- Pronouns
- They/Them
If they still want to Distribute Land after the first Suppression action, maybe.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
If they still want to Distribute Land after the first Suppression action, maybe.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
And suddenly I'm hoping we fail either the Patrician or Guild quest.
Like how we burn through the forest regularly so we can organize things better.
This was mentioned earlier.
About 1 province worth, spread among all of our lands. So on the order of 1.5% of our land per main, and therefore 6% of our land overall.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sadly you are not gonna find support from me since in this case I don't see a legitimate cause for grievance alone. I see a legitimate cause for grievance in the idea that they want land to own to secure their families, but that is grossly outweighed by the fact that they are having this objection in the context of them losing out on their cheap and easy to abuse labor and they obviously want the power to get it back which if done in this context DL would let them do.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
@Academia Nut Would it be possible to implement some sort of Imperial Exam, like China had, with regards how our Aristocracy works?
The Ymaryn state proper won't survive the patricians all entrenching into permanent private sub states. Even as is we're like a punch drunk boxer reeling from one hit after the next, the very fact that the state holds all the land prevents local power from properly capitalizing on those hits for their own agenda (Even then it's quite chancy as evidenced by the western colonies' shenanigans.)
Private ownership didn't destroy western civilization but it destroyed plenty of civilizations within it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In some theoretical sense, if you met the prerequsites? Yes. Now? You would need to massively increase literacy before it would become possible.
- Location
- Illinois
Academies, HO!
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
Coolio, thanks for the answer.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
Alright, everyone who desires social mobility, spiritual policies whenever and where ever we get the chance. We need some goddamn literacy up in this biatch. We're gonna fix our administrators up nice and fancy.
- Location
- Canada
Key word there is yet. If you follow the news you will see them working very hard at it. The problem with opening the door to greed is it never ends despite the reality of finite land and resources. When you allow people to weigh lives for thier perceived value in potential profit that mindset lead to imperialism and global economic darwinism in which the greediest eventually amass control of all key resources and sell them back to goverments while dictating their policies through bribes and lobbying when they don't just pay foreign mercenaries to topple the government and replace it with something more malleable.
This is something I will not budge on.
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
That would be you and Speck, and... that's it, I think.
And sure, yes, Euro-American societies work fine with private land ownership... these days. Personally, I'd rather avoid two millennia of the established nobility abusing the common population. That's what it's mostly about: Keeping our elites in check and as non-hereditary as we can still manage.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
ymaryn delenda est
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
A. Find a way for people to be able to afford education, as education is a resource draining unproductive sink.
B. Setup a place of learning where people can see that getting educated gives a lot more benefit than costs. This creates demand for educators and fuels the supply/demand wheel.
C. NO WAR
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
So Chinese imperial system isn't an example of a working private land ownership and high centralization model? Our elites are mostly hereditary at this point.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
The problem is we can't set a specific system. We can only nudge towards certain developments. DL would be a development making the elites more powerful, and more independently powerful at that - they wouldn't even need the state as powerbase anymore. Worse, it would be a development that makes them and their families even more entrenched. I am aware that thePatricians are already hereditary via mechanisms of monopolizing knowledge and connections; but that doesn't mean we have to make the situation even worse!
Have you considered adding the tag "better lucky than good"?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Possibly. Although maybe I would prefer "better living through the fires of rebirth"
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
But you are not accounting that our current action system rewards all the factions regardless if we DL or not. Guilds and their iron, Yeoman and land, Traders and trade; etc. Not only the Patricians are hereditary, the merchants and guilds are also hereditary for almost as long; remember the trade families were semi-hereditary since they joined during tribal era. You say that DL will make the "situation" worse 100% but don't forget that our past decisions of avoiding seemingly "bad" choices have it's own consequences.
The "problem" of inability to nudge our system towards a Chinese system was that every time DL comes up everyone knee-jerk towards no, even if it was a completely safe GA choice; so it's the voter base actively discourage certain actions and complain when the development locked behind said action didn't occur.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
I'm sorry, but how is that an argument? That's literally just saying "But the situation is already bad!". And I agree! The "We used to be hippy elves" tag is there for a reason. Our society indeed used to be plain better. Ideally, we should find ways to return there. In any case, just because the situation is bad still doesn't mean we have to make the situation worse. Of course, yes, that decision will come with "consequences", but that's so vague as to not be an argument, either. What do you even mean by that?
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
That part that you didn't quote. The first part was pointing out how the current situation was caused by the collective actions of voters and factions. The voters decided to dislike a faction while complaining about the risk of DL without actual assessment or evaluation by doing said action at least once. How would we know what kind of plants are usable? Someone eats it, someone plants it, and someone experiment with it. This situation would have been completely change if we and IC have tangible information on how DL works without any room of difference, which is impossible because keen-jerk was too powerful.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Eh. I personally don't agree. The reasoning I have for this is that things have been bad, but we simply weren't able to see them and AN hadn't made posts like the Naha update to disillusion us.
I mean, from a certain perspective you can treat it like we got worse and you find the same solution, which is try to get better which I really want to do but I do want to be clear on the idea that I don't think even in our past we were all that great either. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, ya know?
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
Possibly. Although maybe I would prefer "better living through the fires of rebirth"
The paid members who can add tag:
Chop. Chop.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm sorry, explain how Distribute Land would lead to widespread literacy gains? Y'know, what AN just said we'd need before the Chinese bureaucratic exams would become remotely viable?