Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Intrigue Mission (Patrician)
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
 
Come on everyone, we can still go against the tide. We just need 15 votes to No DL.

Edit.

Why Atlas. Why you do this.
 
veekie said:
Was doing shipping as well to shoot for the Agenda Sync bonus
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please, for the love of all that is good, change the tags in your vote. People vote for you by name or just copy the vote, it's all messes up the tally. Let's not add that to the pile.

Also, speaking of tallies, we need to watch out to make sure we free two cities this turn - losing social slot due to voting mistake would feel just awful.
 
Stop: I did not win
  • Staff Post
    • i did not win The following have been in violation of the rules:

    @Oirbse if you disagree with a post, do not abuse the funny rating; respond in person rather than rating it and moving on your way. Take a warning for marginal behaviour and a three-day threadban.

    @tryrar if you disagree with a vote, do not call everyone who supports it 'assholes'; take a warning for marginal behaviour but no threadban, it is not particularly egregious.

    The thread has been unlocked; please do try to stay civil for more than two posts. If you have issues with a vote, please do try to engage with a post rather than posting something that can be boiled down to "I think you're stupid and you smell! >:[".
     
  • Staff Post
    • So, yeah, missed the pre-lockdown conversation, but one thing really struck me-people really not liking Divinely Glorious Elites, and the Honor of Elites values tree in general. It is my second favorite value we have, after only PK, beating out Pride in Acceptance and Personal Stewards of Nature, both of which I also adore. Two main reasons present themselves for why-well, one main reason, and a side-effect. I will not deny it has flaws, but I believe it's positives greatly outweigh them.

    The main reason is the synergy it provides with the best value and value chain ever, Philosopher Kings and Observance. Above all else, DGE promotes and downright requires competence. PK promotes and requires testing. The combination-people rise in power because they are the best at what they do. It functions as a primitive meritocracy-if you are good at something, seek to become better, and you can earn praise because of it. Honestly, little would make me happier than the combination of the two, creating the new Spiritual/Honor trait of "Strive for More," which would emphasize tested study and knowledge in every aspect of society, not just research, even if I know we really aren't ready for a trait like that.

    The side effect is obvious-more academies and libraries. Having a strong reason to push for more libraries and academies will improve our nation overall, and have excellent synergy with the two traits. Yeah, simple, and we would have gotten around to it eventually, but more education will boost the power these traits output significantly.

    Next, an analysis-what, exactly, has changed from LoA, beyond the bit that has everyone freaking out? First, "at all levels." This is the bit that really sells it to me-everyone is aiming to be the best, across all fields, in a way that LoA didn't. Following up is the new clause (I think that's the word for it?) at the end, at the top supported by excellence alone-the elite know they depend on every step before them, that they stand on the shoulders of giants. This is great. Mechanically, the Ruling Faction's additional power is nice, probably, if the Guilds ever take over they will probably keep their max wealth thing, more econ cap is always nice, even if it fluctuates, the only faction, that if it took power we wouldn't want to keep its abilities are the priests, and I don't think Maxi's gains here can convince people to swing all the way to theocracy.

    The main con is obvious-the ruling faction can't be suppressed, but that isn't true, Division of power merely means to suppress them, it requires some combination of two supports and passes in quests. This makes getting a new social slot for it to fit into is a must-evolving it to one or one and something else would make the con basically negated. The trait is really powerful and must be enshrined.

    So, not going full feudal, but I will super not support anything going against DGE. Keeping elites at their best has been one of our most powerful traits, and interesting narratively, I hope to see it progress further.
     
    [X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
    [X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
    [X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
    [X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
    [X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
    [X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
    [X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2

    Edit:
    ManusDomine said:
    The thread has been unlocked; please do try to stay civil for more than two posts.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Quest completed
    Failure -1 Stability averted
    Magnus-Domon-Priestfaction gained 1 power :V
     
    Last edited:
    Right, so, civil war will have geniuses on DL side, so that's pretty much it for that idea.

    We now have 9th action, but we also need to repair damage after earthquake, so let's spend that action there.
     
    Last edited:
    WoAN provided to us via Discord during the thread lock:
    Also, now that I think about it, if you're talking on Discord, you can pass along (this will be posted in thread when it is unlocked) that your current Martial Geniuses will side with the Patricians in the event of a Civil War. Like, during a Civil War the players can choose the faction to control, and the pro-distribute faction will probably have about 80% of the economy and military on their side. The only reason Alyx hasn't distributed is because his advisors have convinced him that it's not currently a good idea, he personally supports it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Needless to say, Civil War is complete suicide.
     
    Last edited:
    Now that the thread is unlocked...can we please get the people copying veekie's vote to change theirs to the format that the rest of us are using due to inertia? I get a headache just looking at the tally, I have no idea what's winning.
     
    Inserted tally
    Adhoc vote count started by 8bitBob on Dec 5, 2017 at 4:13 PM, finished with 139107 posts and 66 votes.
    Click to expand...
     
    Other Changes:
    We are currently voting for nine player secondaries and one guild secondary.

    Repair Damage - The earthquake in Hatvalley caused considerable damage, and numerous mines are offline and the farms are only just recovering in places. Aid would help sort that out.
    *S: -5 Econ, -3 Tech, -2 Wealth, +4 EE, +2 Econ next turn, mine output restored, other effects
    *M: -6 Econ, -4 Tech, -3 EE, +5 EE, +4 Econ next turn, mine output restored, other effects
     
    Last edited:
    @Academia Nut
    How far (geographical) does our rubber-banding reach?
    How detailed to you play the other factions?
    How does it work if we encounter someone with new technology?
    do we get a reverse engineer roll or just a bonus for discovering said technology?
     
    So I typed a thing while the thread was locked.

    The fundamental problem we are facing here is that local officials are threatening to develop rights to privatized land ownership. While this can seem harmless in and of itself, it allows for immense amounts of power to be gained as land is incredibly important to the well being of the state as a whole and a necessary commodity for various people who need somewhere to live. The first is a problem that creates multiple problems, improper use of the land can threaten the local ecology and holding onto the land can cause people to snowball in terms of power as they exploit their ownership over it to gain more land, quickly gaining local monopolies. This power can then be used over other people who can't hope to be able to gain land to force them into compliance for whatever the land owner wants. The major threats here are heavy abuses of the law and the threatening of individual rights.

    To try to solve this with a civil war will see a drastic series of reforms that will do little more than turn the whoever ends up as patricians against the central government as their rights are immensely limited to stop such a thing from repeating. The better way to fix this issue is one of Law. Law of how the land is allowed to be handled and law of individual's rights.

    Connectivity
    Connectivity is the measure of how interconnected our society is, currently measured by roads and harbours and able to increase the maximum amount of connectivity through harbours and governor's palaces. In order to allow the common person to bring complaints about their local authority to a higher authority, to allow for ideas, and thus social reforms, to spread faster, and to allow the central government to assert its authority through receiving news and deploying forces more easily, connectivity is going to be crucial in both increasing the rights of the common person and having proper oversight of a central authority.

    Goals:
    • Reach maximum connectivity. Immediate goal of at least half connectivity.
    • Upgraded roads, boats, and horse message systems.
    Education
    Education refers to how well taught the common person is, currently we do not have any number that gives us a good idea for measurement of it's strength, though mysticism does roughly represent this. It will be needed to increase the complexity of our central government and to keep the position of various patricians competitive. Without having it in excess, we can't hope to break beyond our current administrative and cultural restraints.

    Goals:
    • Increase Higher Education: 1 Academy/Province: Academies require thorough study to the point where attending one is effectively a job. (Full time job commitment)
    • Increase Medium Education: 3-4 Libraries/Province: Libraries require a person's dedicated effort and support from the clerks to learn from. (Time free commitment)
      • Will need temples to attach them to after running out of cities.
    • Saturate Lower Education: 1 Temple/Settlement: Temples require semi-regular attendance and interaction with the clergy to learn from. (Least time commitment)
      • Need to find a way to deal with ridiculous amounts of RA to actually do this.
    Culture
    Culture is the established beliefs and creation of new concepts for the intricacies of human interaction, a relative amount of how much of our current culture strength we have is represented as the culture stat. In order for people to develop individual identities while working within the state, there needs to be an immense amount and diversity of culture. It will likely cause clashes of ideals, but people will need to be able to stand as individuals for individual rights to be enforced.

    Goals:
    • Increase Cultural Institutions: 1 Theatre/City
    • Develop traveling entertainers
    • Use a very long winded golden age to evolve and add several values
    • Large amounts of culture may be needed to perform various advances. As such, finding ways of gaining culture more efficiently will be important in the near future.
    Law
    Law is what controls how the government operates and is advanced through various megaprojects, with the biggest ones of note being Law megaprojects. In order to handle the increase in responsibilities and the new rights that people are asking for, several new and very complex laws will need to be made. At the very least this will require the current megaproject.

    Goals:
    • Complete the Law Megaproject (May see benefit after great library, and we need to make it as strong as possible)
      • Develop Laws that dictate the proper governance of land in the King's name
      • Develop Laws that enshrine the rights of individuals
    • Develop Courthouses (In order to enforce central authority in far flung areas, could be considered part of connectivity)
    • Increase Education and government infrastructure to unlock further Law Megaprojects.
    Government Oversight
    Government Oversight is the portion of government that fights against corruption. In order to stop many potential abuses of the government's power being handed out to various officials, we will have to develop a branch and various tools specifically geared towards stopping that.

    Goals:
    • Merge Enforce Justice and Hunt Troublemakers.
    • When Using Distribute Land, always combine it with Enforce Justice, Hunt Troublemakers, and Proclaim Glory, even if Stability and/or Legitimacy are both full unless the laws for these actions have been thoroughly established and enforced.
      • The king's position is that of being the person who holds and governs all the lands in trust of the divine. He is, in essence, the Divine Steward of the land. That is the major part of his legitimacy as king. Thus, when distributing land, it is important to re-enforce the notion that this land is still fundamentally his responsibility, and that it the land is being distributed in a fair and just manner.
    • Develop a branch of central government dedicated to oversight.
    • Develop several internal investigation tools to increase strength of government oversight.
      • An advancement of the Census would be a good start.
    I'll wait for stats to update before casting my vote.
     
    My vote is still undecided, is BungieOni's still good? Or what is needed to make the vote better?
     
    Sivantic said:
    It is a little frustrating that High Legitimacy means little though. I thought it was specifically for things like this.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It does, it's just that the King, who get's the legitimacy bonus, is siding with the pro DL faction no matter what due to his excellent Admin and Patrician connections. So it means that even if we try to civil war, the king gets enough power to easily crush us. :V

    Legitimacy is how people view the ruler, not the zeitgeist.
     
    [X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
    [X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
    [X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
    [X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
    [X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
    [X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
    [X] [Secondary] Art Patronage
    [X] [Secondary] More Warships
    [X] [Secondary] Repair Damage
    [X] [Guild Secondary] More Warships
    [X] [King's Agenda] Sea Control
    [X] [Merc] Yes

    Art Patronage adopted because veekie made a compelling argument for it being very useful given our cultural hero. Changed from Sacred Forest to Lower Valleyhome to improve Blackmouth's chances.
     
    8bitBob said:
    WoAN provided to us via Discord during the thread lock:



    Needless to say, Civil War is complete suicide.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    That I find quite unfair, given that the King is the character we are supposed to control, he should still side with our decisions regardless of how much sense they make to him, since that was what the King always did, even the Heroic ones, as IC they where their decisions

    I mean really what sense is there behind this quest, if we cannot even decide our actions and our opinions and desires are sidelined for NPCs?
     
    Last edited:
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top