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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
The Lement vote is clearly suicidal given Homura and Mami's suspicions.

[x]Muramasa

for lack of time/it being the better option.
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Even as I made that vote in jest and to provoke thought (nonsrs vote do not bandwagon), I do not think Homura and Mami would try to kill us so easily.

For Homura, as far as bonds go, she may be not even two weeks old, but Sabrina's deeds are impressive in both words and actions. System breaker, indeed.

With her irrationality, Sabrina may not necessarily be as great threat as Wally with her 100% Madoka kill rate, but she is our ally.

And for Mami.....It is even less likely. She is only going to step up against us if she thinks it does us good in her current state.

Maybe Sasa Yuki would try to kill us if we killed her pet witches.

But Homura or Mami, for merely suggesting killing them to prevent greater threat? No. That level of shadowruns is completely unwarranted. Like, these two hate witches so much they kill them more often than they go grocery shopping.
 
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Muramasa said:
[x] It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test.
[x] Before we go on, it's probably better to restate some facts.
-[x] 1. While possibly connected, the incident with Sayaka, the feather's appearance, and the changes in Oriko's visions are not necessarily related.
--[x] It's quite possible none of it's related, and that this is just a coincidence.
-[x] 2. If feathers is real, it's not necessarily responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could've been giving us a warning that something... strange was about to happen.
-[x] 3. Oriko was seeing feathers long before I ever constructed a barrier. If you believe she's telling the truth, her entire motivation up to this point was to stop... whatever it is.
--[x] If that's the case, why not just go after me then? She went about an overly convoluted plot to help us fight this thing and a simple solution was right in front of her.

[x] Cleanse yourself. Offer cleansing to everyone else.
[X] "You know what?" *Silently ask for Mami to hand you the feather* "I believe we have an enemy stronger than Walpurgisnacht incoming, and it's messing with us."
[x] Put the feather away.
[X] "It doesn't matter. We can win; No. We will win. We'll beat it, just like we'll beat Walpurgis."
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How about condensing this a little?

[X] "I... Maybe." Shrug, smile for Mami. "I don't know."
[X] Silently ask for Mami to hand you the feather.
[X] To both: "Hear me out: This... whole thing might be just a huge coincidence, or at least this 'Feathers' thing doesn't have to be hostile; this might just be a warning, as much as it freaks me out.
-[X] Put feather away.
[X] But I don't think this was caused by my powers, nor that Oriko was behind it, or even Kyuubey.
[X] Sigh. Cleanse yourself.
[X] "You know what I think? I believe we have an enemy stronger than Walpurgisnacht incoming, and it's messing with us. I believe it as much as I believe anything else."
[X] "But whatever it is, we can take it. We'll beat it as we'll beat Walpurgisnacht, together."
[X] Offer cleansing.

I want the 'cleansing others' part at the end, as a way to ask for trust. An agreement of sorts, after we've said our piece.
 
Onmur said:
How about condensing this a little?

[X] "I... Maybe." Shrug, smile for Mami. "I don't know."
[X] Silently ask for Mami to hand you the feather.
[X] To both: "Hear me out: This... whole thing might be just a huge coincidence, or at least this 'Feathers' thing doesn't have to be hostile; this might just be a warning, as much as it freaks me out.
-[X] Put feather away.
[X] But I don't think this was caused by my powers, nor that Oriko was behind it, or even Kyuubey.
[X] Sigh. Cleanse yourself.
[X] "You know what I think? I believe we have an enemy stronger than Walpurgisnacht incoming, and it's messing with us. I believe it as much as I believe anything else."
[X] "But whatever it is, we can take it. We'll beat it as we'll beat Walpurgisnacht, together."
[X] Offer cleansing.

I want the 'cleansing others' part at the end, as a way to ask for trust. An agreement of sorts, after we've said our piece.
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I don't think this does enough to refute the implications of what's being said though. How do we convince Homura that we're not a threat?
 
Muramasa said:
I don't think this does enough to refute the implications of what's being said though. How do we convince Homura that we're not a threat?
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I think I'd rather ask for blind trust at this exact moment, and try to reason with her later. It's pretty much what we've been doing so far?

If we're to add some reasons, we need to do it a... subtle? manner.

EDIT: I think we need to hinge on the fact that Homura won't want to believe Sabrina's the enemy. She's put so much stock in her, if this was to go down the drain like that, it might just break her.
 
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Firnagzen said:
"Do your powers have anything to do with this?" Homura asks, voice quiet. Her weight shifts again, balanced, hands hanging loosely at her side. She's not exactly tense, but... something about the set of her shoulders suggests worry.
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Here is where Homura first asked if our powers have anything to do with "Feathers". She's worried about the possibility, sure, but she's asking us because she trusts us.

Firnagzen said:
The time traveller's eyes flick down to the feather for a moment, before returning to regarding you in stony silence. She shakes her head, and Mami's smile fades, the hand holding the feather dropping back to her side.
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Here is where Homura had the opportunity to look at the Feather and verify that it doesn't feel witchy like one of our constructs would. Then we told her that the Barrier did not create a Feather the previous time we did it and we promised not to make any more Barriers.

And then Mami brought up the possibility of our Barrier acting as a lightning rod for Witch activity.

That's it. Nothing in the updates that I can spot shows anything that would indicate that Homura thinks that we are a threat.
 
boonerunner said:
Here is where Homura first asked if our powers have anything to do with "Feathers". She's worried about the possibility, sure, but she's asking us because she trusts us.


Here is where Homura had the opportunity to look at the Feather and verify that it doesn't feel witchy like one of our constructs would. Then we told her that the Barrier did not create a Feather the previous time we did it and we promised not to make any more Barriers.

And then Mami brought up the possibility of our Barrier acting as a lightning rod for Witch activity.

That's it. Nothing in the updates that I can spot shows anything that would indicate that Homura thinks that we are a threat.
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It's what she's not telling. She's hasn't given any signals other than 'intentionally cautiously neutral' for the past update.
 
boonerunner said:
Here is where Homura first asked if our powers have anything to do with "Feathers". She's worried about the possibility, sure, but she's asking us because she trusts us.


Here is where Homura had the opportunity to look at the Feather and verify that it doesn't feel witchy like one of our constructs would. Then we told her that the Barrier did not create a Feather the previous time we did it and we promised not to make any more Barriers.

And then Mami brought up the possibility of our Barrier acting as a lightning rod for Witch activity.

That's it. Nothing in the updates that I can spot shows anything that would indicate that Homura thinks that we are a threat.
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The implication of our barrier luring feathers here is bad enough.

She takes a deep breath, looking up at you. "Maybe it's something like a lightning rod? When y-you make a Barrier, some... Witch powers are, are, drawn in, s-somehow? L-like calls to like?"

Homura's attention shifts to Mami. Neutral, silent, barely moving. Almost a statue, for all the emotion she's displaying, and nearly as still as everything in the frozen world of the timestop.

Mami notices, frowning at Homura. "I... don't you think so, Homura? S-Sabrina?"
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Honestly, you can't see that boone? You don't see Homura reacting poorly to Mami's theory? What else is she supposed to think?
 
[] I don't believe that's the case here, but I won't deny the possibility that whoever or whatever is behind the feathers can reach through my barriers to mess with things. Like I said, I'll refrain from any more experimentation along those lines until it's deemed safe.

-[] I can, if you wish, continue with properly supervised barrier creation if you want to try to draw a reaction out for more clues, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth.


Either of those help?
 
Muramasa said:
The implication of our barrier luring feathers here is bad enough.
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"Feathers" was always going to show up. At worst, we lured it more quickly. And personally, I don't even think that that is the case.

Honestly, you can't see that boone? You don't see Homura reacting poorly to Mami's theory? What else is she supposed to think?
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Onmur said:
It's what she's not telling. She's hasn't given any signals other than 'intentionally cautiously neutral' for the past update.
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I disagree with your assumption that Homura is assuming that we're a danger right now. I don't think that's justified by the update or by our past relationship (Homura has been extremely trusting of us, all told). And even if you do think that Homura might be thinking that we're dangerous, it would be better to ask her. Like Mami is doing.

Communication must be a two-way street or else it doesn't work. That was our problem in the last conversation with Homura.
 
boonerunner said:
"Feathers" was always going to show up. At worst, we lured it more quickly. And personally, I don't even think that that is the case.



I disagree with your assumption that Homura is assuming that we're a danger right now. I don't think that's justified by the update or by our past relationship (Homura has been extremely trusting of us, all told). And even if you do think that Homura might be thinking that we're dangerous, it would be better to ask her. Like Mami is doing.

Communication must be a two-way street or else it doesn't work. That was our problem in the last conversation with Homura.
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Dude, it's Homura. She's always had problems with communication. Waiting for her to talk is going to end with us dropped out of timestop or something. It's clear that she's worried we're a danger and we have to address that.
 
Onmur said:
Homura's answer to Mami:

Homura's attention shifts to Mami. Neutral, silent, barely moving. Almost a statue, for all the emotion she's displaying, and nearly as still as everything in the frozen world of the timestop.
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She's thinking about Mami's question. Obviously. This is not a response. And we shouldn't assume that we know what she's thinking when she explicitly isn't displaying any emotion at all.

Honestly, it's quite disturbing that my suggestion to ask Homura to talk to us is being met with such antagonism. Is it any wonder that we have trouble with social things if we can't even agree that trying to get our friends to talk to us is a good idea?
 
boonerunner said:
She's thinking about Mami's question. Obviously. This is not a response. And we shouldn't assume that we know what she's thinking when she explicitly isn't displaying any emotion at all.

Honestly, it's quite disturbing that my suggestion to ask Homura to talk to us is being met with such antagonism. Is it any wonder that we have trouble with social things if we can't even agree that trying to get our friends to talk to us is a good idea?
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We're saying Homura is considering that we might be a threat and that we need to make our argument against such quickly. She's known to just run off, or end the conversation in some other way. Just waiting for her to talk is going to cause an awkward silence, and asking her to talk will cause either an awkward silence, or something worse. It's pretty heavily implied that she's considering whether we're a threat. We have to talk here.
 
Gadjo said:
Did she now? Seems like you'd leave a bigger bomb if you wanted to kill a meguca, not something that only managed to mangle our leg.
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I have the impression we've pointed this out in the past to no result, but I can't find it.

Maybe I'm imagining things... Going to sleep, then.

I think I've said my mind: Homura might be losing faith, and we haven't helped by showing doubt in ourselves. We need to stop that, show confidence.

Ironically, we need to ask Homura to trust us, in some way. From the beginning, she's been very... accomodating with us, supposedly due to the Madowish theory, but the fact is that she's gone along with our plans even when she didn't want to (we really owe her), and even when the reasons we gave her weren't very good.

At some point she realized we got better results than her, and being the pragmatic girl she is, she gave us that as a reason for why she'd let us keep Oriko. Maybe she believes it, maybe not, but in the end, Homura's relationship with Sabrina is one with a lot of faith.

Lastly, I think she's finally considering the idea that there might be something worse than Walpurgisnacht out there, and is scared. Everything has gone out of her control as it is, she doesn't know how to cope, and now she's got to accept there's something worse than the enemy she could never beat? Bullshit.

And oh, hey, it's either that or that this person she's trusted so goddamned much is the bigger threat? That's just too much. <- This is what I think we can use. The possibility that Sabrina's the enemy is just too damn bad to consider. Better to accept this new threat and keep trusting, right?

There's probably things I'm missing, but for now, good night.
 
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I'm not saying my votes the answer but leaving Homu to stew in this mindset any longer then we absolutely have to is an immensely poor idea.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Perspective. That's how we see it, and it's almost completely likely that's also what the facts are. But how does someone paranoid about Oriko see it?
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Seems to me Homura would at least be able to acknowledge that Oriko could have left a much deadlier bomb. But that's not the point. You seem to have many reservations about the vote. Got a better idea? Because just waiting for her to talk or asking her and waiting is right out. We do need to make our point somehow, not let Homu stew on this line of thought without interruption.
 
Maybe we should be getting ready to rock Homura if things start to go south? Just a healthy dose of paranoia considering that she may well be reconsidering our threat level.
 
Homura trusts us. Mami revealed one possible way that the Barriers we have created in the past might be have attracted danger. Is that enough to overturn the past week and a half of trust and cause Homura to ignore all of the good we have done and start treating us as a threat? Somehow, I doubt it. And even if that is the case, I want to hear it from her.

Operating on an assumption that Homura has gone murderface on us is not reasonable.
 
cmwatford said:
Maybe we should be getting ready to rock Homura if things start to go south? Just a healthy dose of paranoia considering that she may well be reconsidering our threat level.
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That's a bad idea. No only will increase her trust issues with us, but it could backfire spectacularly if she can get use her timestop before we can get her 100m from her body.

Really the only good part of that plan is that it gives us an opportunity to shout "Your soul is mine!". I'm pretty sure we should wait to do that at a latter point with someone we neither like nor need to maintain a working relationship with.
 
I'm not saying definitely snatch her away. I'm saying maybe make it a conditional for if she looks like she's about to do something stupid. I doubt she'd notice a few marbles moving into position to grab her.
 
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