Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
I thought the original plan was Carthaginian? Well, the threads plan; I wanted to be Israel.
- Location
- Austria
Wasn't Carthage ex-colony of Phoenicians and thus it is..kinda the same?
Besides. I want to have metalworking, writing and +2 stability at all times, other things will follow, because lol LoO.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We got protowriting from expanding our farms, iirc.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Three turns is about the best you can ever hope for.
Not much extra for now, but better tools should help.
Not necessarily.
Mediocre is better than Poor.
- Location
- Austria
That's...incredibly tempting, but unlikely to work, so I'll pass.
*SCREAMS IN METALWORKING*
@Powerofmind
Motoko
Herald of Iron to The People
- Location
- Canada, ontario
This would be the ideal turn action for me next turn.
[] [Main] Trade Expedition - Highland Kingdom
[] [Secondary] New Trails
[] [Secondary] Survey Land
It uses our Diplo, it should raise our centralization with the turn over of the government. And it surveys the land again. We can raise stability and do trade with the Nomads the turn after.
[] [Main] Trade Expedition - Highland Kingdom
[] [Secondary] New Trails
[] [Secondary] Survey Land
It uses our Diplo, it should raise our centralization with the turn over of the government. And it surveys the land again. We can raise stability and do trade with the Nomads the turn after.
- Location
- Austria
On one hand, it plays nice with the strengths of the current character, and gives Trails, and gives Metalworking progress, hopefully.
On the other hand, we need that Restore Harmony/Festivals because the last update pretty blatantly hinted at refugees from the Lowlands wanting to go to us.
If the megaproject completion gives stability, I'm for this plan; otherwise, I'm for plan which has some form of Stability booster.
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm kinda scratching my head at all the potential plans that don't include Expand Warriors. Yes it'd be nice to have the other stuff, but that means nothing if we don't have the army to keep our enemies away. A lot of people are falling into the same trap I did when I started playing the higher levels of CIV. I was eager to get infrastructure and ignored my army because I could always build that up later if I needed to. As someone who has been crushed because I didn't have a large enough army several times, I can tell you just how bad this is.
Oda just marched into my heavily infrastructures territory with his legions of soldiers, taking each of my cities one by one while I scrambled to catch up. I managed to get a peace deal, but the damage was done. In another game my scouts saw the size of the fleet Suleman was building up, and I immediately moved to get ships, but I was too late and he brute forced his way into my capital, which was the most developed of my lands by far, and the other factions fell on me like wolves. But in my next game when I saw that I'd be rubbing borders with Sweden soon enough, I moved to get military units immediately. It payed off, because when Gustavus declared war on me, I was ready to beat him back.
So tl;dr we need to get troops before the enemy is at our doorstep, because by that point there's a good chance it will be too late.
Actually, just had a thought. @Academia Nut, if our martial score was high enough, would we need to reinforce Stonepen against the Nomad raids, or would the troops already there be able to rebuff them as a matter of course thanks to high martial + terrain bonuses?
Oda just marched into my heavily infrastructures territory with his legions of soldiers, taking each of my cities one by one while I scrambled to catch up. I managed to get a peace deal, but the damage was done. In another game my scouts saw the size of the fleet Suleman was building up, and I immediately moved to get ships, but I was too late and he brute forced his way into my capital, which was the most developed of my lands by far, and the other factions fell on me like wolves. But in my next game when I saw that I'd be rubbing borders with Sweden soon enough, I moved to get military units immediately. It payed off, because when Gustavus declared war on me, I was ready to beat him back.
So tl;dr we need to get troops before the enemy is at our doorstep, because by that point there's a good chance it will be too late.
Actually, just had a thought. @Academia Nut, if our martial score was high enough, would we need to reinforce Stonepen against the Nomad raids, or would the troops already there be able to rebuff them as a matter of course thanks to high martial + terrain bonuses?
The thing is, we chosen a diplomatic hero, and we need to take full advantage before he die, otherwise it's a waste of opportunity.
- Location
- Austria
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but our Economy needs LoO, which needs stability; getting more metal tools will help with getting better army among other things; and, after societal upheaval of changing the government type we'll probably need to boost Stability and/or Centralization.
That said, I am not sure whether Highlands Kingdoms is the best target for Trade Mission; maybe Metal Miners or Nomads (to secure the flank, in a way) would be better.
Motoko
Herald of Iron to The People
- Location
- Canada, ontario
No point in going gung-ho on warriors if we shatter from econ or stability loss. That's my position.
Give the [] and i'll fix it, it was the most recent one and I was only using it as a demonstration lol.
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I don't consider the nomads worth it. We'll only get three turn of peace at best.
It's better to go south and encounter the proto-Egyptians or visit the Metal Worker.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
We can do more than just diplomacy focused actions with him in charge. Even a secondary improve Martial is something we can do.
Stability and economy we do need to boost, yes, but we're already getting a trickle of metal tools, and I think you're over estimating how effective metal weapons are vs more bodies to throw at the problem. The Zulu empire actually managed to beat the main British army despite relying mostly on spears and hide shields. Yes they lost the war because the British had superior logistics and refused to let their guard down after that disastrous battle, but they still won that fight because they had more bodies to throw at their enemy than they could deal with. We need to remove that weakness from us first, because right now the only thing that let's us keep up are our terrain bonuses.
We've been pushing off warriors even more than metalworkers, and our history of military conflict clearly shows that. We need to make a dedicated push on our warriors soon, because who knows when they're going to be needed, and at what strength.
I hope we'll get an econ and/or mysticism boost from the megaproject, because we'll need to spend on diplomatic actions to take full advantage and whatever we need to do next turn.
- Location
- Austria
Main - Restore Harmony
Secondary - New Trails
Secondary - Expand Warriors
Something like this? It wastes Diplo bonus of the Heroic Diplomacy leader, but it answers the challenges of the situation, so...
We'll see at the vote itself. If we have +1 Stability or higher, maybe we can Main something else...although again, if we have an option of even bigger refugee input, getting Restore on top of +1 to get all the Economy can be viable; after all, those refugees are people we are taking in, and bigger population means more warriors.
Besides, we are most likely more populous than Dead Priests, so we are the ones who can probably throw more bodies at the problem - although we lack their massed warfare tactics, so...
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
We have a higher population, but most of that is tied up in our infrastructure, where-as the DP have spent a lot of time improving their force projection.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Eh a generation after the Scourge megaproject is done should boost our population tenfold, Disease is the biggest killer in the human population.
Having slept on it, I'm pretty sure having an unauthorized trade mission and a heroic diplomat at the same time isn't any kind of coincidence.
Given that, I'd be a lot more annoyed at the bandwagon if we weren't shifting power away from the high chief.
In any case, the idea that we need to take advantage of every opportunity we get needs to die; if we miss out on maximally leveraging a Heroic Diplomacy stat, that's not going to mean much compared to what'll happen if we wait until the Dead Priests are invading to try to train more warriors.
Given that, I'd be a lot more annoyed at the bandwagon if we weren't shifting power away from the high chief.
In any case, the idea that we need to take advantage of every opportunity we get needs to die; if we miss out on maximally leveraging a Heroic Diplomacy stat, that's not going to mean much compared to what'll happen if we wait until the Dead Priests are invading to try to train more warriors.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're probably going to have a shit ton of people. So much that we'll want to expand food production to compensate. But if one considers the new mechanics of our currently winning votes, local leaders will be able to automate more things!
This means that we should try to focus on things that local leaders will just not be able to do in great amounts. I'd figure that all their actions will be small scale and lesser versions of our own civ spanning choices. Certain ones more than others.
I'm just not sure which would be more effective to leave to the Local Chiefs and which are better off being done by the Whole.
This means that we should try to focus on things that local leaders will just not be able to do in great amounts. I'd figure that all their actions will be small scale and lesser versions of our own civ spanning choices. Certain ones more than others.
I'm just not sure which would be more effective to leave to the Local Chiefs and which are better off being done by the Whole.
Motoko
Herald of Iron to The People
- Location
- Canada, ontario
You need to realize that Britain was using a fraction of the amount of people the zulu were using DUE to the advanced military tech they had. Metal weapons (and hopefully armour soon) are an amazing force multiplier, and it will mean we need less people to do just as much damage, so therefore if we go and put the same amount of effort into expanding warriors anyway..... They'll be far better than they would without the metal weapons. ALSO, metal tools and construction means that theoretically less effort and labour needs to go into something to get final product I.E. Imagine cutting down trees and cutting plants with stone. Now imagine doing it with metal. What one do you need to put more effort into to get the same product?(This goes without saying the durability and reparability of metal tools and building products Vs. stone oneness) It really should boost our econ by a fair margin.
TLDR: Better tools = Less labour, Less labour = Less people required for certain tasks. War included.
I'm curious. Why do you think we don't have writing? It's listed in the tech list and have been for ages. It's been referenced several times in the text. Just this turn people were going through old records. What did you think that was if not writing?We need writing.Pity we have no idea on how to acquire it. Maybe our increased bureaucracy would help...
Is it just that you've mentally equated writing with an alphabetic system? I mean, logographic writing may demand a bit more of your memory, but it's still writing and it has its own advantages over alphabetic (or abjad or abugida) writing.
The logographic writing are for keeping track of things, not yet used to record or communicate ideas in general.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
I fail to see how Britain using a fraction of the people they could have changes the fact that, because they weren't ready or respected their enemy due to their inferior technology, the Zulu beat their main force in battle thanks to superior numbers. My argument is that superior technology helps warriors, yes, but it doesn't help as much as having a large pool of warriors in the first place. Both are good, and we should rush to get them, but having more bodies on the field will help bring us to parity with the Dead Priest more than metal weapons.
Better tools does mean less people needed for certain tasks, but I'm saying to reach the Dead Priests level, without our home territory as a modifier, we need to up the number of people we have.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think their point of confusion is we don't (iirc) have widespread literacy. We have writing, but its reserved to the chiefs, shamans and the grain counters.
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