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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Muramasa said:
I like the edits though I think the added line is a bit unnecessary. Strays a bit too far from Mami's question.
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All right.

[x] I suppose it's possible. If you're right, that's ... more than a little concerning. And it will be difficult to prove it without making the barrier and risking whatever it was that happened all over again.
[x] If you're right, the best solution is to just not make any more barriers. No barrier. No lightning rod. No feathers. No witches where they shouldn't be.
[x] Until we know more, that's the best way to protect our friends. I'm not going to let something like this be my fault... I'm going to keep my friends safe no matter what.
[x] What do you think Homura?

boonerunner said:
In our experience, this is the closest that Mami has ever come has come to witching out. Plenty of other girls have witched out, of course, but I am operating under the assumption that "Feathers" is personally related to the main cast (probably Homucifer). If "Feathers" is Homucifer, then Mami's near witchout would be much more significant than anything we may have been doing with respect to Barriers.
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This is just as much an assumption as barriers having an effect.


You'll have to clarify. The only things that have shown any relation to "Feathers" in the past are Oriko's visions and (possibly) Sabrina's Barrier creation. What tests can we run that do not have anything to do with Barriers that are likely to give us information about "Feathers"?

There was one potential experiment that I wanted to try earlier by trying to ask Oriko to use precognition about our failure to create a Soul Gem Scanner, but that's the only thing I can remember offhand. And even if that test did show that "Feathers" was behind our Soul Gem Scanner failures, it wouldn't show anything one way or another to demonstrate the safety of the Barriers.

If you can come up with a series of tests that would prove that Barriers are safe (or unsafe) without actually creating a Barrier, then I would be happy. But I cannot think of any tests that would do this.
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I have some rough ideas. I'd need to spend more time polishing them and we have more urgent concerns right now, but firstly, we can try creating the book of unknown information. Check that it works and ask it.

Then there's creating a scanner that detects whether or not something originates from a barrier. Test if it works and then try it on the feather.

Then there's simply asking Oriko what would happen if we continually created and dismissed barriers non-stop until Walpurgisnacht.

Then there's an origin-tracker, which informs us of an object's history. Again, once we know it works, try it on the feather.

This is all before we learn more unexpected abilities of our powers or meet other meguca who may have other powers we could use for this purpose.

In any event, we have other priorities of greater or at least similar levels of urgency and importance.
 
boonerunner said:
My interpretation of the events matches line-for-line with the actual update. Anything beyond that is reading something into Homura's response. Which is explicitly a neutral response.
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I would like to point out that a neutral response would have been "Homura's attention shifts to Mami." But the additional lines emphasizing her stillness... "Neutral, silent, barely moving. Almost a statue... nearly as still as everything in the frozen world of the timestop".

We are her friends. We are in the safety of her timestop. She had no problem showing her discomfort in front of Oriko. We have been able to read Homura before, at least sometimes. And yet here and now, Homura is explicitly making sure she behaves in such a way that we can read nothing from her. In other words, she's beginning to think we may be an enemy. She's freezing, closing herself off from us. This is not a neutral response. That is a 'I don't like what I am hearing' response, which may range from her thinking us possibly an actual enemy, or her thinking us an unwitting enemy, an enemy's cat's paw which may no longer be fully trusted. Or, and this is the most optimistic reading, she suspects something that she believes will upset us, and is attempting to hide that knowledge.

But still. Homura withdrawing from us. Not good.

[x] Sereg
 
@Sereg @Muramasa

Gem cleansing? We definitely could use it.

cmwatford said:
Maybe we should be getting ready to rock Homura if things start to go south? Just a healthy dose of paranoia considering that she may well be reconsidering our threat level.
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Sorry to bring this up after it's been answered, but this is never a 'healthy' dose of paranoia.

Homura is our friend. She'd have to actually go and do something horribad before we can actually consider this... this.

SaltyWaffles said:
Just going to add in: Mami's theory actually has a surprising amount of merit. Not necessarily in the context that she was thinking of, true, but still. It could very well be that Sabrina's use of reality-warping/reality-bending powers either attracts/attracts the attention of/helps to facilitate influence/communication between this world and wherever Feathers is. Just because nothing happened the first time doesn't mean that this isn't the case, because if the 'lightning rod' effect was mild enough, Feathers might have only taken notice of it (or just considered it anything more than a random occurrence) when the same phenomenon happened twice in a row.
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Mami's grasping at straws but, well, yes, this has been brought up in the past, I agree it's a possibility.

... We're not sharing this, right? Unless we receive some sort of confirmation, it's just an idea and not worth worrying Mami and Homura over it?
 
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Ugh. Just thinking about future conversation, they could end up so... charged. We really need to figure out how to get this stuff out bit by bit, so we don't end up vomiting all of our hidden knowledge in five minutes.

- Mami's witching rod idea actually's got a lot of merit if you know what I do.
- It's just that when I woke up, I knew a lot of things, one of which was that my magical potential was immense. Don't know why, though; totally possible that somebody else's got influence over my magic.
- Yes, I knew my potential was really big, I just knew it. Actually, I wasn't being completely honest back then, scared as I was, I already knew about you all, somewhat.
- Really, this 'Feathers' threat, I'm as sure about it as I was sure about Oriko when I woke up. Oh, I didn't mention that; I already knew Oriko was gonna be our enemy from the start...

I know there's good reasons why we haven't said these things, but I can't help but to feel dishonest.
 
I'm going to be frank. I do not trust puella in general. If I had my way I'd rock every girl for miles who isn't mission critical and even then I'd be wary. I don't expect you all to be convinced I'm right just to understand where I'm coming from. These are children caught in a system designed to maximize their despair and plays on their tendency for irrational behavior. As much as we admire Homura for her bravery and heroic dedication to saving Madoka we have to keep in mind that behind the murderface she's still just a scared little girl who lacks the necessary life experience to understand just what she's doing wrong and how to fix it. While the other girls don't have it quite so bad I'm sure we can expect the same lack of problem solving skills that only experience can bring.

TLDR: Puella are children and can't really be trusted to act rationally and we should act in their best interest even if doing so goes against their wills.
Am I wrong in this line of thinking? Are my parental instincts skewing my perception here?
 
cmwatford said:
Puella are children and can't really be trusted to act rationally and we should act in their best interest even if doing so goes against their wills.
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Teenagers. They need to learn to make their own decisions.

Your 'solution' doesn't solve anything. It's pretty much killing all the megucas. What? Are you planning to un-rock them in the future? You've just made a hell of a lot of enemies.
 
Onmur said:
Teenagers. They need to learn to make their own decisions.

Your 'solution' doesn't solve anything. It's pretty much killing all the megucas. What? Are you planning to un-rock them in the future? You've just made a hell of a lot of enemies.
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The idea is to get them out of the way long enough to deal with the big issues, Walpurgis & Feathers. Preferably we'd have some idea weather or not dewitching is possible when we wake them up. I can live with them hating me as long as they don't end up suffering forever as an eldritch abomination. Yes I realize this could take a very long time.

Of course this does depend on Sabrina being hax enough that she can deal with Feathers with minimal support. Which if our speculation is correct is probably not the case.

I've already accepted that none of you think this is a good idea and I can see why I just wanted ya'll to know where I was coming from.
 
cmwatford said:
Of course this does depend on Sabrina being hax enough that she can deal with Feathers with minimal support. Which if our speculation is correct is probably not the case.
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Our objectives are bigger than that. We want to break the system, so you mean 'hax enough to solve the grief seed problem with minimal support' at minimum. I'm certain we can't do this without fostering a lot of goodwill and cooperation.

We need help from the same megucas we want to help. They won't help us if they're plotting to kill us instead. Because, you know, if somebody knocked me and my friends unconcious and kept us trapped at their mercy for who knows how long, I'd be pretty pissed off and scared. Not only that, but there's all these other groups that got wronged the same way? Can you say coalition? It'd be very easy for the most vocal and violence-minded megucas to rile up the rest and convince them they can't risk that shit happening ever again.

Once we're dead, we can't break the system anymore.
 
We really need to drop the subject of barriers and ask Oriko about the future of our feather and others like it.
Then we can train enchantment with Mami to learn space expansion so we don't ever *need* barriers. It will also reassure her that we are taking care of or safety and that her tutoring is useful.
Then we need to raid the Yakuza with Homura and try to talk to her to make her less murderface again.

Or course, an Oriko!interrupt could always mess up our plans again, but we can hope it will be fine until tomorrow.

Oh, right, somewhere along the way we need to ask Kyubey what his deal is with Madoka. He only lies by omission so we could hopefully get some information, or at least know whether to be on the lookout for him. Homura will kill him if he approaches Madoka but if he's scheming something else...
 
VilimL said:
We really need to drop the subject of barriers and ask Oriko about the future of our feather and others like it.
Then we can train enchantment with Mami to learn space expansion so we don't ever *need* barriers. It will also reassure her that we are taking care of or safety and that her tutoring is useful.
Then we need to raid the Yakuza with Homura and try to talk to her to make her less murderface again.
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I wonder if we can translate the 'My will be done' concept for Barrier creation into non-grief magic.
Oh, right, somewhere along the way we need to ask Kyubey what his deal is with Madoka. He only lies by omission so we could hopefully get some information, or at least know whether to be on the lookout for him. Homura will kill him if he approaches Madoka but if he's scheming something else...
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That's gonna be difficult seeing as our approach to Kyubey is to not talk with it if we can avoid it. Really would prefer not hinting we know Madoka's important if we can help it.
 
Onmur said:
@Sereg @Muramasa

Gem cleansing? We definitely could use it.


Sorry to bring this up after it's been answered, but this is never a 'healthy' dose of paranoia.

Homura is our friend. She'd have to actually go and do something horribad before we can actually consider this... this.


Mami's grasping at straws but, well, yes, this has been brought up in the past, I agree it's a possibility.

... We're not sharing this, right? Unless we receive some sort of confirmation, it's just an idea and not worth worrying Mami and Homura over it?
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Cleansing good point ... where would it be best though? We don't want to freak out Homura more, but we don't want her judgement impaired either. Something like this?

[x] Cleanse anyone who is looking worryingly dark
[x] I suppose it's possible. If you're right, that's ... more than a little concerning. And it will be difficult to prove it without making the barrier and risking whatever it was that happened all over again.
[x] In case you're right, the best solution is to just not make any more barriers. No barrier. No lightning rod. No feathers. No witches where they shouldn't be.
[x] Until we know more, that's the best way to protect our friends. I'm not going to let something like this be my fault... I'm going to keep my friends safe no matter what.
[x] And if it's something else, I'll find out and stop it.
[x] What do you think Homura?
[x] Cleanse self and offer cleansing to Homura and Mami
 
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Sereg said:
Cleansing good point ... where would it be best though? We don't want to freak out Homura more, but we don't want her judgement impaired either. Something like this?

[x] I suppose it's possible. If you're right, that's ... more than a little concerning. And it will be difficult to prove it without making the barrier and risking whatever it was that happened all over again.
[x] In case you're right, the best solution is to just not make any more barriers. No barrier. No lightning rod. No feathers. No witches where they shouldn't be.
[x] Until we know more, that's the best way to protect our friends. I'm not going to let something like this be my fault... I'm going to keep my friends safe no matter what.
[x] And if it's something else, I'll find out and stop it.
[x] Cleanse self and offer cleansing to Homura and Mami
[x] What do you think Homura?
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I think it'd go better here.

We're affected by grief, but Sabrina'll say what she needs to say without immediate cleansing. I want to try to alleviate Homura's fears before offering to take care of her Soul Gem corruption.
 
Kinematics said:
Make them understand that they need to define their wants in terms of the goal, not the means; that everyone needs to set out their desires, and what they're willing to give in exchange; etc.
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<Snnrrkk!!>

Sorry, it's just that that's one of the more popular methods of Poor Communication Kills in PMMM. Pretty much every meguca ever fails to express what they actually desire in their wish and instead wish for a means to fulfill that desire. Which then backfires horribly.

  • Kyouko - wishes for people to listen to her dad. Desires to have her family happy and prosperous (or at least not-starving.)
  • Sayaka - wishes to heal Kwyjibo's hand. Desires to make him happy (and hers).
  • Mami - wishes for survival. Desires to be together with her parents. (Though here the connection between the two is more tenuous because of the wish's circumstances.)
  • Homura - wishes to meet Madoka again, as her protector. Desires Madoka's renewed life and happiness.
  • Madoka - wishes to save a cat's life/to prevent all witches from ever coming to be. Desires to make the world a better place. (Her PMAS wish for a chance to fix everything is pretty much her actual desire. Good on you, Madoka!)
  • Nagisa - wishes for a cake to share with her mom. Desires to spend more time with her mom.
  • Sabrina - wishes to control grief. Desires to save all of the Incubators' victims. And also not immediately die of spontaneous existence failure.
1300 some pages to go.
 
Onmur said:
I think it'd go better here.

We're affected by grief, but Sabrina'll say what she needs to say without immediate cleansing. I want to try to alleviate Homura's fears before offering to take care of her Soul Gem corruption.
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copy pasta'd... well minus the color.

[] I suppose it's possible. If you're right, that's ... more than a little concerning. And it will be difficult to prove it without making the barrier and risking whatever it was that happened all over again.
[] In case you're right, the best solution is to just not make any more barriers. No barrier. No lightning rod. No feathers. No witches where they shouldn't be.
[] Until we know more, that's the best way to protect our friends. I'm not going to let something like this be my fault... I'm going to keep my friends safe no matter what.
[] And if it's something else, I'll find out and stop it.
[] Cleanse self and offer cleansing to Homura and Mami
[] What do you think Homura?
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Muramasa said:
How can you tell that? And how do I fix it to standard?
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Just highlight it and hit 'Remove Formatting' at the top left.

I can tell because using 'Flexile Dark', the vote's words looks slightly brighter than normal.

Boobah said:
<Snnrrkk!!>

Sorry, it's just that that's one of the more popular methods of Poor Communication Kills in PMMM. Pretty much every meguca ever fails to express what they actually desire in their wish and instead wish for a means to fulfill that desire. Which then backfires horribly.

  • Kyouko - wishes for people to listen to her dad. Desires to have her family happy and prosperous (or at least not-starving.)
  • Sayaka - wishes to heal Kwyjibo's hand. Desires to make him happy (and hers).
  • Mami - wishes for survival. Desires to be together with her parents. (Though here the connection between the two is more tenuous because of the wish's circumstances.)
  • Homura - wishes to meet Madoka again, as her protector. Desires Madoka's renewed life and happiness.
  • Madoka - wishes to save a cat's life/to prevent all witches from ever coming to be. Desires to make the world a better place. (Her PMAS wish for a chance to fix everything is pretty much her actual desire. Good on you, Madoka!)
  • Nagisa - wishes for a cake to share with her mom. Desires to spend more time with her mom.
  • Sabrina - wishes to control grief. Desires to save all of the Incubators' victims. And also not immediately die of spontaneous existence failure.
1300 some pages to go.
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Everybody should learn from Oriko and Kirika. Best well made wishes ever.
 
Just out of curiosity now.

STANDARD WORDS
WHITE WORDS
FLEXILE DARK STANDARD-LIKE COLOR

I've found standard flexile dark color to be around R:230 G:230 B:230.

Boobah said:
1300 some pages to go.
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Might I ask what lead you to read the whole thread instead of the Story Only thread? It's fun, but kind of a tiny little bit too long?
 
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