Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Lordsservent · Jun 28, 2015

Onmur said:
"Then I will be the only o... I mean, then nobody will ever question m... I mean, then ALL THE GRIEF WILL BE MINE!... And less people will die. That, too."

That doesn't really sound that Sabrina like to me, but it is getting a little to that, but I really want us to pull away from that, and resecure Hormura's trust.

'Lement · Jun 28, 2015

Yeah, Sabrine would be more like

"And then we may have at least a bit of advantage warning next time the owner of feather comes."

*breathing heavily*

AuraTwilight · Jun 28, 2015

[x] Muramasa

Random832 · Jun 28, 2015

Onmur said:
So that's from the part of the movie where Homura's questioning/realizing who had made the fake Mitakihara.

Who do we know who has made a fake Mitakihara?

Onmur · Jun 28, 2015

Random832 said:
Who do we know who has made a fake Mitakihara?

I need a 'not sure if I should hit you with a rolled up newspaper' rating. I'll make do.

Muramasa · Jun 28, 2015

BeaconHill said:
If someone were proposing some way of testing whether our barrier is different, maybe using that to look for Feathers and surprise her ahead of time, I'd be all for it. No one is. We're proposing promising to Mami that we will not test it again, probably for literally years given the speed at which the quest moves.

I highly question our ability to surprise feathers at all. And our barriers are suspect to the point using them right now is dangerous for everyone involved. It's one test I can live without.

(We could have asked Kyubey if our barrier was different, even considering that we have to take everything he says with a giant mountain of salt, but instead we decided to piss him off for no reason. Oh well...)

We had reasons. And dealing with Kyubey is always going to be dangerous no matter what approach we take. More people just prefer not to deal with him at all if they can avoid it. And it's a perfectly valid approach.

Can we be absolutely certain our barriers have nothing to do with it? No, we can't. But we do know that a significant connection is ridiculously implausible.

Or not. We're not dealing with a problem based on logic.

Barrier creation has proven insanely powerful just in the one brief test we've already tried. With a power like this, we can save people.

The barrier has proven limited on several of the best idea's we had on saving people.

Many people. The onus is not on me to absolutely disprove your shadowrun; as you said, no one can. It's on you to prove that your shadowrun is so plausible that we need to stop trying to save people in order to placate it.

No it's not. If the method of saving people holds a possible danger to it, you find another safer method to do it. One that doesn't risk lives just as much as it does saving them.

Both Homura and Mami are worried about bigger, broader problems than this. They're not spooked by Feathers specifically -- they're worried we'll get ourself killed, or get Madoka killed. This is a long, broad pattern of behavior, and one promise won't erase that whole pattern.

No, but we're not helping things by continuing to use something that seen as blatantly dangerous to ourselves and everyone around us.

Sure, maybe we won't die this way if we keep our promise, but we've proven many times over our resourcefulness in finding new ways to put our life in danger.

No one ever said breaking the system was going to be easy.

(But, then again, how can I object? Look at how well that last promise worked, the one that lost us use of our precog. Homura never worried again, did she? )

The promise has worked fine, and the alternative, (alienating Homura) would've been much worse. Also, if you could take the smug arrogance out of your posts, I'd appreciate it.

landcollector · Jun 28, 2015

Muramasa said:
No one ever said breaking the system was going to be easy.

We're not making much, if any, progress though.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2015

universalperson said:
I noticed no-one brought this up, but this invisi-text from the update before the current update is a reference to Rebellion.

It's one of the runic messages that appear during the movie, and in the original movie release it was the last image before the credits. (The BD/DVD release changes the runes to read "Who had dreamt?"

While we're at it, trying to look up 'Who are you?' seems to be an exercise in futility.

There's 'Who am I?' written in runes with an stylized picture of Madoka during the 'Nightmare' scene in the same movie, and 'Who are you?' are exact words Homura says to Sayaka while looking for the Witch that's made the fake Mitakihara, accusing her for having knowledge of Witches she shouldn't have. Of course, 'who are you' is not exactly a strange combination of words.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2015

landcollector said:
We're not making much, if any, progress though.

We're on it. We're scheduled to go on the first cleansing trip of many, which will decrease the pressure of imminent death on megucas in the nearby cities. That'll help us foster cooperation.

Then we need to find the right megucas to help us help everybody else. We can start with finding which meguca's the one that's got informatics-based powers (Inoue Yuuki?) to get a fake ID, and in case we actually want to make the Best Exotic MamiGold Hotel in the future (need legal papers and shit).

If we make friends with some good, reliable megucas we could even distribute emptied Seeds.

boonerunner · Jun 28, 2015

Onmur said:
Not really, a Barrier would ping all the Witch radars, so we'd be a beacon for hostile megucas, and we would be putting our friends on edge with our mere presence. If we're gonna do that, we can simply will our grief to become super small, then we can carry however much we want in a single marble.

We've done that before, and the witchy marble felt extremely witchy: just as much if not more than the entrance to a Barrier. Though in either case it might be possible to put the marble/entrance 100 m in the air and out of the sensing range of most magical girls. Also, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even if we close the entrance and that it wouldn't feel witchy unless we were actively accessing it. Or if that doesn't work, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even when it's outside of our range. We haven't tested any of these things yet.

Muramasa said:
[] It's plausible. But it's not something I can really test.

Sure, we could test Mami's hypothesis. It would be easy. But we'd have to make a Barrier in order to do so. Personally, I'm in favor of modifying our promise to be "no experimentation without supervision" instead of "no experimentation at all".

-[] 1. While possibly connected, the incident with Sayaka, the feather's appearance, and the changes in Oriko's visions are not necessarily related.
--[] It's quite possible none of it's related, and that this is just a coincidence.

It's theoretically possible that the two are not related, but what are the odds that a Feather appearing in the Industrial District has nothing to do with a Feathers blocked vision about Sayaka being enticed to a Witch in the Industrial District? The odds of them being unconnected are too remote to bring this up as a possibility.

-[] 2. If feathers is real, it's not necessarily responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could've been giving us a warning that something... strange was about to happen.

This is theoretically possible. But it would require a third actor who was responsible for changing the timelines and who caused Elsa Maria to come to town early and Kiss Sayaka. The obvious suspect would be Kyuubey, but (as far as I know) he can't beat Oriko's visions. The simplest explanation is that both the Feather and the Kiss were caused by "Feathers". Note that "Feathers" still might not be hostile: the thing with Sayaka being Kissed could have been an accident or it could have known that we would save Sayaka.

[] "You know what?" *Silently ask for Mami to hand you the feather* "I believe we have an enemy stronger than Walpurgisnacht incoming, and it's messing with us."

The idea that "Feathers" is messing with us is another possibility that contradicts the ones mentioned previously.

Edit: changed ft to m.

Lordsservent · Jun 28, 2015

boonerunner said:
We've done that before, and the witchy marble felt extremely witchy: just as much if not more than the entrance to a Barrier. Though in either case it might be possible to put the marble/entrance 100 ft in the air and out of the sensing range of most magical girls. Also, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even if we close the entrance and that it wouldn't feel witchy unless we were actively accessing it. Or if that doesn't work, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even when it's outside of our range. We haven't tested any of these things yet.

Sure, we could test Mami's hypothesis. It would be easy. But we'd have to make a Barrier in order to do so. Personally, I'm in favor of modifying our promise to be "no experimentation without supervision" instead of "no experimentation at all".

It's theoretically possible that the two are not related, but what are the odds that a Feather appearing in the Industrial District has nothing to do with a Feathers blocked vision about Sayaka being enticed to a Witch in the Industrial District? The odds of them being unconnected are too remote to bring this up as a possibility.

This is theoretically possible. But it would require a third actor who was responsible for changing the timelines and who caused Elsa Maria to come to town early and Kiss Sayaka. The obvious suspect would be Kyuubey, but (as far as I know) he can't beat Oriko's visions. The simplest explanation is that both the Feather and the Kiss were caused by "Feathers". Note that "Feathers" still might not be hostile: the thing with Sayaka being Kissed could have been an accident or it could have known that we would save Sayaka.

The idea that "Feathers" is messing with us is another possibility that contradicts the ones mentioned previously.

Agreed, we need somebody to watch over us and help control our experiment, if things begin going severely wrong. +1 to you.

boonerunner · Jun 28, 2015

[x] It's possible, I suppose. What do you think, Homura?
[x] I could test that theory by creating another Barrier near a Witch's Barrier and seeing if there are any strange interactions between the two. What do you think, if the two of you were there to check for anything odd, would the possibility of finding out more about "Feathers" be worth the risk?

Let's involve Homura and Mami and try to make this into a discussion.

Lordsservent · Jun 28, 2015

boonerunner said:
[x] It's possible, I suppose. What do you think, Homura?
[x] I could test that theory by creating another Barrier near a Witch's Barrier and seeing if there are any strange interactions between the two. What do you think, if the two of you were there to check for anything odd, would the possibility of finding out more about "Feathers" be worth the risk?

Let's involve Homura and Mami and try to make this into a discussion.

That could definitely be a possibility, but we need to see what else we can do for our social first.

'Lement · Jun 28, 2015

@Onmur: Nowhere near fast enough. At dozen meguca a week, it'll take us 112 IC years to save everyone with the 70k model, using the blatantly false idea of "if we save them once they're immortal".

We need to save more like 1000 to 10000 meguca a week.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2015

boonerunner said:
We've done that before, and the witchy marble felt extremely witchy: just as much if not more than the entrance to a Barrier. Though in either case it might be possible to put the marble/entrance 100 m? in the air and out of the sensing range of most magical girls. Also, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even if we close the entrance and that it wouldn't feel witchy unless we were actively accessing it. Or if that doesn't work, it's possible that our Barrier stays up even when it's outside of our range. We haven't tested any of these things yet.

The point was that we don't need the Barrier for grief storage; it's the same as simply willing the grief to be small.

boonerunner said:
Let's involve Homura and Mami and try to make this into a discussion.

I think we need the opposite of a discussion. We're being cast in doubt, so we need to be firm in our position.

'Lement said:
@Onmur: Nowhere near fast enough. At dozen meguca a week, it'll take us 112 IC years to save everyone with the 70k model, using the blatantly false idea of "if we save them once they're immortal".

We need to save more like 1000 to 10000 meguca a week.

This is a start. Things should go smoother and faster once we manage to network our way into having useful powersets at our disposal.

Skelm · Jun 28, 2015

[x] It's possible, I suppose. What do you think, Homura?
[x] I could test that theory by creating another Barrier near a Witch's Barrier and seeing if there are any strange interactions between the two. What do you think, if the two of you were there to check for anything odd, would the possibility of finding out more about "Feathers" be worth the risk?

boonerunner · Jun 28, 2015

Onmur said:
I think we need the opposite of a discussion. We're being cast in doubt, so we need to be firm in our position.

The previous update ended with Mami mentioning her hypothesis that our Barriers might act as a kind of lightning rod for witches. Then she asked Sabrina and Homura to comment on that hypothesis. The proper response to that prompt is to have a discussion.

In particular, Mami asked Homura for her opinion, so we should definitely want to hear that.

Lordsservent · Jun 28, 2015

[x]Muramasa
Edit:Changed vote until further notice

Muramasa · Jun 28, 2015

The idea that "Feathers" is messing with us is another possibility that contradicts the ones mentioned previously.

Feather's isn't mentioned as the threat that's messing with us. And that's not the point of the line. Also Sabrina doesn't have to be correct here. The problem here is Mami and Homura's thought process right now is extremely unproductive so we need to steer the conversation away from this line of thinking.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2015

boonerunner said:
The previous update ended with Mami mentioning her hypothesis that our Barriers might act as a kind of lightning rod for witches. Then she asked Sabrina and Homura to comment on that hypothesis. The proper response to that prompt is to have a discussion.

In particular, Mami asked Homura for her opinion, so we should definitely want to hear that.

Do you see how Homura's acting?

Firnagzen said:
And yes, Oriko gave us good information, but it's also clear that she has no real idea what caused the attack."

With your attention mostly fixed on Homura, you see the flash of irritation wash across her face before she wipes it back to a disapproving mask, her weight settling on her back foot.

---

"I..." you sigh again, reaching up to tuck a stray lock of hair behind your ear. "Homura, Mami, the three of us, this team, need to figure this out. It seems to me that Sayaka was specifically targeted by the Witch, and... even ignoring Oriko, something unknown to us might have directed this attack."

Homura twitches, her hands clenching into white-knuckled fists. "Kyuubey," she hisses.

---

"I don't know," you say. "I honestly have no idea. The only things I have to go on are that the timing matches, and that, well. Um. Oriko mentioned feathers blocking her visions before."

"Do your powers have anything to do with this?" Homura asks, voice quiet. Her weight shifts again, balanced, hands hanging loosely at her side. She's not exactly tense, but... something about the set of her shoulders suggests worry.

---

You choke back your instinctive apology, swallowing hard.

"It can't be," Mami blurts out. "It isn't. Right, Sabrina?" She turns a pleading look on you.

Homura's gaze remains fixed on you, amethyst eyes fixed steadily on you. Her breaths come slow and measured, and her stance is carefully neutral.

---

"It... seems normal to me." She holds the feather out to Homura with a small, hopeful smile.

The time traveller's eyes flick down to the feather for a moment, before returning to regarding you in stony silence. She shakes her head, and Mami's smile fades, the hand holding the feather dropping back to her side.

You force yourself to straighten and meet Homura's eyes, clear blue against faded, tired lilac.

---

She takes a deep breath, looking up at you. "Maybe it's something like a lightning rod? When y-you make a Barrier, some... Witch powers are, are, drawn in, s-somehow? L-like calls to like?"

Homura's attention shifts to Mami. Neutral, silent, barely moving. Almost a statue, for all the emotion she's displaying, and nearly as still as everything in the frozen world of the timestop.

Mami notices, frowning at Homura. "I... don't you think so, Homura? S-Sabrina?"

Irritated, angry, worried, troubled and doing her best to not show what she feels. She's closing herself off to us.

She need reassurance.

Can't have a proper discussion with somebody that's bottling up her thoughts like this, anyways.

Ugolino · Jun 28, 2015

The Lement vote is clearly suicidal given Homura and Mami's suspicions.

[x]Muramasa

for lack of time/it being the better option.

boonerunner · Jun 28, 2015

Onmur said:
Do you see how Homura's acting?

Irritated, angry, worried, troubled and doing her best to not show what she feels. She's closing herself off to us.

She need reassurance.

Can't have a proper discussion with somebody that's bottling up her thoughts like this, anyways.

Homura is bottling up her thoughts, yes. Asking her to say what she's thinking is at least worth a shot rather than trying to lecture at her. Historically, our lectures haven't been all that reassuring. But when we have directly asked Homura what she thinks, she has at least told us something.

Mami thinks that asking Homura for her opinion is a good idea.

Lordsservent · Jun 28, 2015

Yes,Hormura really isn't in the mood for conversation right now.

landcollector · Jun 28, 2015

Lordsservent said:
Hormura

It's Homura.

Ugolino · Jun 28, 2015

boonerunner said:
Homura is bottling up her thoughts, yes. Asking her to say what she's thinking is at least worth a shot rather than trying to lecture at her. Historically, our lectures haven't been all that reassuring. But when we have directly asked Homura what she thinks, she has at least told us something.

Mami thinks that asking Homura for her opinion is a good idea.

What part of 'go back on our promise and conduct pointless, suicidal grief science right after we promised to stop acting like a reckless lunatic until we know its safer' is at all connected to 'ask Homura for her opinion'?

Besides her opinion of the situation is crystal-clear, and it isn't good.

I don't see any part of your vote as helping with the problem of Homura's trust...and feel you've completely misread the post and characters again.

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Servant of the one true God and SV

The Sorcerer of Smiles

Archangel of Nutella.

Best Girl

Archangel of Nutella.

Archangel of Nutella.

Servant of the one true God and SV

Servant of the one true God and SV

Archangel of Nutella.

Servant of the one true God and SV

Best Girl

Archangel of Nutella.

Servant of the one true God and SV