Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Staring into the void
It's not our fault they don't have any other records to go by.
- Location
- Germany
So as I was busy the weekend I couldn't really follow the discussion beyond the fact that our ruling class can disturb land and the updated stat & actions sheets
So can somebody explain to me why we lack any [King] only actions, despite having them before, if not classified as such and whether we have to option to oppose certain action taken by our NPC factions, such as disturbing Land for example, due us as the players simple not agreeing with them?
So can somebody explain to me why we lack any [King] only actions, despite having them before, if not classified as such and whether we have to option to oppose certain action taken by our NPC factions, such as disturbing Land for example, due us as the players simple not agreeing with them?
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
*Ymar. Please.
- Location
- United States
King actions are folded under Patricians actions, which is essentially every action.
Since Patricians are the Ruling Class, they have the ability to take almost any action, though some actions can only be taken in specific circumstances.
We might be able to oppose Faction actions by Supressing said faction, though I'm not sure how it would work exactly.
Loggerhead
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)
[X][Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X][React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X][Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X][PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
"So, as you can see, this is where the gods cut the rock for the Great River to pass through here. It is the hardest rock in the valley system, which makes it a pain to work with, but also the best place to drive our anchors, and one of the narrowest points in the entire region. The plan currently has us building a temporary dam just upstream to divert at least some of the water into one of the side canyons. That region is a bit calmer but the river is wider and the bed is made from gravel and mud rather than solid rock, so it won't hold in the long run once we get a reservoir built up behind it. Anyway, the hard rock here means that once we cut anchor points in, the anchors will fail before the rock. Now, there's a bunch of things that can fail other than the anchors, but those will be fairly significant in terms of overall strength. Still, the stronger we can make the pilings and anchors, the better," the Chief of Dam Construction explained to the king as part of the inspection tour.
Astutely seeing where this was going, the king asked, "You want a budget increase."
Nodding, the Chief said, "We can totally do this with just the resources already planned, but we can make it bigger and stronger with more cement and iron. The reservoir already planned will be big, but with a taller dam and some side dams to keep a few of the less desirable canyons from flooding, we can get the water to spill into this one canyon where we could really easily put a couple dozen mills with easy access to existing roads and the planned canal. If anyone ever wants to make it bigger, the only way to do that would be to build a whole new dam, so if we can build bigger and higher and stronger that would be saving our descendants a lot of hassle."
Modify megaproject?
[] [Dam] Keep as is
[] [Dam] Use stronger materials, keep as is (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs)
[] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
The king then sighed. Administratively things were going well - someone had misallocated funds for the palace expansion but when it had been caught a number of patricians had practically tripped over themselves to correct the issue with their own funds and contacts, resulting in an even bigger expansion than planned, so there was now in fact a second hall that was where the movers and shakers of the kingdom could gather to hash out their issues with each other before going straight for the king's hall, where important things still happened but it was harder to talk openly without causing issue. This also opened up the lower classes in Valleyhome to come in and talk more, also freeing up valuable time. It was all very nice, and highlighted all the other problems.
Like the Highlanders, who had responded to the inquiries as to what they were doing as 'Taking the lowlands'. While they hadn't made any direct threats to the People yet, it was pretty obvious that they were going to attack the Harmurri once they finished off the minor tribes, and then the People would have to either intervene or let the Harmurri fight it out. If the Highlanders won then they would probably turn their eyes towards the People, and if the Harmurri won they would undoubtedly be pissed at being abandoned by people they thought had their backs. Either way, inaction was ill-advised, so war was probably inevitable. Whether waiting was advisable was... questionable... but it was the decision that had been made.
Far worse though was the results of confronting the puritans over the behaviour that had required the execution and exile of so many troublemakers among them and attempting to pull out the philosophy had run into a major issue: the half-exiles. Or, more accurately, the prohibitions against slavery. In the debates more than a few of the orthodox priests had been put on the back foot by being called out for being hypocrites, how they proclaimed all sorts of actions that the puritans decried as impure were acceptable, but that the People weren't to participate in the enslavement or shipment of slaves because it spread spiritual taint. While it was obvious that the line of argument had been intended to silence their critics over the puritanical philosophies, it had instead sparked off a new conversation. Given all the things that the priests said were tolerable to the spirits, was slavery really that bad? History showed that the war over slavery in the Freehills with the Trelli had generally gone poorly, so if the gods truly were with them on the issue would they not have given the People greater success?
The king himself wasn't entirely sure, but it was definitely causing a schism within the priests, guilds, and patricians over what next. Some had actually been swayed over to some degree of the puritan point of view, while others were pretty clearly seeing piles of gold and silver if they could sway the priests to conceding that maybe the gods didn't mind that much. Either way, something seemed likely to break in the near future.
How did the debates go?
[] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
[] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
[] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
[] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
Also, pick four passive policies
[] [PP] Agriculture (+3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech/turn)
[] [PP] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[] [PP] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[] [PP] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)
[] [PP] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[] [PP] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
[] [PP] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)
[] [PP] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[] [PP] Innovation (Extra 2 innovation rolls each turn, -1 Wealth)
[] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
AN: Please remember to stay civil and keep the salt levels down
[X][Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X][React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X][Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X][PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
"So, as you can see, this is where the gods cut the rock for the Great River to pass through here. It is the hardest rock in the valley system, which makes it a pain to work with, but also the best place to drive our anchors, and one of the narrowest points in the entire region. The plan currently has us building a temporary dam just upstream to divert at least some of the water into one of the side canyons. That region is a bit calmer but the river is wider and the bed is made from gravel and mud rather than solid rock, so it won't hold in the long run once we get a reservoir built up behind it. Anyway, the hard rock here means that once we cut anchor points in, the anchors will fail before the rock. Now, there's a bunch of things that can fail other than the anchors, but those will be fairly significant in terms of overall strength. Still, the stronger we can make the pilings and anchors, the better," the Chief of Dam Construction explained to the king as part of the inspection tour.
Astutely seeing where this was going, the king asked, "You want a budget increase."
Nodding, the Chief said, "We can totally do this with just the resources already planned, but we can make it bigger and stronger with more cement and iron. The reservoir already planned will be big, but with a taller dam and some side dams to keep a few of the less desirable canyons from flooding, we can get the water to spill into this one canyon where we could really easily put a couple dozen mills with easy access to existing roads and the planned canal. If anyone ever wants to make it bigger, the only way to do that would be to build a whole new dam, so if we can build bigger and higher and stronger that would be saving our descendants a lot of hassle."
Modify megaproject?
[] [Dam] Keep as is
[] [Dam] Use stronger materials, keep as is (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs)
[] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
The king then sighed. Administratively things were going well - someone had misallocated funds for the palace expansion but when it had been caught a number of patricians had practically tripped over themselves to correct the issue with their own funds and contacts, resulting in an even bigger expansion than planned, so there was now in fact a second hall that was where the movers and shakers of the kingdom could gather to hash out their issues with each other before going straight for the king's hall, where important things still happened but it was harder to talk openly without causing issue. This also opened up the lower classes in Valleyhome to come in and talk more, also freeing up valuable time. It was all very nice, and highlighted all the other problems.
Like the Highlanders, who had responded to the inquiries as to what they were doing as 'Taking the lowlands'. While they hadn't made any direct threats to the People yet, it was pretty obvious that they were going to attack the Harmurri once they finished off the minor tribes, and then the People would have to either intervene or let the Harmurri fight it out. If the Highlanders won then they would probably turn their eyes towards the People, and if the Harmurri won they would undoubtedly be pissed at being abandoned by people they thought had their backs. Either way, inaction was ill-advised, so war was probably inevitable. Whether waiting was advisable was... questionable... but it was the decision that had been made.
Far worse though was the results of confronting the puritans over the behaviour that had required the execution and exile of so many troublemakers among them and attempting to pull out the philosophy had run into a major issue: the half-exiles. Or, more accurately, the prohibitions against slavery. In the debates more than a few of the orthodox priests had been put on the back foot by being called out for being hypocrites, how they proclaimed all sorts of actions that the puritans decried as impure were acceptable, but that the People weren't to participate in the enslavement or shipment of slaves because it spread spiritual taint. While it was obvious that the line of argument had been intended to silence their critics over the puritanical philosophies, it had instead sparked off a new conversation. Given all the things that the priests said were tolerable to the spirits, was slavery really that bad? History showed that the war over slavery in the Freehills with the Trelli had generally gone poorly, so if the gods truly were with them on the issue would they not have given the People greater success?
The king himself wasn't entirely sure, but it was definitely causing a schism within the priests, guilds, and patricians over what next. Some had actually been swayed over to some degree of the puritan point of view, while others were pretty clearly seeing piles of gold and silver if they could sway the priests to conceding that maybe the gods didn't mind that much. Either way, something seemed likely to break in the near future.
How did the debates go?
[] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
[] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
[] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
[] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
Also, pick four passive policies
[] [PP] Agriculture (+3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech/turn)
[] [PP] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[] [PP] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[] [PP] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)
[] [PP] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[] [PP] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
[] [PP] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)
[] [PP] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[] [PP] Innovation (Extra 2 innovation rolls each turn, -1 Wealth)
[] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
AN: Please remember to stay civil and keep the salt levels down
- Location
- Illinois
Ouch.
First glance makes me think we have to suffer the spite quests and wealth drain. The other options are just... ugh.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
All the rest suck dick, we can regain slavery ban later,
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
All the rest suck dick, we can regain slavery ban later,
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Wow. Only double the wealth costs? That's pretty damned good, considering. Time to address systematic injustice in our society!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
Dice vult
[X] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
Dice vult
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- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
This is going to hurt, but it's the direction we deliberately went in.
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
Updated vote here
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- Location
- United States
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
AN said the biggest dam was mostly dickwaving, and we will need our Wealth more than ever
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
All in.
Don't care about the Wealth Costs. If we are going to be a Good Civilization, this is how we do it.
No compromising on beliefs for material gain
AN said the biggest dam was mostly dickwaving, and we will need our Wealth more than ever
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
All in.
Don't care about the Wealth Costs. If we are going to be a Good Civilization, this is how we do it.
No compromising on beliefs for material gain
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- Location
- Illinois
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
- Location
- indeterminate, possibly non-existent
- Pronouns
- Any
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
Societies are made by making critical choices at certain moments.
We will not bend on this.
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
Societies are made by making critical choices at certain moments.
We will not bend on this.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Note that this includes all ongoing costs.
- Location
- United States
@Academia Nut , would addressing Half Exiles get rid of them entirely, or just start an event chain to get rid of them?
I'm assuming the former because of the doubled Wealth costs, but better safe than sorry.
The "spiritually impure" who are slaves in all but name, yeah
I'm assuming the former because of the doubled Wealth costs, but better safe than sorry.
Yep.
The "spiritually impure" who are slaves in all but name, yeah
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Remind me the half exiles are the people in our society who form a sort of untouchable caste, not really part of anywhere drifting around getting shit jobs and generally being shat on right?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It would modify the practice and make things more expensive and thus discourage the abusive use of making undesirables half-exiles, but the practice and its abuses wouldn't be completely eliminated.
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
I have to wonder, why double wealth costs? Isn't most half-exile work econ related?
NVM answered above
I have to wonder, why double wealth costs? Isn't most half-exile work econ related?
NVM answered above
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
Well I wanted to address the half exiles problem in a better way but let's fix it.
[X] [PP] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)x2
[X] [PP] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)x2
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
Well I wanted to address the half exiles problem in a better way but let's fix it.
[X] [PP] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)x2
[X] [PP] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)x2
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Still stunningly affordable. Doubling our ongoing costs puts us down to +2 wealth/turn. Which in turn we can address with trade, salterns, markets, overflow...lots of infrastructure policies basically. I'm very surprised we've reached the point in our society where this is even possible.
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
This should help with at least some of our ongoing issues. It's gonna make next turn's Guild actions a good deal more costly of course, and the added wealth costs mean we're likely to only get one progress on the Dam next turn.
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This is starting to sound remarkably like the start of the omake...