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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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SideVermin13 said:
While a valid point i have to say something
We can make golems without spending a T5 item (Somethin
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Because the Master Rune of Awakening uses a Troll Heart, and we have a T5 Troll Heart

Ergo, we have a Rune thats already able to get the absolute most out of the Ingredient, thus enabling synergy to take it to greater heights.

If you want a T5 Meteor Combo-equipped weapon, get a Named Magma Dragon or something thatd spit out an ingredient of that level. But a Golem uses Troll Hearts.

And we've got one of the best of them to have or Will ever been on hand. You craft based on the ingredients available, throwing unsuitable components into the pot is a waste of the ingredient.

Especially when its irreplaceable.

veekie said:
The idea behind a T5 golem is the kind of thing you suit up in to duel a Bloodthirster with.
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Its a relevant concern, yeah. Plus the proposed Combos I mentioned would mean it could more than hold its own against any Elves that show up to boot.
 
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SideVermin13 said:
While a valid point i have to say something
We can make golems without spending a T5 item (Something so rare its pretty much a one of a kind) on it
Barring the material costs is the stability issues, how will we maintain our golem and repair it when it gets damaged or destroyed?(Keep in mind this can actually happen) how will we convince the others that its a viable investment? What materials would it require to be produced efficiently without wasting materials (like a finite gromril supply and troll parts)

At the end of the day, the golem (while cool and narratively appropriate) just isnt a viable use of a rare item
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I don't understand why this reasoning applies exclusively to robots. Why would anyone spend rare materials when you could just use ordinary steel? Well, presumably because the weapon made with special ingredients has the capacity to be much better than the standard version. Just so with the golem: a giant gatekeeping gromril guardian gnome made with the heart is going to be a lot cooler than a bog standard clay man animated with Snorri's tax receipts.

Same thing for maintenance, really. Why are we assuming the ggggg needs more of it than a magic weapon? It's not like it would be made with a lot of moving parts or hydraulics or whatever, it's literally a big statue come to life.
 
IronFist said:
A golem powered by the Greedy heart would be an incredible investment in the defence of the hold and the future of dwarfkind.

i fully expect such a golem to be able to regenerate itself (with some limits)
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What if the heart doesn't do that? What then?
At the very least we should study the heart first to see if its even safe
 
SideVermin13 said:
What if the heart doesn't do that?
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soulcake said:
Master Rune of Animation/Waking: Used to animate Rune Golems/Ancestor Golems/Gronti Duraz. Necessary Ingredients: [T2]Troll's Heart.
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soulcake said:
Tier 5]The Greedy One's Heart: Popped out of its body by a swift hammer blow from Snorri Gift Giver. The heart beats endlessly even when it has long since run out of blood, a piece of something from when it still was mortal. A fragment of a troll that was.
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Uhhhhh

Dunno how to tell you this fam

But the Informational Threadmarks exist for a reason
 
'If we can wish for anything, we should wish for more wishes.'

The T5 item is like a wish so we should use it to make a super forge to make better weapons/armour/toys/stuff than normally possible. If the normal max modifier a master Blacksmith could make was say, random number, +150, and the dude with the forges of Snorri /North Dwarves/Whatever can make +180, that makes a pretty big goddamn difference.
 
SideVermin13 said:
What if the heart doesn't do that? What then?
At the very least we should study the heart first to see if its even safe
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OF course we're going to study it first. We're an OLD DWARF RUNELORD. It goes without saying.

I'm also open to other ideas, however I am not in favor of making a weapon out of it at this point.

The Golem is the likeliest use though.
 
TehChron said:
Uhhhhh

Dunno how to tell you this fam

But the Informational Threadmarks exist for a reason
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Thats the requirements for the rune, im talking about if it has any adverse effects being around us/stored or used in a way that doesnt destroy it.
This things been hopped up on demon juice and warp steroids to the point that it is still alive long after the troll died, i refuse to believe that there are no negative effects involved with it.
 
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Shaper47 said:
If we can wish for anything, we should wish for more wishes.'
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Theres a reason why no one does that, and it has everything to do with the guy having the power to grant wishes also be the one capable of taking them away.

We're still early into the Quest. There will be an opportunity to find something fitting to make such a legendary forge later on

Rather than pinning your hopes on a powerful, but incompatible, ingredient

SideVermin13 said:
Thats the requirements for the rune, im talking about if it has any adverse effects being around us/stored or used in a way that doesnt destroy it.
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???

Beating such properties out of an ingredient before using it is what Runecraft is, though. Literally hammering the chaos out of the winds of magic in order to put those energies to better use. Thats the kind of thing that'll happen during the course of using it normally.
 
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TehChron said:
Theres a reason why no one does that, and it has everything to do with the guy having the power to grant wishes also be the one capable of taking them away.

We're still early into the Quest. There will be an opportunity to find something fitting to make such a legendary forge later on

Rather than pinning your hopes on a powerful, but incompatible, ingredient


???

Beating such properties out of an ingredient before using it is what Runecraft is, though. Literally hammering the chaos out of the winds of magic in order to put those energies to better use. Thats the kind of thing that'll happen during the course of using it normally.
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I cannot stress this enough, im talking about the heart as it is Right now, No runesmithing, at all, and in its fully intact state locked in a box somewhere.
 
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SideVermin13 said:
I cannot stress this enough, im talking about the heart as it is Right now, No runesmithing, at all, and in its fully intact state
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It would help if you used longer sentences. I have no idea what you are referring to.
We have an option to study the heart, and it takes 4 options. Before we do anything with it we'll complete that action.
Unless you mean to study our storage procedure of the heart as a raw material, to make sure it's not regrowing a demon troll around it. But I expect Snorri did that already before storing it in the first place, as part of due course.
Snorri is no beardling, after all.
 
IronFist said:
It would help if you used longer sentences. I have no idea what you are referring to.
We have an option to study the heart, and it takes 4 options. Before we do anything with it we'll complete that action.
Unless you mean to study our storage procedure of the heart as a raw material, to make sure it's not regrowing a demon troll around it. But I expect Snorri did that already before storing it in the first place, as part of due course.
Snorri is no beardling, after all.
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Apologies for the short sentences, i tend to shorten them when im tired
Back to the subject at hand. I'd want to check if the hearts still just a heart and not slowly regrowing into a demonic troll-sized threat to the hold or leaking chaos all over the place (we may be more resistant to chaos but as the Dawi-Zharr prove, we arent immune) or something equally as bad.
 
Basically, we have a reasonable belief that the Troll Heart is good for:
-Master Runes of Animation - Being a higher tier version of the normal reagent(Troll Hearts), it definitely works.
-Regeneration Talismans - Being an adjacent material to the normal reagent(Troll Blood), it probably works.
-Specific Fuck Troll Runes - Being a powerful representative of the target marker material, it should work. Trolls being not THAT important in the grand scheme of things its probably a little wasted though.
-Ice/Cold Runes - Being the heart of a creature with ice for blood.

With a possibility of getting more than one effect, like, how much better CAN a Golem be without being sapient? Look at where the overflow quality can go. Perhaps the golem could regenerate, perhaps we trade it off for being really huge and telling the Square Cube law to go fuck itself(may need a Giant reagent), perhaps the golem is covered with ice, or perhaps the golem acts as a signal booster to other golem units.
 
veekie said:
With a possibility of getting more than one effect, like, how much better CAN a Golem be without being sapient?
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I mean, individual esoteric properties aside, being a superlative army-killing battering ram is pretty great on its own merits.

Acting as a coordinating element for Karak Drakk Golems in particular just means they'd be able to avoid the dangers inherent to coming across a superior or just more cunning force.
 
I wonder if it would be possible to make a Golem-mech piloted by a living dwarf.

Perhaps some adaption of a Rune of Brotherhood on a control item paired with one on the Golem.
 
BungieONI said:
Well, they are artists. By way of making something impressive enough its entirely possible to inspire other artists of the same craft to derive their own works from ours. No Runesmith would directly copy another's work except in the instance of an Apprentice learning from a Master but that's not necessarily restrictive when you actually get down to it.
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The idea I had in my head was that each golem made would be unique enough to satisfy that artists itch, to the point future generations can point at a specific one and say "That one was made by Gorrik Orcbane, to commemorate the Battle of Three Warbosses."

I've no idea whether they'd have a standard size (presumably not) but I figured they'd be a cut above normal golems in quality at least, though there's an argument to be made that normal golems are meant to be masterworks anyway, as I've described them.
 
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Before we try to make a Dwarf Golem Army, first of all, the Heart itself should be researched so we can find some viable alternatives for it's use. It might be possible to use it to make a supercharged rune of Valaya for the Priesthood, or to make armor that heals its wearer or a weapon that can repair itself. Let's take a look at our options and decide which good option is the one we want to do.

Second, we could make an army of golems, but it would only ever be a supplemental force. Dwarfs will not let themselves be replaced by golems, it's a part of their mentality and culture, if something is worth doing, then it's worth a Dwarf doing it.

Third, making an army of golems is a neat idea, but I feel like it would be kind of boring, not to mention presumably a time sink depending on how many decades it would take to build one golem.
 
An army of golems seems like a less good idea than a super-golems to deal with very hard/big targets that dwarves often struggle with, particularly in these pre-gunpowder days.
 
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The Heart of Greed powered Golem is something we would do ourselves. This is project Ymir, a golem of legendary power.

The Army of Golems is a separat thing. Snorri would only create one: Project Ymir. The rest of the golems would be created by Runesmiths wishing to take up residence in Kraka Drakk. We have a king that loves the power of runes and who reveres us slightly less than the Ancestor gods. If we ask him to establish the tradition that every Master Runesmith must contribute a golem or rune guardian to the hold, he will do it.

The idea of having (relatively) lots of rune golems is not to replace dwarfs in combat, but to supplement them.
When we are eventually drowning in demonic hordes, having a cadre of rune enhanced, tireless warriors would save a lot of dwarf lives.

Mind you, we don't exactly know how big Runic Golems are, but my guess would be around the same height as a big ogre, 10 to 15 feet tall. I make this guess based on the dimensions we are given for Rune Guardians, the successor technology from around the war of the Beard, when Golem technology became lost to dwarfs.

At least that is how I envision Golems.

I'm also unsure they were made completely out of Metal. Rune Guardians are made of metal, but they are also hollow constructs. The likelihood of the Golems being solid metal is low, a combination of Stone and Gromril being much more likely.

If we go for a Giant sized golem, this is also the way we'd go, as a Giant sized Adamant golem would be ruinously expensive on a scale where even our fantastic wealth won't cut it. Also, a Giant Sized golem takes it out of "Personal Projects" and puts it as a hold project. It's would be much to labour intensive.
 
IronFist said:
If we go for a Giant sized golem, this is also the way we'd go, as a Giant sized Adamant golem would be ruinously expensive on a scale where even our fantastic wealth won't cut it. Also, a Giant Sized golem takes it out of "Personal Projects" and puts it as a hold project. It's would be much to labour intensive.
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Would it, though?

*gestures towards 9 Standing and 100 Favors*
 
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