Yeah, it's still coming over as Sabrina the amazing human robot.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Gadjo
Doka
Er
A: what Aura said: a witch doesn't have to be more powerful, and they use a lot of their power up just making a barrier and such. The aren't focused.
B: Control? You do remember what happened last time we tried to control witch grief that wasn't ours?
Gadjo
Doka
-[] I mean, there's a difference between thinking, and trusting, that she won't do anything dangerous again. It's going to take a lot of solid proof to make up that difference. I hope we get that, but I understand your skepticism.
A dangerous thing to say. No amount of evidence will make her think Oriko is trustworthy. It isn't skepticism. Homura is absolutely certain that Oriko is not to be trusted. Ever. Defend her as a resource, and point out that you want to reform her if you can, but don't pretend Homura will ever more than tolerate her.
A dangerous thing to say. No amount of evidence will make her think Oriko is trustworthy. It isn't skepticism. Homura is absolutely certain that Oriko is not to be trusted. Ever. Defend her as a resource, and point out that you want to reform her if you can, but don't pretend Homura will ever more than tolerate her.
Eh. That line works perfectly well in that sense in that it's talking about Sabrina's POV...and never say never.
Gadjo
Doka
I suppose? Point is we don't want to make the same mistake we made last time.
On top of that, Homura saw Oriko kill Madoka. She failed against her in an open fight.
The hatred for Oriko likely runs very deep. We are not going to convince her of Oriko's trustworthiness for a long, long time.
And again I really, really don't see that as a reason not to get started now- more the opposite.
Gadjo
Doka
Because it won't make Homura trust her? It'll make her distrust us.
I disagree, within limits, as long as we don't screw things up in other ways...but if we don't nudge things to get better between Homura and Oriko? They never will.
Gadjo
Doka
I'm saying that it's too soon. She'll just think "Dammit, Sabrina's totally fooled. Oriko has her totally wrapped around her finger."
Which, if it's the case, is always going to be the case if we advocate for Oriko- and we should in spite of that- and which is why every vote has Sabrina going out of her way to comment that she knows she can't trust Oriko.
Seriously, I don't think kneejerk panic and backpedalling to avoid Homufrowns is the answer to the Oriko problem. Being honest and working to improve things is.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
Time and place, Ugo. Sorry dude, but huh... Is hard to make her change her mind in the... 5 or 6 days we've meet her against the indeterminated number of times Homura has looped.
We can start now, but you may want to take it slow.
Gadjo
Doka
I just don't see what we have besides what seems to be a perfectly mundane feather for evidence to make this any different from what happened last time.
I'm afraid of losing Homu's trust here.
A 'mundane' feather that appeared out of nowhere in a barrier right around the time stuff happened that set off Homu's ANOMALY alert and rattled her...and that Oriko physically couldn't have been to blame for.
Yeah, there's a small element of risk, but I think we're making the wrong call for all the wrong reasons by turtling this conversation.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
Actually... Homura was there when Oriko mentioned the feathers? This is the first time, so Homura would shrug at this. Next time she wouldn't.
By the way, how much irrational Homura can get when she plays the "I know better" card? Just curiosity.
By the way, how much irrational Homura can get when she plays the "I know better" card? Just curiosity.
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Gadjo
Doka
Small? She's going to blame those things on Oriko, quite easily. She's a precog. Shit happens.
And turtling a little is a good idea sometimes. For example, when your conversation partner has an extremely closely held belief that you've chosen to challenge mostly with intuition and other things she feels could easily have been falsified by the party in question.
It's pretty much completely impossible for Oriko to have done this for various reasons, that we can point out-not least of which is if she could remotely affect the contents of our barrier then we have much bigger problems- and eh. I personally feel like if we're deciding to turtle, we haven't looked hard enough for an actual vote.
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Hypothetically, if Sabrina had forewarning of Ultimate Gretchen showing up, she could stop it happening. That's the point of having grief powers.
- Location
- South Africa
The show itself says yes. Gretchen's Grief Seed was the size of a comet. Homura was dwarfed by it while it was clearly in the far distance.
One version of Gretchen would take 10 days to destroy the world. Kyuubey sad that Ultimate Gretchen would destroy the Universe. Gretchen herself has a mouth bigger than the planet, so she can chomp once and it's over for Earth.
Witches don't have to be weaker. If witches are stronger, all that means is that most of Kyuubey's contracts are too weak to kill even a single witch before witching out. Something I see as entirely possible.
Magical Girls explicitly get stronger with experience and explicitly always become a stronger witch than the strongest witch they've ever defeated. That's how Madoka became so powerful. Her wish forced her to defeat her own witch, thereby becoming stronger than her future self, which would then become a stronger witch, which would then be defeated, making her even more powerful still, an infinite number of times, thereby gaining infinite strength.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Maybe a bit of candidness is warranted?
[] I mean, I don't think she's gonna try another of her stupid, dangerous plans again, but that doesn't mean I can trust that. There's a difference, and it'll take a lot of very solid proof before I can consider changing my mind on that.
?
Well, yes. Hipothetically.
Point was that Oriko wouldn't we worried about Gretchen, since Sabrina seems like she can take on any Witch, Dedolere aside.
She was there.
...
I think it was brought up not that long ago, but this conversation brings this exchange to mind:
Oriko wants us to work together with Homura. I know there's other factors such as Oriko's fatalism, 'Hard Woman Making Hard Desicions', but Oriko was fine making enemies with us and Homura to make sure we'd work together with Homura. And it was because she believe we can 'change destiny', so little chance of Oriko coming out alive of that one.
I can sort of imagine it, if Homura's first impression of us was 'that brand new stranger that's already inserting herself in your group of precious friends? Your lesser archnemesis wants you to work with her', I don't think we'd have lasted long.
We've earned points with Homura, but Oriko's got a hell of a lot more negative points than that.
Kirika's advice about Mami could be applied to Homura, too. Patience.
- Location
- Croatia
That's wrong. Experience only makes them more capable in battle, and the strength of a witch is dependent on their inherent potential. For example, Charlotte was a very strong witch, but I don't think Nagisa had a lot of experience or defeated very strong witches.
Our Benefactor pt. 33
You glance from Homura, to Mami, and then back again. Thoughts cascade through your mind, and you're fairly sure that Mami, at least, picks it up from the way she cuddles into your side. You press your lips together, flip-flopping for a moment, trying to decide how much, and how to tell Homura...
You blow out a hard sigh. "Mami, Homura, could we speak more privately?" You hold Homura's eyes for a moment, and then deliberately let your eyes drift down to the shield on her arm.
The time traveller nods imperceptibly, glancing at Mami, who in turn glances at you. You nod too, and Mami holds one hand out, golden ribbon spooling out from her palm to curl around Homura. You keep your arm around Mami in that half hug, giving her a quick, grateful smile.
Homura waits for the ribbon to secure itself before cranking her shield sharply with a whir of clockwork.
The smartly modern buildings of the apartment blocks around you shade to ashen monotone. Sullen hues of grey wash across the world, sound and colour leached away by Homuras power. Your breaths are suddenly terribly loud in your ears, and you can hear every rustle of cloth that accompanies your motions.
It's nothing novel to you, not now, but it's still... off-putting. A little unsettling.
You close your eyes, and exhale slowly again. "OK. Yes," you say, nodding slowly. You fumble for the right words, the right thing to say to placate Homura and Mami. "Things are... definitely not right. I agree, it shouldn't have happened - but at least Sayaka's OK."
Homura's face twists into what would be a scowl on a lesser person. "This entire situation can't have happened."
With your eyes fixed on Homura, you feel, more than you see, Mami nod, her hair brushing against your shoulder. "I... agree," she says. "This is very unusual."
You wave your free hand in irritation. "I know, I know - the Witch shouldn't have just targeted Sayaka like that. And yes, Oriko gave us good information, but it's also clear that she has no real idea what caused the attack."
With your attention mostly fixed on Homura, you see the flash of irritation wash across her face before she wipes it back to a disapproving mask, her weight settling on her back foot.
"I..." you sigh again, reaching up to tuck a stray lock of hair behind your ear. "Homura, Mami, the three of us, this team, need to figure this out. It seems to me that Sayaka was specifically targeted by the Witch, and... even ignoring Oriko, something unknown to us might have directed this attack."
Homura twitches, her hands clenching into white-knuckled fists. "Kyuubey," she hisses.
Mami flinches. You hug her, giving her an encouraging smile. She returns a wan, trembling smile.
"He... it could have done it," you allow. "But there's something else."
You know which sphere of Grief the feather's in, and you summon it over with a moment's attention, catching it in your free hand. You bring it smoothly froward, presenting it to Homura and Mami. A line splits the featureless, midnight purple surface, and it parts to reveal the Feather, long pinioned and matte black.
Both Mami and Homura look at the Feather uncomprehendingly. A frown etches itself onto Homura's face.
"I made a Barrier, maybe an hour or so ago," you say, hugging Mami in silent apology. "When I dissolved it... this appeared. And maybe half an hour later, Oriko called me about the Witch. The timing matches up."
Mami frowns. "You think that this... had s-something to do with the Witch?"
"I don't know," you say. "I honestly have no idea. The only things I have to go on are that the timing matches, and that, well. Um. Oriko mentioned feathers blocking her visions before."
"Do your powers have anything to do with this?" Homura asks, voice quiet. Her weight shifts again, balanced, hands hanging loosely at her side. She's not exactly tense, but... something about the set of her shoulders suggests worry.
[] Write-in
You blow out a hard sigh. "Mami, Homura, could we speak more privately?" You hold Homura's eyes for a moment, and then deliberately let your eyes drift down to the shield on her arm.
The time traveller nods imperceptibly, glancing at Mami, who in turn glances at you. You nod too, and Mami holds one hand out, golden ribbon spooling out from her palm to curl around Homura. You keep your arm around Mami in that half hug, giving her a quick, grateful smile.
Homura waits for the ribbon to secure itself before cranking her shield sharply with a whir of clockwork.
The smartly modern buildings of the apartment blocks around you shade to ashen monotone. Sullen hues of grey wash across the world, sound and colour leached away by Homuras power. Your breaths are suddenly terribly loud in your ears, and you can hear every rustle of cloth that accompanies your motions.
It's nothing novel to you, not now, but it's still... off-putting. A little unsettling.
You close your eyes, and exhale slowly again. "OK. Yes," you say, nodding slowly. You fumble for the right words, the right thing to say to placate Homura and Mami. "Things are... definitely not right. I agree, it shouldn't have happened - but at least Sayaka's OK."
Homura's face twists into what would be a scowl on a lesser person. "This entire situation can't have happened."
With your eyes fixed on Homura, you feel, more than you see, Mami nod, her hair brushing against your shoulder. "I... agree," she says. "This is very unusual."
You wave your free hand in irritation. "I know, I know - the Witch shouldn't have just targeted Sayaka like that. And yes, Oriko gave us good information, but it's also clear that she has no real idea what caused the attack."
With your attention mostly fixed on Homura, you see the flash of irritation wash across her face before she wipes it back to a disapproving mask, her weight settling on her back foot.
"I..." you sigh again, reaching up to tuck a stray lock of hair behind your ear. "Homura, Mami, the three of us, this team, need to figure this out. It seems to me that Sayaka was specifically targeted by the Witch, and... even ignoring Oriko, something unknown to us might have directed this attack."
Homura twitches, her hands clenching into white-knuckled fists. "Kyuubey," she hisses.
Mami flinches. You hug her, giving her an encouraging smile. She returns a wan, trembling smile.
"He... it could have done it," you allow. "But there's something else."
You know which sphere of Grief the feather's in, and you summon it over with a moment's attention, catching it in your free hand. You bring it smoothly froward, presenting it to Homura and Mami. A line splits the featureless, midnight purple surface, and it parts to reveal the Feather, long pinioned and matte black.
Both Mami and Homura look at the Feather uncomprehendingly. A frown etches itself onto Homura's face.
"I made a Barrier, maybe an hour or so ago," you say, hugging Mami in silent apology. "When I dissolved it... this appeared. And maybe half an hour later, Oriko called me about the Witch. The timing matches up."
Mami frowns. "You think that this... had s-something to do with the Witch?"
"I don't know," you say. "I honestly have no idea. The only things I have to go on are that the timing matches, and that, well. Um. Oriko mentioned feathers blocking her visions before."
"Do your powers have anything to do with this?" Homura asks, voice quiet. Her weight shifts again, balanced, hands hanging loosely at her side. She's not exactly tense, but... something about the set of her shoulders suggests worry.
[] Write-in
=====
[X] Homura... I've given some thought to what we talked about yesterday.
-[X] I know I'm not the most sensible person when it comes to being trusting. So I'm relying on you - both of you - to watch out for me or reign me in. Like you tried to do yesterday. So, thank you for that, and I'm sorry I made you worry.
-[X] Oriko gave us useful information today, but you're right that I shouldn't rely on her information to always be good. I know I like to think the best of everyone, but Oriko has been mistaken, can withhold information, or influence me towards plans she doesn't disclose.
-[X] I mean, there's a difference between thinking, and trusting, that she won't do anything dangerous again. It's going to take a lot of solid proof to make up that difference. I hope we get that, but I understand your skepticism.
-[X] I guess what I'm saying is, treat her as only one potential source. Doublecheck any information she gives us, while staying alert for omissions or hidden agendas.
[X] If what we said seems ok, then:
-[X] Apologize for not having the sense to just say that yesterday. Reiterate that despite all the things we take on, we'll always be her friend and ally first. Hug Mami closer so she understands she's included in that statement.
-[X] I know I'm not the most sensible person when it comes to being trusting. So I'm relying on you - both of you - to watch out for me or reign me in. Like you tried to do yesterday. So, thank you for that, and I'm sorry I made you worry.
-[X] Oriko gave us useful information today, but you're right that I shouldn't rely on her information to always be good. I know I like to think the best of everyone, but Oriko has been mistaken, can withhold information, or influence me towards plans she doesn't disclose.
-[X] I mean, there's a difference between thinking, and trusting, that she won't do anything dangerous again. It's going to take a lot of solid proof to make up that difference. I hope we get that, but I understand your skepticism.
-[X] I guess what I'm saying is, treat her as only one potential source. Doublecheck any information she gives us, while staying alert for omissions or hidden agendas.
[X] If what we said seems ok, then:
-[X] Apologize for not having the sense to just say that yesterday. Reiterate that despite all the things we take on, we'll always be her friend and ally first. Hug Mami closer so she understands she's included in that statement.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
"Honey, it's more likely to be your powers." Is something that we should under no circumstances say.
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