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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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So... Just thinking about stuff in bed, and I had an interesting thought regarding the earlier conversation about Snorri becoming an Ancestor... And I kinda wonder... What about him becoming Snorri, Ancestor of Industry? Maximum effect for your efforts, including pulling off industrial scales of things. It's kinda in his wheelhouse, with a complete lack of care for radical or conservative and complete attention on being useful, effectiveness.... Though it'd probably take quite awhile...

And I kinda wonder if at some point thousands of years from now when we are the oldest living runesmith if we'll be expected to move to karaz a karak to be on the center of things and lead the runesmiths.
 
So... Just thinking about stuff in bed, and I had an interesting thought regarding the earlier conversation about Snorri becoming an Ancestor... And I kinda wonder... What about him becoming Snorri, Ancestor of Industry? Maximum effect for your efforts, including pulling off industrial scales of things. It's kinda in his wheelhouse, with a complete lack of care for radical or conservative and complete attention on being useful, effectiveness.... Though it'd probably take quite awhile...

And I kinda wonder if at some point thousands of years from now when we are the oldest living runesmith if we'll be expected to move to karaz a karak to be on the center of things and lead the runesmiths.
eh can't exactly force these things though, we can't push him in that direction if it happens it happen if so yah if not then sad but we will survive
 
Metalheart. Metalheart. Igna Metalheart.
but now she realizes that among the very many victims of those dark days were several key members of the Clergy, Warrior Thanes and Runesmiths of Clan Metalheart.
Oh no.
of the last Runesmiths of Clan Metalheart creating the Wardstones that kept them safe from the scrying of the enemy. Of them dying one after the other over the decades, their apprentices killed and the Clan left with no dwarfs to teach the ancient craft to those who possessed The Gift.
Oh No!
 
[x] Tunnels: Take the paths down to the ritual site.
[X] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
- [X] to aid the evacuation.
 
So... Just thinking about stuff in bed, and I had an interesting thought regarding the earlier conversation about Snorri becoming an Ancestor... And I kinda wonder... What about him becoming Snorri, Ancestor of Industry? Maximum effect for your efforts, including pulling off industrial scales of things. It's kinda in his wheelhouse, with a complete lack of care for radical or conservative and complete attention on being useful, effectiveness.... Though it'd probably take quite awhile...
Its not. Industry and runesmithing are two things that do not belong together, at least not in the sense this implies. Runesmithing is an art and worship, mass production of things does not go together with it. I would go so far as to say it is a sacrilege. This has been something that was being talked about in the thread at least once, and especially dug up during the prosthesis outfit mass action.

Besides, if any Runesmith ever becomes an ancestor, which i somewhat doubt, because most of the positions are filled, and the only one left is Grombrindal, it would be Snerra. It seems the gift of Runes shines in her with awesome power.
 
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In maybe three thousand years from now, Snorri could become a 'Junior' Ancestor of Runesmiths.

If we were from now, plus minus 500 years, then he could become a 'junior' Ancestor of war.
 
The dwarves worship many more Ancestors than the core seven, they're just the universally worshipped ones. The others are more specific Ancestors worshipped by clans or sets of clans.
Its not. Industry and runesmithing are two things that do not belong together, at least not in the sense this implies. Runesmithing is an art and worship and mass production of things does not go together with it. I would go so far as to say it is a sacrilege. This has been something that was being talked about in the thread at least once, and especially dug up during the prosthesis outfit mass action.

Andy Warhol would disapprove.

So would all the print makers that have ever lived, who you're unilaterally declaring not to have been artists.
 
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The dwarves worship many more Ancestors than the core seven, they're just the universally worshipped ones. The others are more specific Ancestors worshipped by clans or sets of clans.


Andy Warhol would disapprove.

So would all the print makers that have ever lived, who you're unilaterally declaring not to have been artists.
@pucflek:
Runesmithing is an art and worship and mass production of things does not go together with it.
I think this part of your post needs a comma somewhere :b
 
From the sounds of things in their ancestor worship dwarfs more specifically worship their heroes, most of all those they're either related too or have cultural ties too. The Ancestor Gods are the greatest of all dwarf heroes. They're true heroes that shaped all of dwarf society in undeniable ways and performed many great and seemingly impossible deeds, so they're revered by all dwarfs. Snorri is a living Ancestor by virtue of his age and notable because of his deeds, so he's a minor Hero that would be spoken of and revered in places like Draka, this hold, and perhaps the north as a whole even thousands of years after his death. His clan will definitely never forget him.

He's not going to become a meaningful ancestor god though because he isn't the source of and embodiment of some massive advancement in dwarf society and isn't some ancient demi-god. Just being old wouldn't be enough for that.

Give him long enough and he'll probably approach the importance of folks like the notable children of the Ancestor Gods that are still running around though.
 
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Andy Warhol would disapprove.

So would all the print makers that have ever lived, who you're unilaterally declaring not to have been artists.
Ah yes, Andy Warhol, the famous dwarf ancestor that can offer many examples of how race of non-humans thinks of their craft.

I think this part of your post needs a comma somewhere :b
You are not wrong, but commas are hard. Just imagine it's there somewhere :V
 
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[X] Tunnels: Take the paths down to the ritual site.

[X] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
- [X] to aid the evacuation.

As for Ancestor discussion, Snorri is already Dwarf Santa, so if he were to reach true Ancestor God-hood, I imagine it would be in the capital-G Generosity, and rearing (his many, many apprentices and spreading around the practice of taking apprentices in batches)/protecting (couldn't care less about politics, but treaten Davi, get Zhargal to the face, you and your entire army) the young (by virtue that almost everyone he deals with extensively being younger than him).
 
As for Ancestor discussion, Snorri is already Dwarf Santa, so if he were to reach true Ancestor God-hood, I imagine it would be in the capital-G Generosity, and rearing (his many, many apprentices and spreading around the practice of taking apprentices in batches)/protecting (couldn't care less about politics, but treaten Davi, get Zhargal to the face, you and your entire army) the young (by virtue that almost everyone he deals with extensively being younger than him).

I have a terrible idea.

Snorri meets the POWER OF YOUTH!

... I think its out of my system now.

There's that sidestory about the tradition of gift giving, which would be a nice thing to do though
 
[X] Tunnels: Take the paths down to the ritual site.
Is there any other choice? You aren't sure frankly. For all you know, that explosion was the ritual blowing up in the sorcerer's face but was that a gamble you were willing to make? Few were more durable and none as good at dispelling enemy magic as you are thats for certain. If the worst came to pass down there you'd be in the best position to intervene. But you'd have to leave the Throng to its own devices and hope they can hold out long enough.

[X] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
- [X] to aid the evacuation.

Snorri absolutely a one man army, and anything between him and Prophet are multch. Let alone his ability to dispel Magic's. Also sending our hearth guard like that is EXACTLY what they were meant to do. So this is my vote
 
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Its not. Industry and runesmithing are two things that do not belong together, at least not in the sense this implies.
Not industrial making runes, but say we make a Gronti assembly line able to match the production of entire engineering guild all by itself. That is just flexing.
 
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Not industrial making runes, but say we make a Gronti assembly line able to match the production of entire engineering guild all by itself. That is just flexing.

That would be pretty awesome to see. Or potentially a gronti designed to mimic the actions of an engineer so that when they build a thing, so to does the gronti.

Really though I just want to see Snorri do more work on runic engineering.
 
In maybe three thousand years from now, Snorri could become a 'Junior' Ancestor of Runesmiths.

If we were from now, plus minus 500 years, then he could become a 'junior' Ancestor of war.
As others have stated, becoming very old is only likely to net you worship of your Clan, and maybe hold if you've got the chops, post-death.

Becoming an Ancestor God, even a minor one like Grombrindal (at least compared to the big 7) requires either:
- Extreme age + a wealth of feats
- Very extreme age.

and even then there's a soft cap between where Grombrindal would be and the greater Ancestor Gods.
From the sounds of things in their ancestor worship dwarfs more specifically worship their heroes, most of all those they're either related too or have cultural ties too. The Ancestor Gods are the greatest of all dwarf heroes. They're true heroes that shaped all of dwarf society in undeniable ways and performed many great and seemingly impossible deeds, so they're revered by all dwarfs. Snorri is a living Ancestor by virtue of his age and notable because of his deeds, so he's a minor Hero that would be spoken of and revered in places like Draka, this hold, and perhaps the north as a whole even thousands of years after his death. His clan will definitely never forget him.

He's not going to become a meaningful ancestor god though because he isn't the source of and embodiment of some massive advancement in dwarf society and isn't some ancient demi-god. Just being old wouldn't be enough for that.
This sums it up pretty well. You literally have to reshape Dwarf society and positively impact it enough that they adopt your ideas. Either through the creation of an entire Craftguild like with Thungni or Morgrim, becoming so big brain at an existing one you basically suborn it entirely like Smednir or create one of the bedrock(heh) traditions and cultural maxims that steer Dwarf society at large.

Again this is all very ROUGH since you aren't likely to see this sort of scale for a long time, if ever, but it goes something like this maybe?

To preface, I make a distinction between an Ancestor God and an Ancestor. Both are worshipped, only the former is seen in any way close to divinity as humans understand it. Dwarfs, I don't think, would make too much of a distinction really.

Greater Ancestor Gods:
What needs to be said? The big seven, universally worshipped by every Dwarf, and here's the important part, while they're still alive. Grungni, Valaya, Grimnir, Gazul, Thungni, Smednir and Morgrim. Even here there's maybe a degree of very slight separation, with the older four being above the younger three in terms of impact.

Minor Ancestor Gods(?):
Here is sorta where the God part comes into contention tbh.
The upper tiers of this category would be the supreme Cultural heroes of Dwarfdom like Grombrindal. So old, and so storied that there isn't a Hold or Dwarf out there that doesn't know about at least three dozen of the stories about them. Worship of him is minor, almost unseen, but you wouldn't be surprised if it existed. If he died, like confirmed for sure death in front of enough people and for a significant enough reason, then every Dwarf would pray to him in some fashion afterwards. Though I admit Grombrindal is sorta straddling the line between this tier and the next, he's effectively the soft cap in terms of age + deeds I mentioned earlier. He won't fully cross over unless he does something institution or tradition making ya know?

The lower levels would be the great Kings and Heroes of Dwarfkind, though only post mortem. Dwarfs like Kadrin Redmane, Gotrek Starbreaker, Kurgaz, Alric Thungnisson, Katalin Kandoom, Dorin Heldour and the like. Note that in this bottom tier, very few save their Clan or Hold would consider them an Ancestor God. Being from the same region, bloodline, etc as these Dwarfs would be a source of great pride and obviously an example to live up to and if they have any worshippers outside their Clan or Hold it'd be in their region.

If there was a phrase to sum this category up it'd be: Acknowledged by the vast majority of Dwarfs to be of great significance and an example to follow, but still within the confines of existing systems. And/or, Dwarfs of incredible impact on society but the true acknowledgement of their deeds and value is limited to those in the know so to speak.

Okay from this point down, you sorta have to be dead full stop, no exceptions like in the upper tiers.

Hold Wide Ancestors:
What is says on the tin. Ancestors worshipped by the sum totality of a Hold. You would maybe be here given enough time. Pretty close I'd say. Which is to say, people from Kraka Drakk might pray to you in the nebulous future post your death. Known throughout the region, but not worshipped in any noticeable capacity outside your Hold.

Clan Specific Ancestors:
Again, what it says on the tin. You'd be here for sure.

oh and

DONT ASK ME WHERE GOTREK WOULD BE, HE'S SOME WEIRD LIMBO OF BEING REALLY FUCKING GOOD AT KILLING AND BEING A DWARF HERO, BUT REALLY BAD AT DOING HIS JOB AS A SLAYER. 2 or 3, if I was forced to answer? Guy has to die for me to give a verdict.

anywho, Ima lock the vote in.... let's say 2-3 hours? :^)
 
Could you make a suit of power armour by making a suit and making it a gronti?
I don't see why someone couldn't do so, but I don't think it's in our character, specialty, or in any way need tbh. Especially with our current armor seeing as it basically turns us into a gronti in and of itself. Reminds me of a royalroadl fic from years back I vaguely remember with a dwarf character making golem power armor though. Gonna have to see if I can dig it up because I can't stop thinking about it now.
 
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