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Paths of Civilization

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[X][Merc] Yes

[X][Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X][Sec] Repair Damage

[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest

[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control

I almost like @notgreat 's plan, but with one caveat: Repairing damage. If we can do Main, we must do Main. Just for narrative effects.
Otherwise, it's pretty much all I wanted.
 
[X][Merc] Yes

[X][Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X][Sec] Repair Damage

[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest

[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
 
notgreat said:
We can afford to start it now. It costs 3 econ and 3 culture, and luckily we end up with exactly 3 culture to spare after our Proclaim Glory and Enforce Justice. This does mean that we aren't too likely to finish it immediately via passives since other factions can't add any actions to it, but we might be able to [React] finish it. If not, it'll be finished via passives next turn.
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Sadly.

Divinely Glorious Elites = 3 Culture
Great Library = 3 Culture (it advanced at double rate last time, is this because of our culture hero?)
Proclaim Glory = 3 Culture

All Culture is accounted for this turn.

We need to find ways to generate a lot more culture. It should be noted that every free city will generate +1 culture.
 
Wheel of progress will not be denied, finally the clerks can unload some of their enormous paperwork to private parties.
 
bluefur87 said:
Sadly.

Divinely Glorious Elites = 3 Culture
Great Library = 3 Culture (it advanced at double rate last time, is this because of our culture hero?)
Proclaim Glory = 3 Culture

All Culture is accounted for this turn.

We need to find ways to generate a lot more culture. It should be noted that every free city will generate +1 culture.
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DGE is in income.
 
[X][Merc] Yes

[X][Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X][Sec] Repair Damage

[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest

[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
 
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
[X] [Merc] Yes
[X] [Agenda] Sea Control

The guilds can build more boats, the main repair is much better anyway.
 
bluefur87 said:
Sadly.

Divinely Glorious Elites = 3 Culture
Great Library = 3 Culture (it advanced at double rate last time, is this because of our culture hero?)
Proclaim Glory = 3 Culture

All Culture is accounted for this turn.

We need to find ways to generate a lot more culture. It should be noted that every free city will generate +1 culture.
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Click to shrink...
Divinely Glorious Elites is covered by our other culture income, it doesn't need to be subtracted from our income, since all per turn income/expenses happen at the same time; we can't rely on per turn income to pay for action expenses, but we can rely on it to cancel out per turn expenses

Edit: Brain fart, wrote wealth when i meant culture
 
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If people are hoping to set up an information system to catch Patricians abusing their subordinates, why are they voting for Hunt Troublemakers over Develop Intrigue Web?

To me, the narrative of developing informant ties while Enforcing Justice will push us closer to an internal police model. Hunting Troublemakers roots out existing problems while Develop Intrigue Web sets up a passive scanner that allows us to trigger it later on. This seems, by narrative, more useful than simply trying to eradicate problems that do not yet exist.

If people are hoping that Hunt Troublemakers will help us smite some of the Patricians who were threatening civil war, then I don't think that's too likely. Remember, the issue that the Patricians were going to fight over was the arbitrary tyranny of the king and his ability to instantly demote people at his sufferance. Trying to do that isn't exactly going to make them like us right now. Thanks to Divinely Glorious Elites, we need to make them like us. Patricians are much more likely to redirect the smite towards the Guilds. After all, the Patricians basically have what they want now. The Guilds are threatening economic shutdown and haven't yet been appeased.

We're likely better off setting a snare so that when the Patricians do try to test their limits, it can snap taught in a generation or two.

Academia Nut said:
Develop Intrigue Web [Urban] [Traders] - With contacts in the right places, all sorts of fun things can be done
S: -2 Wealth, -3 Diplo, +1 Intrigue
M: -4 Wealth, -4 Diplo, +2 Intrigue
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Academia Nut said:
Hunt Troublemakers - Those who would do harm to the kingdom rarely plan this openly, so subtle methods are needed to find them and root them out
S: -1 Intrigue, information on problems
M: -1 Intrigue, -2 Wealth, -2 Diplo, 0 to +1 Stability, information on problems
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[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Merc] Yes

Justice and troubleshooting (with crossbows) all the way.

Hopefully we hunt trouble on both land and sea, so I approval voted a second hunt just in case there is a hope in hell it gets support.
I recall AN saying a doule main would likely lead to an uglier version of land privatization, so hopefully slow and steady can win, like with 3 secondaries over the next two turns instead of double mains.

Edit: removed the x2 Dist land since Patricians are likely to take a main anyway, hopefully mitigates the effects.
 
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[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
[X] [Merc] Yes
[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
 
notgreat said:
Ok, this does a few things differently. First of all, no Warships. Why? Because we need to trust the guilds. They have 2 main actions available, and they're not idiots. They can see we clearly need warships. As long as we budget it correctly, they can and almost certainly will make warships for us.
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We have to trust not only the Guilds, but EVERYONE ELSE. Why? Because if anyone decides to use up some wealth, suddenly we can't afford Warships any more.
 
agumentic said:
People who vote for warships, patronage and repair - you do understand that it is over our wealth, right?
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Oh, good point. Should take repair as main instead, then it doesn't cost Wealth but more Tech. Can drop the Secondary Warships since the Traders will likely take their own action there.
 
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Abby Normal said:
Divinely Glorious Elites is covered by our other wealth income, it doesn't need to be subtracted from our income, since all per turn income/expenses happen at the same time; we can't rely on per turn income to pay for action expenses, but we can rely on it to cancel out per turn expenses
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Well good to know that it gets rolled into income, but it should be noted that.
Academia Nut said:
Divinely Glorious Elites (Maxed Development)
A well lead life is one of excellence in all things at all levels, from the stitch of cloth to prowess on the battlefield to skill in oration. The best and finest is thus demanded of and by all to show their virtue and honour, in the knowledge that those that rise to the top will be supported by excellence below.
Pros: Increase Martial gain from raising elite units; bonus Culture, Tech and/or Mysticism for certain actions; effect of criticals and doubles greatly increased; ruling faction gains an additional faction power
Cons: Increased potential Martial loss in fighting, increased social stratification, increased costs, dominant faction can no longer be suppressed, -3 Culture/ turn (need more academies)
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It costs culture, not wealth.
 
I just want to say-
ExNihilo said:
So, yeah, missed the pre-lockdown conversation, but one thing really struck me-people really not liking Divinely Glorious Elites, and the Honor of Elites values tree in general. It is my second favorite value we have, after only PK, beating out Pride in Acceptance and Personal Stewards of Nature, both of which I also adore. Two main reasons present themselves for why-well, one main reason, and a side-effect. I will not deny it has flaws, but I believe it's positives greatly outweigh them.

The main reason is the synergy it provides with the best value and value chain ever, Philosopher Kings and Observance. Above all else, DGE promotes and downright requires competence. PK promotes and requires testing. The combination-people rise in power because they are the best at what they do. It functions as a primitive meritocracy-if you are good at something, seek to become better, and you can earn praise because of it. Honestly, little would make me happier than the combination of the two, creating the new Spiritual/Honor trait of "Strive for More," which would emphasize tested study and knowledge in every aspect of society, not just research, even if I know we really aren't ready for a trait like that.

The side effect is obvious-more academies and libraries. Having a strong reason to push for more libraries and academies will improve our nation overall, and have excellent synergy with the two traits. Yeah, simple, and we would have gotten around to it eventually, but more education will boost the power these traits output significantly.

Next, an analysis-what, exactly, has changed from LoA, beyond the bit that has everyone freaking out? First, "at all levels." This is the bit that really sells it to me-everyone is aiming to be the best, across all fields, in a way that LoA didn't. Following up is the new clause (I think that's the word for it?) at the end, at the top supported by excellence alone-the elite know they depend on every step before them, that they stand on the shoulders of giants. This is great. Mechanically, the Ruling Faction's additional power is nice, probably, if the Guilds ever take over they will probably keep their max wealth thing, more econ cap is always nice, even if it fluctuates, the only faction, that if it took power we wouldn't want to keep its abilities are the priests, and I don't think Maxi's gains here can convince people to swing all the way to theocracy.

The main con is obvious-the ruling faction can't be suppressed, but that isn't true, Division of power merely means to suppress them, it requires some combination of two supports and passes in quests. This makes getting a new social slot for it to fit into is a must-evolving it to one or one and something else would make the con basically negated. The trait is really powerful and must be enshrined.

So, not going full feudal, but I will super not support anything going against DGE. Keeping elites at their best has been one of our most powerful traits, and interesting narratively, I hope to see it progress further.
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... Precisely that.

I love the Elite traitline. One of the core aspects of the Ymaryn are their scientific inclinations (religion gets actually debated) and being greek-like in striving for perfection in body and mind.

Philosopher Kings are the ideal Kings, after all.
Academia Nut said:
It is both a banhammer and a hammer weapon from Bloodborne, which is where @ManusDomine's avatar comes from
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How many levels of meta is that?!
 
The Honor of Elites value line is the worst thing that has happend to the Ymaryn. Should have picked the Lords Loyalty evolution instead. The only thing that can help us dig us out of this hole is locking Divison of Power and evolve it as fast and high as possible. While Greater Justice keeps the worst excesses at bay. Hopefully we don't turn into a feudal shithole before we can fix this.
 
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