- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wrong and I got a couple of cites to prove it.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Wrong and I got a couple of cites to prove it.
- Location
- Canada
Their also about to be attacked by the Saffron Isles and possibly other civs. If our mercenary companies were enough than AN wouldn't recommend we stay on Offensive policy.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
Modification is not damaging the option choosing to downgrade one of our traits was this one.
[Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance) - possibility of Ethinic cleansing
I was going for even in the best possible case were the changing of the law stops all abuse of the halve-exiles the situation is worse.
Do we really want to get sucked into a quagmire of Freehills own making though? We had a strategic interest in the lowlands so it made sense. But fighting Freehills war for them doesn't do much for us. They're also a good bit stronger than the Harmurri were so even if they take some losses they're unlikely to get rolled up entirely and a new polity taking their place on our border.
- Location
- Canada
They also control the straits blocking pirates from getting in and don't charge us signficant wealth costs for it. I mean, saving one participant and not the other kind of makes us look flaky and the Games seem less powerful.
The games shouldn't be expected to be guaranteed a Ymaryn bail out though. That would be a horrible precedent I'd say. The only people that should expect guaranteed military intervention from us should be our subordinates.
- Location
- Staring into the void
One was defending themselves, the other started it.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
The game CB should only be viable when the attendee is near death, not when their expansion backfired. FH had bloated too much anyway and Tin Tribe and Saffron Island counterstrike is good for stability of the region. Wonder what's happening to KH tho.
With the choices made for actions/policies and how much the mercenary companies have been mauled we can't intervene in support of Freehills whatever happens.
We're just far, far too action constrained given that we have two doom clocks running that will probably kill us if we don't deal with them ASAP. As soon as the decision was made to take a repeated forest policy for the King action that decision was made.
Now, because of those choices, the Yeomen don't have to spend either of their two actions next turn on Forests to succeed on their quest, so they can take double main Black Soil*. That should raise LTE high enough that we won't be getting any more cities, and the turn after we'll be in danger of popping free cities.
Unless we get really lucky on reaction options for this turn - which is unlikely as we have high enough Economy and Wealth that we're unlikely to trigger actions that consume Economic Expansion, we're likely to be in a serious action crunch.
* The Yeomen, like all our factions, aren't complete fools. They'll want to increase the number of actions they get. The very much easiest way for them to do it is to spam Black Soil until all our cities pop. They can increase EE very fast if they want to. It's slower and less efficient for them to take New Settlement Actions, but they can happily switch to that when they've popped our cities, getting more provinces and driving our centralisation cap down, further restricting our ability to control them. The Yeomen, even without any spite at all, have a massive ability to completely run away and eat the rest of our civilization.
We're just far, far too action constrained given that we have two doom clocks running that will probably kill us if we don't deal with them ASAP. As soon as the decision was made to take a repeated forest policy for the King action that decision was made.
Now, because of those choices, the Yeomen don't have to spend either of their two actions next turn on Forests to succeed on their quest, so they can take double main Black Soil*. That should raise LTE high enough that we won't be getting any more cities, and the turn after we'll be in danger of popping free cities.
Unless we get really lucky on reaction options for this turn - which is unlikely as we have high enough Economy and Wealth that we're unlikely to trigger actions that consume Economic Expansion, we're likely to be in a serious action crunch.
* The Yeomen, like all our factions, aren't complete fools. They'll want to increase the number of actions they get. The very much easiest way for them to do it is to spam Black Soil until all our cities pop. They can increase EE very fast if they want to. It's slower and less efficient for them to take New Settlement Actions, but they can happily switch to that when they've popped our cities, getting more provinces and driving our centralisation cap down, further restricting our ability to control them. The Yeomen, even without any spite at all, have a massive ability to completely run away and eat the rest of our civilization.
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- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Of course, given that none of our other factions want the cities to pop, they could also take LTE negative actions to cancel out the Yeomen's Black Soil spam. Or even grab enough Sustainable Forest uses that the Yeomen risk failing their quest.
They pretty much can't, if they want to pass their own quests, which is what they prioritise. The guilds are the only people that can really fight them, and they're too busy building their Level four Ironworks, with actions that cost Econ that's refunded into EE. If they do abandon their quest to fight the Yeomen, we're in real trouble, as we'll fail their quest or have to suppress it as well.
To make matters worse, the Patricians will probably help them. They currently want to destroy the Ymaryn state system and replace it with their own. Destabilizing it is in their interests. They also don't really benefit from cities. The priests, from an organised religion that exults the simple rural lifestyle and hates urban sophistication and decadence, wouldn't oppose them, and might well help. They also don't benefit from cities. I could easily see them taking -E +EE actions, like manually building Temples and Observatories. A couple of Build Temples actions each turn to give themselves an extra level two temple would be the gift that keeps on giving for them.
None of the factions bar the Yeomen can take Expand Economy, and why would they, when it's pretty directly opposed to their interests? After all, they won't be the ones starving.
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- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Mmm. True. I'm honestly not sure that the Yeomen will be so blatantly aggressive in their actions, but it's a possibility. That's the kind of thing I'd expect the Yeomen to do if they were trying to spite us, but they're actually pretty happy with us at the moment. I suppose we'll have to see exactly what the faction actions look like in the coming turn.
...Perhaps this is me being nit picky, but why would the Yeomen spam black soil?
New Settlement gets more LTE and works its way to getting a new province. They also can't main black soil, so...
Also, they are obviously not making it their goal to pop cities no matter what or they'd be taking the Expansion passives instead of forestry which lowers it.
The thing is, from the Yeoman perspective, that's not spiteing us. It's very annoying for us, the players, but for the Yeomen it's just a gradual economic development of the Ymaryn in a preferential direction, just as it has gradually evolved away from them over the past couple of centuries. It doesn't really risk, from their perspective, causing the collapse of civilization, it just means that things gradually return back to the (mythical) good ole days, when their younger kids could always bring new land into production and stay as part of the rural middle classes rather than having to fall down into the urban poor to seek their fortune.
This is simply rational self-interest for them. They don't have to hate the institution of the monarchy and the other power groups in Ymaryn society to do this. It's simply business. Those other power groups (save the urban poor), would probably survive the transition in some form.
The other way to look at it is that it's simply self-defence. The thread is currently planning to cripple their ability to do anything by taking away literally all their actions. Why wouldn't they attempt to defend what's their's when they come under attack from the government like that? And after you've had to defend yourself once, well, the precedent is set, and everyone knows the best way to win is to get your retaliation in first.
Now, of course, we could be very lucky with our reaction actions and get the opportunity for cash crops despite having near max wealth, or the Yeomen could sacrifice almost all their ability to act and donate that ability, with a heavy discount, to the Crown, in the knowledge that it will probably be redistributed straight to their rivals in the guilds. But honestly. Would you?
Do we know why they can't Main Black Soil? There's a King tag next to it, but there isn't one next to Distribute Land or War Mission, which is the only action we know are locked to King actions.
Double Main New Settlement in Northern Blackriver would produce +6 EE and +2 E, along with adding a province.
Quadruple Secondary Black Soil would make 8-12 EE and not consume any forests.
The Quadruple secondary would probably be more effective at making sure we couldn't form any cities. They would want to push LTE as high as possible while they know we're distracted with the Patricians and the Guilds, so they can get an enormous lead to make sure we can't reform any cities. To really be safe they'd want to make it almost impossible for any new cities to form again without them having a turn to respond and stamp on the idea, which with our current stat caps, if I understand them correctly, wouldn't take too long.
Before we made our choices for the King's actions and policies, the only way to be confident of succeeding at their quest, which is their first priority, was to take those Forestry policies. I would expect them to switch them to Expansion for next turn now we've made it unnecessary.
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I believe the patricians can take those actions.
Nope.
That's +3/progress. A double main would be +12 EE and +2 Econ that doesn't say it would cost an EE slot, so it would bring the total LTE to +14.
Moar Forests is a pretty common quest for them. And we haven't made it unnecessary, they will have to take at least one forest policy to get what they want.
Edit: Oh, wait, we are also on a passive forest policy. I suppose they can just leave it to us. Still, I can't see them not wanting to complete their quest faster for more faction power.
I fully expect factions to act like idiots in their intense levels of self interest, the Yeomen are certainly not an exception to this, but they're going to be pursuing their goal of more actions with New Settlements, not Black Soil. They also have other quests than lots of EE.
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Also, the talk of forests reminds me.
@Academia Nut
@Academia Nut
There is nothing that is going to change that underlined part, is there? We're going to be stuck on .5 forests forever now, aren't we?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Wouldn't it be better to do it this (main) turn? cause if we wait till next (main) turn that would likely cause a rebellion narratively.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Um...
Why? Suppress lowers their power by -2, and hijacking takes about the same from what I recall. Also they would almost certainly stick a DL in there and then we are sorta boned because they are highly likely to do a lot of it repeatedly.
Also from word of AN they are unlikely to do much like autofailing their quest next turn, and I also take that to mean that(in conjunction with other older things he's said about hijacking) that they won't do that either.
We are going to be sooooo econ screwed, it isn't even funny.
There is no motivation for anyone in the system to take the Expand Economy action... except the players.
Think about it. The Yeomen are the ones with the Expand Economy faction action, but they hate cities, so they like it when Econ goes low.
The Guilds are the ones who like cities most due to our economic system... but they like FREE cities. Free cities don't pop easily. Thus, Guilds won't especially care about EE. Not to mention, since they get lots of their own actions, they likely don't get any province faction actions, so they can't do Expand Economy even if they want to.
The only eetsy beetsy bit of hope we have not to wipe out our econ is our PSN action. Doing PSN each turn fills up 14 Econ; a bit over half of our supply. With this we might limp by.
There is no motivation for anyone in the system to take the Expand Economy action... except the players.
Think about it. The Yeomen are the ones with the Expand Economy faction action, but they hate cities, so they like it when Econ goes low.
The Guilds are the ones who like cities most due to our economic system... but they like FREE cities. Free cities don't pop easily. Thus, Guilds won't especially care about EE. Not to mention, since they get lots of their own actions, they likely don't get any province faction actions, so they can't do Expand Economy even if they want to.
The only eetsy beetsy bit of hope we have not to wipe out our econ is our PSN action. Doing PSN each turn fills up 14 Econ; a bit over half of our supply. With this we might limp by.
If patricians have to hijack anyways, they will probably go for DL just to keep it from being a waste.
OK. Fair enough, you're right, they're likely to push Double Main New Settlements. That's even worse for us though. It's only after they run out of Expansion Room that they'll want to go for Black Soil actions, and then set us a War or Integrate Subordinate quest.
On the Yeomen Forest Quest, they need six forests in two turns to pass their mission. We have a King repeated forest getting two per turn, and a King policy getting one per turn. That's all six they need in the next two turns without them doing anything.
The Yeomen are indeed likely to get other quests apart from increasing EE. However, one of the best ways for them to fulfill them is probably to keep on increasing their actions numbers. Once they have three actions, they can probably pass many quests with three main actions in three turns while dedicating two to New Settlements.
As a side note, Patricians can't currently take Distribute Land. I think they need to hijack a King Action by spending Power to take a war mission.
Many people are convinced by a quote from AN that it's impossible for this to happen. Some, like me, disagree with that interpretation. Either way, because of the potential for some disaster, like both Freehills and the Highland Kingdom imploding and killing our Stability with refugees, to come up that interrupts, it's still better to suppress them as soon as possible that we can combine it with appropriate support actions.
Even ignoring everything else, the possibility of being blown totally off course by events is why we don't have the luxury of time to wait before we put the Patricians back in their (very luxurious) box. We need to do so ASAP.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
How about we Suppress the Guilds, then? The actions they're replacing the Suppress with can't be that bad?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I am in agreement.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*looks at faction status in update*
Hmmm...
Um @Academia Nut should the Guilds not have any say in the faction province actions, and if so why?