BungieOni's vote is very foolish. It frees a major religious center on the steppe without also freeing Sacred Forest to counter it. It launches an intrigue mission for no reason. Also, we need to Repair Damage now that we have the option and it doesn't include that.
So, as you may have noticed from the picture at the end of the last post I knew people were going to get angry. This is different from deliberately setting out to make you lot angry.
Look, when you are in opposition to the elites of society, handing them more power is unlikely to advance the goals you want. I could have made the upgrade different, sure, but the Elite trait line was always going to increase stratification and the power of elites. Given everything else going on at the time, it fit to increase the power of the dominant faction. However, that much of a jump required a cost, and having it so that the elite now have so much power and support that they can no longer effectively be suppressed via direct action (since they are the ones coordinating every level said direct action) made sense.
And yes, the two patrician Martial Geniuses will be supporting the patrician faction in the event of a civil war, especially if pushed for early. The primary opposers to Distribute Land within the People are the priests and the urban patricians, everyone else is pretty much either for it or completely apathetic to the issue. So for a self-triggered civil war those would be the groups leading the anti-distribute faction.
Also, there were a number of errors that snuck through. Most of them on the action sheet should be corrected, and most of the important ones on the front page should be corrected now, although I'm pretty sure there's still stuff in need of tweaking. As such, I am resetting the vote. Please keep a consistent tagging pattern of [Sec], [Guild Sec], and [Agenda]. Vote will close tomorrow and an update is unlikely before Saturday or Sunday. Also, will probably be on slow mode for the rest of December.
That I find quite unfair, given the King is the character is supposed to be the character we control, he should still side with our decisions regardless of how much sense they make to him, since that was what the King always did, even the Heroic ones
I mean really was sense is there behind this quest, if we cannot even decide our actions and our opinions and desires are sidelined for NPCs?
We don't control the king, we control the kingdom. If we really want something to happen that the king doesn't want, events IC will conspire to force the events in the direction we want. (Ex: Trelli war with a pacifist king forced by Priests, or King who wanted his charioteer son to take over has the son killed in an accident.)
The only way we could stop the king from not doing DL in this case is civil war.
That I find quite unfair, given the King is the character is supposed to be the character we control, he should still side with our decisions regardless of how much sense they make to him, since that was what the King always did, even the Heroic ones
I mean really was sense is there behind this quest, if we cannot even decide our actions and our opinions and desires are sidelined for NPCs?
..................oh for fucks sake, our king is not a god, he can't go against the entirety of the kingdom just because. If it's basically suicide to do an action, doing it will rightfully get a king replaced, hero or not.
Errors for the civ sheet and Action List: (@Academia Nut )
-Cent tolerance should be 8, not 9
All cities are active, and we still don't have enough palaces to support an extra city, so that's 4 unsupported for adminstrain.
[High Centralization Tolerance: 8]
-Government Base "High" (5)
-21 Interconnectivity (+7) [+1 per 3 IC]
-Legacies (+3)
-17 Provinces (-1) [-1 per 2 provinces over 16, round up]
-4 Unsupported True Cities (-4) [-1 per Unsupported City. Free Cities and Capital are supported. Governor's Palaces can support 1 city per 3 GPs.]
-2 Governor's Palaces (-2) [-1 per GP]
-Gilded age shouldn't be listed as a status
-(Moderate?) Pirates should be listed as a status
-Gov palace listing is still completely out of date, missing both all the changes from the annexes and any info on the level 2 versions
-Expand forests should have priests tag as well as yeomen
-Blackmouth should have (0/6) Market and valleyhome should have (0/12) market.
City list is currently:
-Valleyhome (-2 Econ Upkeep) <Level 1> [38 EE Threshold]
---[Capital, Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls]
-Blackmouth (-3 Econ Upkeep) <Level 2> [33 EE Threshold]
---[Governor's Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls] <Block Housing 1>
-Sacred Forest (-2 Econ Upkeep) <Level 1> [31 EE Threshold]
---[Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls]
-Stallion Pen (-2 Econ Upkeep) <Level 1> [27 EE Threshold]
---[Aqueduct, Mass. Walls]
-Lower Valleyhome (-2 Econ Upkeep) <Level 1> [22 EE Threshold]
---[Aqueduct, Sig. Walls]
@Academia Nut Thanks for all your hard work. I know that I really enjoy this quest, even when something frustrating like this turn happens, and I really appreciate all your work in keeping this going.
[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
Ok, this does a few things differently. First of all, no Warships. Why? Because we need to trust the guilds. They have 2 main actions available, and they're not idiots. They can see we clearly need warships. As long as we budget it correctly, they can and almost certainly will make warships for us.
However, they only have a main action, which means it's better for us to make the harbour with our guild secondary, whereas they'd need to spend a whole main action and make two.
The big change however, is the Governor's Palace. We NEED one more GP, and we need it soon- next turn at the absolute latest. Getting that GP is:
1) +1 Tech refund (goes from 1.5 to 2.0, rounds down). This should average something like +7 Tech/turn going by previous turns
2) +1 RA tolerance. This is very important because if we don't get this, we hit red RA due to the priest quest finishing. This is bad. Let's not add another fire to the mix, yeah?
3) +1 Secondary action. Do I really need to explain why this is important?
4) No change in our Cent cap: we get -1 to our cap, but also gain +1 Admin-free True City, countering that penalty. -0.5 Minimum Centralization is nice, but we don't want to be near our minimum anyway. +1 max interconnectivity I guess is somewhat useful?
5) -1 Temp Econ damage. Not a huge benefit since we already have so much, but every little bit helps
We can afford to start it now. It costs 3 econ and 3 culture, and luckily we end up with exactly 3 culture to spare after our Proclaim Glory and Enforce Justice. This does mean that we aren't too likely to finish it immediately via passives since other factions can't add any actions to it, but we might be able to [React] finish it. If not, it'll be finished via passives next turn.
It also has a {S} Repair Damage, because we really shouldn't leave them hanging for too long.
It does, it's just that the King, who get's the legitimacy bonus, is siding with the pro DL faction no matter what due to his excellent Admin and Patrician connections. So it means that even if we try to civil war, the king gets enough power to easily crush us.
Legitimacy is how people view the ruler, not the zeitgeist.
Except narratively it has also been the King that we control. We have seen that our decisions are the decisions of the King. Check through the updates. Our votes were decreed by the King. To suddenly change that now is... Eeeh.
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Merc] Yes
Ok, changing back to Sacred Forest now that Abby's calculations are up. At least it's not Stallionpen. Droping one of the Warship votes, since the Traders will fill in with their secondary.
[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
Ok, this does a few things differently. First of all, no Warships. Why? Because we need to trust the guilds. They have 2 main actions available, and they're not idiots. They can see we clearly need warships. As long as we budget it correctly, they can and almost certainly will make warships for us.
However, they only have a main action, which means it's better for us to make the harbour with our guild secondary, whereas they'd need to spend a whole main action and make two.
The big change however, is the Governor's Palace. We NEED one more GP, and we need it soon- next turn at the absolute latest. Getting that GP is:
1) +1 Tech refund (goes from 1.5 to 2.0, rounds down). This should average something like +7 Tech/turn going by previous turns
2) +1 RA tolerance. This is very important because if we don't get this, we hit red RA due to the priest quest finishing. This is bad. Let's not add another fire to the mix, yeah?
3) +1 Secondary action. Do I really need to explain why this is important?
4) No change in our Cent cap: we get -1 to our cap, but also gain +1 Admin-free True City, countering that penalty. -0.5 Minimum Centralization is nice, but we don't want to be near our minimum anyway. +1 max interconnectivity I guess is somewhat useful?
5) -1 Temp Econ damage. Not a huge benefit since we already have so much, but every little bit helps
We can afford to start it now. It costs 3 econ and 3 culture, and luckily we end up with exactly 3 culture to spare after our Proclaim Glory and Enforce Justice. This does mean that we aren't too likely to finish it immediately via passives since other factions can't add any actions to it, but we might be able to [React] finish it. If not, it'll be finished via passives next turn.
It also has a {S} Repair Damage, because we really shouldn't leave them hanging for too long.
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x2
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x3
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x4
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x3
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x4
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Stallionpen
Ok, this does a few things differently. First of all, no Warships. Why? Because we need to trust the guilds. They have 2 main actions available, and they're not idiots. They can see we clearly need warships. As long as we budget it correctly, they can and almost certainly will make warships for us.
So, as you may have noticed from the picture at the end of the last post I knew people were going to get angry. This is different from deliberately setting out to make you lot angry.
