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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Homura's earlier thoughts were that we were similar to Madoka, right? Perhaps we're bringing up those times where Madoka just didn't listen, so determined and kind and nice and heroic that she would just do something stupid anyways, even if it was dangerous? No matter how many times Homura tries to convince Madoka not to contract, she usually does anyways - perhaps she's so used to that, to her friends ignoring her and thinking they know better, that she doesn't see a point to trying to reason with us?
 
Firnagzen said:
Mami notices, frowning at Homura. "I... don't you think so, Homura? S-Sabrina?"
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This is how the previous update ended. Homura is reserved, yes, but we would be doing both her and Mami a great disservice if we started talking about a bunch of things and thus prevented Homura from responding to Mami's question. We've done plenty of talking in the past. Let's take this opportunity to listen.
 
[] Doubtful, but if you really want to test it out I could create another barrier with you two supervising, and see if there are any reactions or other oddities.
-[] Regardless of that though, it wouldn't explain why Sayaka was the only one targeted, or why Sayaka's parents were sleeping so early.
 
boonerunner said:
This is how the previous update ended. Homura is reserved, yes, but we would be doing both her and Mami a great disservice if we started talking about a bunch of things and thus prevented Homura from responding to Mami's question. We've done plenty of talking in the past. Let's take this opportunity to listen.
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Homura will have the opportunity to speak her mind after we've spoken ours. The implications that have been thrown down are too dangerous to go unchallenged. So let's voice the objections and then Homura can say whatever she wants.
 
Muramasa said:
[x] It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test.
[x] Before we go on, it's probably better to restate some facts.
-[x] 1. While possibly connected, the incident with Sayaka, the feather's appearance, and the changes in Oriko's visions are not necessarily related.
--[x] It's quite possible none of it's related, and that this is just a coincidence.
-[x] 2. If feathers is real, it's not necessarily responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could've been giving us a warning that something... strange was about to happen.
-[x] 3. Oriko was seeing feathers long before I ever constructed a barrier. If you believe she's telling the truth, her entire motivation up to this point was to stop... whatever it is.
--[x] In that case, why not just kill me? She went about an overly convoluted plot to help us fight this thing and a simple solution was right in front of her.

[x] Cleanse yourself. Offer cleansing to everyone else.
[X] "You know what?" *Silently ask for Mami to hand you the feather* "I believe we have an enemy stronger than Walpurgisnacht incoming, and it's messing with us."
[x] Put the feather away.
[X] "It doesn't matter. We can win; No. We will win. We'll beat it, just like we'll beat Walpurgis."
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This vote currently says (in response to Mami's question) "It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test." And then it talks about a ton of other things before giving Homura any sort of chance to respond, after which Mami's original question to Homura will have been forgotten. I do want to open up the possibility of testing the Barrier with supervision from Mami and Homura. But at the absolute least we should listen to Homura.

[x] Let Homura respond to Mami before anything else.
 
boonerunner said:
This vote currently says (in response to Mami's question) "It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test." And then it talks about a ton of other things before giving Homura any sort of chance to respond, after which Mami's original question to Homura will have been forgotten. I do want to open up the possibility of testing the Barrier with supervision from Mami and Homura. But at the absolute least we should listen to Homura.

[x] Let Homura respond to Mami before anything else.
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You just completely ignored my argument.
 
boonerunner said:
This vote currently says (in response to Mami's question) "It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test." And then it talks about a ton of other things before giving Homura any sort of chance to respond, after which Mami's original question to Homura will have been forgotten. I do want to open up the possibility of testing the Barrier with supervision from Mami and Homura. But at the absolute least we should listen to Homura.

[x] Let Homura respond to Mami before anything else.
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Listening to Homura usually means two girls staring each other down in silence. :p
 
boonerunner said:
This is how the previous update ended. Homura is reserved, yes, but we would be doing both her and Mami a great disservice if we started talking about a bunch of things and thus prevented Homura from responding to Mami's question. We've done plenty of talking in the past. Let's take this opportunity to listen.
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Homura thinks we could be part of a huge threat to herself and Madoka. We need to not let her stew on that thought.
 
Going about it the wrong way, then. The whole approach feels wrong. Talking points are contradictory to what we were just saying, bringing up Oriko as if she was right is going to hit Homura's buttons harder, and the idea that things are just a coincidence is pretty thoroughly refuted because Homura was literally just saying there's no way what happened could be a coincidence. The whole point of our conversation so far is talking about how what happened isn't a coincidence.

The rest, problems too, but there's the big one.


And, seriously? "Why not just kill me?" Why say that?

EDIT: Oh, I also meant to say, the way everything is presented just strikes me as ignoring what other people think and more importantly, feel, in favor of presenting some kind of very logical argument that ignores the personal side of things entirely.
 
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The big problem as I see it is that Homura is losing faith in us, and honestly, we don't really any good concrete reasons for her not too...

What have we accomplished, really?

I'm starting to lose faith in us too, TBH.
 
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techsy730 said:
The big problem as I see it is that Homura is losing faith in us, and honestly, we don't really have anything to counter to that.

I'm starting to lose faith in us TBH.
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No, keep up the faith, we need it to survive the quest, as well as actually continue making progress here.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Going about it the wrong way, then. The whole approach feels wrong. Talking points are contradictory to what we were just saying, bringing up Oriko as if she was right is going to hit Homura's buttons harder, and the idea that things are just a coincidence is pretty thoroughly refuted because Homura was literally just saying there's no way what happened could be a coincidence. The whole point of our conversation so far is talking about how what happened isn't a coincidence.

The rest, problems too, but there's the big one.


And, seriously? "Why not just kill me?" Why say that?

EDIT: Oh, I also meant to say, the way everything is presented just strikes me as ignoring what other people think and more importantly, feel, in favor of presenting some kind of very logical argument that ignores the personal side of things entirely.
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I understand there being problems with the vote but we need to challenge the implications. We can't just leave that hanging.

And, seriously? "Why not just kill me?" Why say that?
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Why not? Sabrina is being implicated as unwittingly being responsible for feathers in the first place. If that's true why didn't Oriko go after Sabrina directly?

edited to be less blunt.

strikes me as ignoring what other people think
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We have a very good idea of what Homu is thinking right now. We're not ignoring it. We're panicking over it.
 
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Muramasa said:
I understand there being problems with the vote but we need to challenge the implications. We can't just leave that hanging.
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Challenge them differently, then. The line of argument given in the vote sucks.

Muramasa said:
Why not? Sabrina is being implicated as unwittingly being responsible for feathers in the first place. If that's true why didn't Oriko go after Sabrina directly?
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Because "Why not just kill me?" is an idea we absolutely don't want Homura to get herself.

Muramasa said:
We have a very good idea of what Homu is thinking right now. We're not ignoring it. We're panicking over it.
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It just doesn't work like that. Can you erase what's in her head by talking over it with a bunch of "maybe, maybe not"? It won't work.

You want to work through this particular problem, get it out into the open rather than just in her head.
 
Muramasa said:
Homura will have the opportunity to speak her mind after we've spoken ours.
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This is the part that I responded to earlier. Your vote says too much for Mami's original question to be relevant to Homura. If you modified the vote to bring up Mami's question again at the end of it, then that would be different. But you don't. The way your current vote is written, Mami's question to Homura will be lost in the shuffle unless Mami or Homura specifically exert themselves to talk over us.

The implications that have been thrown down are too dangerous to go unchallenged. So let's voice the objections and then Homura can say whatever she wants.
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Mami simply wondered if our Barrier could have been acting as a type of lightning rod for Witchy things. It's a valid concern, but it's not a terribly dangerous one from Homura's perspective. And we just promised not to make any Barriers at all so that danger doesn't even come into play.

If you're worried about some other unspoken implication from Mami's question, then you'll have to be more clear, because the only danger that Mami actually brought up was "Barrier=Witch bait".

Muramasa said:
We have a very good idea of what Homu is thinking right now. We're not ignoring it. We're panicking over it.
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Actually, I don't know what Homura is thinking right now. Because she hasn't said anything out loud. And even if I were pretty confident that I knew what she was thinking, it would still be more courteous to ask.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Challenge them differently, then. The line of argument given in the vote sucks.
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This is not even remotely helpful. You realize that right?



Because "Why not just kill me?" is an idea we absolutely don't want Homura to get herself.
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I still don't quite get the objection here but line edited.



It just doesn't work like that. Can you erase what's in her head by talking over it with a bunch of "maybe, maybe not"? It won't work.

You want to work through this particular problem, get it out into the open rather than just in her head.
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Not a bad idea. Not quite sure how to put that into words yet though.
 
Not only that, but taking Homura's perspective, Oriko did go after us directly. She provoked us, attempted to kill us by blowing us up, then enacted a multi-step plan that we still don't know the end goal of. Again, sticking with Homura's perspective, we aren't someone you can fight directly, so maybe that plan was her best chance of removing us from play. Homura is still worried about Oriko trying something to remove us, and said as much as recently as yesterday.

Only from the perspective of trusting Oriko's word does the argument "Why didn't she go after me directly?" work.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Not only that, but taking Homura's perspective, Oriko did go after us directly. She provoked us, attempted to kill us by blowing us up, then enacted a multi-step plan that we still don't know the end goal of. Again, sticking with Homura's perspective, we aren't someone you can fight directly, so maybe that plan was her best chance of removing us from play. Homura is still worried about Oriko trying something to remove us, and said as much as recently as yesterday.

Only from the perspective of trusting Oriko's word does the argument "Why didn't she go after me directly?" work.
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If she wanted us dead, we would have died back in Sendai. Kirika likes us, but when Oriko says jump Kirika says how high? Kirika could have just disabled our and Mami's powers while not affecting anyone else.

This is certainly not the time. But at some point we should ask how often she's actually had to stop Kyubey from trying to contract Madoka this time around.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Not only that, but taking Homura's perspective, Oriko did go after us directly. She provoked us, attempted to kill us by blowing us up, then enacted a multi-step plan that we still don't know the end goal of.
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Attempted to put a stop to the timestop hunt by putting us out of commission. That's not the same thing.

Again, sticking with Homura's perspective, we aren't someone you can fight directly, so maybe that plan was her best chance of removing us from play. Homura is still worried about Oriko trying something to remove us, and said as much as recently as yesterday.

Only from the perspective of trusting Oriko's word does the argument "Why didn't she go after me directly?" work.
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Oriko has had more than just that one opportunity to go after us, but we're still here, and to our knowledge hasn't acted against us since the timestop hunt. If we caused feathers she should still be acting to remove us but she hasn't done that.
 
Mami is worried about our Barrier and how it relates to witches in general and "Feathers" in particular. Shouldn't we talk about that before shifting the conversation back to Oriko?
 
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