Technically, as many as you had mats for. Realistically, Snorri would feel sacrilegious at around 3 of those bolts. Hes no Alaric the Mad ya see.
I mean, if its a Mastercrafted Bolt Thrower then it only makes sense, right?

So Master Currents + Strength + Fortitude ir Disguise if we dont need to worry about durability, plus a javelin inscribed with lets say...a Master Rune of Valaya, along with Flying and Piercing to basically launch a guided stake of Gromril right into boss-tier Daemons and have it return for reloading?

A Tzeench-seeking Missile, one might say?

Just slap Grimnirs face on the side of it and itd basically be perfect
Master Runes don't have alternatives for separate item categories naturally. You'd have to research them. Theoretically yes the correct combo of Runes would do what you're trying.

In this case:

Siege Engine would use Engineering Runes
The Bolt would use weapon runes.

this is mostly important when deciding what Master Runes go where. because of the above clarification.

Though note, wunderwaffen syndrome is something I wont protect this thread from.


It's been 10 turns and we haven't finished a single research project. Not. One. An entire century and despite all of Snorri's accomplishments he hasn't yet improved himself as a Runesmith. Can we please work on finishing off The Rune Metal already? Y'know, since things haven't exploded yet and we just finished a bunch of a pile of army-centric projects. I don't care where the forth action goes; so long as a plan puts three actions into finally finishing our mega-research project I'll vote for it.
On one hand, I feel your pain.

On the other, I'm really proud of how the system naturally encapsulated the Runelord's dilemma. Too many things to do, and not enough people who can do them properly. :^V
 
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Can Dwarves use runes to get around the issues of growing underground crops @soulcake ?

Easy. We've got this.

Rune of Reflection: This rune allowed Master Yorri to bend the angle of any light that hit this rune towards a single point

We set up a chain of those across the mountain top to act as mirrors, or use mirrors, to funnel sunlight into the underground farms. The issue would be water.
 
Technically, as many as you had mats for. Realistically, Snorri would feel sacrilegious at around 3 of those bolts. Hes no Alaric the Mad ya see.
Three it is! Overflow the action next turn to justify the extra Master Runed stuff and make them all up to snuff. We can try different combos on the too if it will make him feel better.

Meaning atleast one with daemon-slaying obviously. One can be Rune of fire for Troll and one I don't know the regular rune of dragon slaying?

The commonality being Current and Rune of Striking for a bit of homing.

The Warmachine form ONIs plan Invisibility, Penetration and Cleaving.
 
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It's been 10 turns and we haven't finished a single research project. Not. One. An entire century and despite all of Snorri's accomplishments he hasn't yet improved himself as a Runesmith. Can we please work on finishing off The Rune Metal already? Y'know, since things haven't exploded yet and we just finished a bunch of a pile of army-centric projects. I don't care where the forth action goes; so long as a plan puts three actions into finally finishing our mega-research project I'll vote for it.
There is Mind of Metal is right there. If that isn't improving himself as a Runesmith what is?

And like. You are assuming we are going to finish it with pt 3, but that's just coming up with the Runic Array to do the purification. There's probably a part four too, where we actually work on the physical assembly required.
You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure.
The physical make up of the procedure is pretty telling in that regard.
 
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There is Mind of Metal is right there.

And like. You are assuming we are going to finish it with pt 3, since that's just coming up with the Runic Array to do the purification. There's probably a part four too, where we actually work on the physical assembly required.

The physical make up of the procedure is pretty telling in that regard.
Hm, creating said Runic array and/or future research necessities might get a bit awkward if they require material that we don't have access to, given the likely hood of the trade routes shutting down. I wish we devoted ourselves to it earlier, but, it seems like too much of a risk to do it now.
 
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For the Warmachine; what about Master Rune of Disguise, Rune of Reloading, Rune of Speed?

If we only get one invisible machine, because Master Rune, increasing Rate of Fire seems like the best way to get the most out of it.

For non invisible machines, I'd go searching for mundane combos we can mass produce. Like Burning + Penetration + Impact so that every shot burrows into the target and then explodes.
 
Flying is the boomerang rune. If you want homing missile go for striking. Counter intuitive but that's what it is.
No?

Thats what Currents is for on the Bolt Thrower. I'm not saying a smart missile.

Just a guided one.

Flying lets it return, and Valaya makes sure it hurts.

The kicker is Strength + Fortitude on the Engine itself to let it survive the blowback of firing and reloading the stake itself
 
Hm, creating said Runic array might get a bit awkward if they require material that we don't have access to, given the likely hood of the trade routes shutting down. I wish we devoted ourselves to it earlier, but, it seems like too much of a risk to do it now.
I mean with a Runic Army as in Armed in Arms, we have a chance to cut our way through to have intermittent trade.

No?

Thats what Currents is for on the Bolt Thrower. I'm not saying a smart missile.

Just a guided one.

Flying lets it return, and Valaya makes sure it hurts.

The kicker is Strength + Fortitude on the Engine itself to let it survive the blowback of firing and reloading the stake itself
We for one you can't put Flying and Valaya onto the Ammo unless the Valaya rune is the simple Rune of Valaya and not the Master Rune.

For the Warmachine; what about Master Rune of Disguise, Rune of Reloading, Rune of Speed?

If we only get one invisible machine, because Master Rune, increasing Rate of Fire seems like the best way to get the most out of it.

For non invisible machines, I'd go searching for mundane combos we can mass produce. Like Burning + Penetration + Impact so that every shot burrows into the target and then explodes.
Could work, though the initial proposal for the machine was basically a sniper platform.
 
Uh, my impression is that we've actually finished two research projects, it's just that research projects are an enormous time investment when we're busy facilitating the development of a Hold--and with the signs of the Badness becoming more and more apparent, it's more difficult to justify digging in on the research mountain.

I think though our current slate is one where we can fairly safely say that we're "Good Enough" though. A runic equipped iron fist, a nice war machine, and our defenses should be sufficient for a while.
 
Wonder if the engineers could make an elevator with a revolving base for quicker aiming. Between that and the Master Rune of Disguise it might as well be a supernatural disappearing gun as it's brought out of sight to reload.

 
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Master Runes don't have alternatives for separate item categories naturally. You'd have to research them. Theoretically yes the correct combo of Runes would do what you're trying.

In this case:

Siege Engine would use Engineering Runes
The Bolt would use weapon runes.

this is mostly important when deciding what Master Runes go where. because of the above clarification.

Though note, wunderwaffen syndrome is something I wont protect this thread from.
Perfectly A-Okay with me, chief.

Thisd be less a wunderwaffen and more a trendsetting prototype though. The adaptation of Runes would be the real innovation for future Siege Weapons.
 
I'm not sure about the gromril javelins with flying on them, they simultaneously seem like huge overkill and too little bang for their buck.

Like, unless you're specifically shooting at the biggest of the big demons, or a steam tank or something, isn't a gromril clad tip pretty much good enough for everything else?

I'd like to suggest that we make a really great bolt thrower, but only make one or two of the uber gromril javelins, and only use those javelins if we know we're going up against another greedy one or such, use more standard bolts for general use.
 
So if we go for 3 actions on rune metal part 3 we get 5 of the 10 needed down, putting us in striking range. That then lets us see how the situation changes next turn to figure out if we can afford to complete it or need to go and do Armed in Arms with 2 actions and using the favor and proc to finish it.

That would leave one action this turn which should be one of :
[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk, to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard-bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
or
[ ] Odd Places 2/10: Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness.



Basically I think we still have at least next turn to take actions, maybe two more turns. If we feel the pressure than

Current Turn (10)
[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
-[] 3 actions (procing for +2 to 5 total)
[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk, to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard-bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.

Turn 11 (Next turn) If threat is imminent for turn 12
[ ] [Simple] Write in, Armed in Arms: You cannot give them all Gromril plate, the cost too ruinous even for a Runelord, but you can make quite the number of Runic weapons and equipment. With the aid of a few of the older masters to keep the youngsters in line, perhaps enough for the hold in its entirety. It would be a massive undertaking. Your beard twitches fiercely, you don't know when but something will happen before this next century is out. A lot of your work will be in actually coordinating the disparate smiths in the hold into something of a cohesive unit. [Cost: 4 actions.] Productivity Like No Other Will proc.
-
[ ] Petition the Hold: Ask King Otrek and the Elder council for aid in managing the logistics of the project and incorporate it into his larger overall armament program. [Cost: 5 Favour with the Hold and King Otrek] Reduce total action cost by 1
-[ ] 2 actions (proc plus favor total 4 to finish)
[ ] Difficult Higher Standard pt 2
-[ ] 1 or 2 actions on this

Turn 11 (Next turn) If we still have turn 12 for prep
[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
-[] 3 actions (procing for +2 to 5 total) this would than fininsh
[ ] Difficult Higher Standard pt 2
-[ ] 1 action
 
I'm not sure about the gromril javelins with flying on them, they simultaneously seem like huge overkill and too little bang for their buck.

Like, unless you're specifically shooting at the biggest of the big demons, or a steam tank or something, isn't a gromril clad tip pretty much good enough for everything else?

I'd like to suggest that we make a really great bolt thrower, but only make one or two of the uber gromril javelins, and only use those javelins if we know we're going up against another greedy one or such, use more standard bolts for general use.
Its also an entire other request, so we'd basically have to do it next turn.
 
We for one you can't put Flying and Valaya onto the Ammo unless the Valaya rune is the simple Rune of Valaya and not the Master Rune.
Sure, Valaya is meant more for the anti-magic properties rather than heavier anti-daemon properties anyway.

Its about giving an extra bit of oomph to help keep magic from blocking the attack successfully, so that good old kinetic force can do its job unimpeded.
 
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