Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[x] Agent Whiskers
No. of votes: 2
MrLZRS, AnonymousRabbit

[X] Things are definitely strange here. Sayaka was the only one Kissed, and her parents probably should have gotten hit with one as well. There was also the matter of her appearing all the way away from her home. It could be that Sayaka was specifically targeted here. It's best to be careful and keep a closer eye on your non-magical girl friends.
[X] Although you can't be completely certain, you do believe that she was being sincere and that she was telling truth about what she saw.
-[X] That doesn't make her completely trustworthy or any less dangerous. She isn't above lies, manipulations... or worse, if she believes it's necessary.
-[X] You'd like to give her a second chance and We... quite thoroughly broke any notions she could fix things with her crazy plans. So we trust her that much at least.
-[X] There is a slight risk, but she and her visions are too valuable. There would probably be a lot of people dead right now if not for her visions. And you aren't willing to take the chance that she's lying after after some of the thing she's told you about this. Either way, it'd be best to continue being careful with her. Especially after what happened today.
[X] ask homura to timestop and discuss the feather with mami and her.
No. of votes: 1
noahgab1133

[X] Ask to have this conversation more privately (timestop).
-[x] I agree that it shouldn't have happened. At least Sayaka's okay.
--[x] Oriko gave us good information, Mami, but it's also clear she has no real idea what caused today's attack.
---[x] It's up to the three of us - this team - to figure that out. It looks to me like Sayaka was specifically targeted. Even ignoring Oriko, something unknown to us might have directed this attack.
---[x] Show them the feather and explain the circumstances that it appeared. Ask what they think of those events.
-[X] Listen to what the others say in response. If the subject wavers from Oriko, cut the vote here. If it doesn't, or if they don't say much, continue.
[X] Homura... I've given some thought to what we talked about yesterday.
-[X] I know I'm not the most sensible person when it comes to being trusting. So I'm relying on you - both of you - to watch out for me or reign me in. Like you tried to do yesterday. So, thank you for that, and I'm sorry I made you worry.
-[X] Oriko gave us useful information today, but you're right that I shouldn't rely on her information to always be good. I know I like to think the best of everyone, but Oriko has been mistaken, can withhold information, or influence me towards plans she doesn't disclose.
-[X] I mean, we restrict her now because when she is free to act she takes extreme and dangerous measures. (Make eye contact with Homura so she understands we're also accounting for the other timeline.) And what she tried with Sayaka didn't even work.
-[X] I guess what I'm saying is, treat her as only one potential source. Doublecheck any information she gives us, while staying alert for omissions or hidden agendas.
[X] If what we said seems ok, then:
-[X] Apologize for not having the sense to just say that yesterday. Reiterate that despite all the things we take on, we'll always be her friend and ally first. Hug Mami closer so she understands she's included in that statement.
No. of votes: 7
SynchronizedWritersBlock, Onmur, Diomedon, Muramasa, Redshirt Army, TJSomething, moonstne

[x]SWB
No. of votes: 7
o3o, aeqnai, Guilop, EtchedSteel, Aranfan, chocolote12, AuraTwilight

[x] Ask to have this conversation more privately (timestop).
-[x]I agree that it shouldn't have happened. At least Sayaka's okay.
--[x] Oriko gave us good information, Mami, but it's also clear she has no real idea what caused today's attack.
---[x] It's up to the three of us - this team- to figure that out. It looks to me like Sayaka was specifically targeted.
----[x]Show them the feather and say that you think it's related to the threat Oriko predicted. It does seem to be evidence that she's not just making things up.
-----[x] Listen to what the others say in response. If the subject wavers from Oriko, cut the vote here. If it doesn't, or if they don't say much, continue.
[x] Homura... I've given some thought to what we talked about yesterday.
-[x] Oriko gave us useful information today, but you're right that I shouldn't rely on her information to always be good. I would like to trust her, but...I know we can't. Not completely.
--[x]Her predictions aren't always right, and she might not tell us everything, or be planning something.
--[x]But she has been helping, and her warnings have been useful so far. And we might need her help.
---[x]I do think she's on our side though, at least when it comes to stopping Walpurgisnacht and whatever else is coming...and that she realizes her original approach didn't work.
---[x]I'll keep being careful when it comes to checking her information, and treat her as one source, rather than just relying on her.
---[x] But as I said, I'm not exactly the most sensible person when it comes to being trusting, so I'm relying on you - both of you -to watch out for me or reign me in. Like you tried to do yesterday. So, thank you for that, and I'm sorry I made you worry.
No. of votes: 11
defenestrator, Ugolino, boonerunner, VilimL, Kai Merah, Sereg, DracoDracul, Gadjo, Skelm, FlatlineAskari, MissingJimbo

[X] Ask to have this conversation more privately (timestop)
-[X] Things are definitely strange here. Sayaka was the only one Kissed, and her parents probably should have gotten hit with one as well. There was also the matter of her appearing all the way away from her home. It could be that Sayaka was specifically targeted here. It's best to be careful and keep a closer eye on your non-magical girl friends.
--[X] Take out the feather and say that you think it might be related to the threat Oriko predicted. It did show up around the time Sayaka got Kissed.
[X] As for Oriko...
-[X] Although you can't be completely certain, you do believe that she is being sincere about helping you and that she was telling truth about what she saw.
--[X] That doesn't make her completely trustworthy or any less dangerous, however. She is capable lies, manipulations... or worse, if she believes it's absolutely necessary. You'll try and be careful around her and the information she gives you. As much as she's helped already, it wouldn't be smart to completely rely on her, especially now that her visions are changing.
[X] Concede that you haven't always displayed the best judgment, and you all are suppose to be a team. Ask them what they think about all this.
No. of votes: 1
Agent Whiskers
 
Stalling isn't just a non-vote. It's worse. Because it indicates a lack of trust. It's not going to stop us moving forward. It's going to send us backwards. Stalling will not keep Homura happy with us. it will make her even more irritated and convinced that Oriko is compromising us.

SWB's changes are a huge improvement, but I hate this line:

-[] I mean, we restrict her now because when she is free to act she takes extreme and dangerous measures. (Make eye contact with Homura so she understands we're also accounting for the other timeline.) And what she tried with Sayaka didn't even work.

Because it's not agreeing that Homura has a point. It's saying that she's completely correct to assume that Oriko is a liability and we'd be better off without her. We cannot support that view.
 
I made an edit to past tense to make the point more clear. However,

Because it's not agreeing that Homura has a point. It's saying that she's completely correct to assume that Oriko is a liability and we'd be better off without her. We cannot support that view.

If Oriko was still going around burning down houses and pushing our friends down stairs, we'd be opposed to her despite her intent. Her actions need to be checked regardless of her intentions. That check could take the form of restriction or a second opinion or cooperation, but regardless, just because she means well doesn't invalidate the idea that caution is necessary.

We do have to acknowledge Homura's fears. They aren't going to go away on our say so. We don't have to take a rigid position. It's not a matter of conceding ground or validating certain points of view. It's a matter of finding ways her concerns, our goals, and the present situation overlap or can be made to overlap.
 
Yeah, no, Sereg's right. Other than that the changes are an improvement- if still completely the wrong approach to take- but I'm not voting for that line and think it's sabotaging the rest of the vote.

Seriously, that line is downright toxic in terms of getting Homura to trust Oriko. This isn't acknowledging Homura's fears, it's encouraging and validating them. We don't think Oriko will go crazy the moment we let her go free, and should definitely not say so. WTF are we encouraging Homura shadowruns for?

Also, this line is fairly important in terms of getting across that we know we can't trust her and I really don't get why it's phrased as

I know I like to think the best of everyone, but Oriko has been mistaken, can withhold information, or influence me towards plans she doesn't disclose.

rather than

I would like to trust her, but...I know we can't. Not completely.

since honestly...the former just seems clinical. Dead. No personality at all, and not in a helpful way.
 
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Switching vote.

[x] SWB

I don't think we can persuade Homura to trust Oriko beyond what Oriko is already doing herself. So, put our efforts into improving our relationship with Homura.
 
Seriously, that line is downright toxic in terms of getting Homura to trust Oriko. This isn't acknowledging Homura's fears, it's encouraging and validating them. We don't think Oriko will go crazy the moment we let her go free, and should definitely not say so. WTF are we encouraging Homura shadowruns for?

Maybe throw in a bit about rehabilitation or reform? I sure as hell don't want to keep Oriko imprisoned indefinitely. Or even for much longer than another week.
 
Maybe throw in a bit about rehabilitation or reform? I sure as hell don't want to keep Oriko imprisoned indefinitely. Or even for much longer than another week.
Anything works better than the current version of that line. Rehabilitation and reform might be a bit too far but we don't need to actively try and make Homura's opinion worse.

Bleh, probably be back in two weeks if I don't have net access. Good luck with social.
 
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I'm following this enormous quest for a while now and, though I have been intimidated at first, I'm ready to join the Hivemind! :V

I think I will abstain from voting this time around because the situation seems rather fragile. Still, are we really sure Homura isn't right?

Oriko is surely an useful asset right now, we might even consider her friend, but If she catches a glimpses of a world ending situation which we are responsible in some way will she hesitate to kill us first and give warnings later? We are aiming to change a millenial old system in the future and the higher the stakes the more catastrophic a Bad End could become. This will become more food for Oriko's visions for sure.

Are we really hoping that this greater danger, the Feathers which we may also be responsible of, will distract Oriko enough that she will never decide to kill Madoka or us, the inconvenient variable? How long till she notices the Gretchen and Dedolere living in her city? I don't doubt that Kirika will pout a little at the idea, but she would neverthless murder us If Oriko asked her to.

I'm probably painting Oriko as a much worse person than she really is and we should never voice such ideas aloud more than half a kilometer from Homura but I stll believe that these are real concerns that we should consider.
 
Not related to the question at hand, but does it seem like Kuybey hasn't really tried to contract with Madoka? I know that might just be from the fact that we aren't seeing it from her prospective, but it kind of sticks out to me.
 
Oriko is a person who in a hopeless situation is capable of ugly, ruthless things...but honestly, that pretty much goes for all meguca. Including Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka...and everyone but Madoka, essentially. So yeah, we're looking at her and everyone else as flawed but fundamentally good people who can be better than that rather than them at their ugliest. The thing about PMMM is that very few people are unambiguously evil or beyond redemption, and Sabrina believes that too.

Try and make it so that Oriko never considers that kind of extremism necessary, befriend her, and try and get her to take healthier, less extreme approaches. Remember that Oriko's freakout in her original series was when she was spiralling and basically having a prolonged version of Mami's breakdown because Kirika was going to witch, just told her about lobotomizing herself for her sake, and to top it all off with her plan in ruins, everyone was going to die because of Gretchen.

So she snapped, scrapped the plan with a relatively low body count, and let a witch loose on the school in a last-ditch attempt to salvage the plan.

That shouldn't happen here, and we've tried to persuade her that there's a better way to do things.

Not related to the question at hand, but does it seem like Kuybey hasn't really tried to contract with Madoka? I know that might just be from the fact that we aren't seeing it from her prospective, but it kind of sticks out to me.
The rat has been alarmingly quiet, yes.
 
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I can swap in a few different words and this would apply just as much to Homura.
More food for tought then, it still doesn't mean we should forget about Oriko.

I also think that Homura is much more manageable than the seer. She loses nothing in trusting us for one loop and she has actually opened with us in more than one occasion. Her recent behaviour is more social akwardness and instinctive responses than anything else (and the trauma, can't forget about the trauma). She is actually becoming more paranoid of the dangers in this loop specifically because we may be a single-event anomaly and her last glimmer of hope.
 
More food for tought then, it still doesn't mean we should forget about Oriko.

I also think that Homura is much more manageable than the seer. She loses nothing in trusting us for one loop and she has actually opened with us in more than one occasion. Her recent behaviour is more social akwardness and instinctive responses than anything else (and the trauma, can't forget about the trauma). She is actually becoming more paranoid of the dangers in this loop specifically because we may be a single-event anomaly and her last glimmer of hope.
The seer is a bag of issues with an unpleasant track record...but honestly, by lending an ear and being willing to cooperate, we should make it so that her worse loops never come to pass. Left to her own devices, she tried to fight Walpurgisnacht and saved Yuma in another loop where she saw it instead of Gretchen. I'm almost certain she's saveable.

The key to Oriko is to make it so that she never feels extreme measures are necessary, and that she doesn't need to plot on her own to Do What Needs to Be Done. Remember, she didn't think we'd listen to her at the start, causing her to set herself up as an antagonist before we stomped that plan. Befriending her and Kirika should also help there since she tends to feel isolated.
 
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