That is by no means definitive. It could just mean that we always have the option to start one, rather than the option being based on chance or circumstance.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Lowlands Canal is probably far easier to make than the Triangle one.
Based on what? Canals are typically huge projects that take generations, which is represented by lowish stat cost and high action cost. I see no reason why the lowlands canal would be significantly different in this regard.
In point of fact, both is fine - but we are going to have a much easier time starting the golden age if we stay on Balanced to start.Why not both?
We only need to keep stability that high for one turn to kick off the Golden Age; it isn't THAT hard, given that we can go up to 4 stability now. And once we do, it is perfectly fine to drop out of the Golden Age once we've made our purchase; we don't need to aim for keeping it going forever. It would be nice to have the GA last longer, but generally one or two turns are enough to buy some nice stuff.
You've missed the point of his post, which is that Tracks aren't really serving our purpose here, not whether or not it's easy to get a GA. If you're fine with both, and you mainly just want to get a Golden Age out of this, then that is mainly about using King Actions to raise our stab and is only tangentially related to this in that it'll compete for actions that could be put towards raising stab.
I'd much rather get the important Megas done than try for a GA at the same time. If we can get a GA easily during that time, then great, but I'm not interested in delaying Megas for them at this point.
Tracks do serve our purposes, which is getting Mega-projects done. As tracks continue after a Golden Age finishes, we'd do very well out of being in a GA for three are four turns, starting off a few Mega-Projects on their own tracks, and then just getting on with things while they advance in the background, allowing us to deal with the normal churn of events. Over the medium run, that would get more mega-projects done more safely than going on Mega-Project support.
As I posted before, this is by no means a given, and is only based on your interpretation. We have no idea if this is even possible.
Furthermore, getting a lot of projects done at the same time is not the same as getting the Dam and Canal done quickly. Getting four projects done in eight turns is not the same as getting two projects done in four. We have been told explicitly in game that we need the Canal done soon, and Tracks do not do that. Megaproject Support does.
Because Triangle Canal is a true canal between two rivers, while Lowland one is a series of small canals made to help with cataracts on one river. I expect it to be closer to the Stone Age Canal.
DO we have a particular reason to believe that it's not? As the only way to find out is to try, we might as well, as getting into a Golden Age would make lots of things much easier.
Compared to how long we've waited, eight turns is soon.
Beyond that, the surrounding world is becoming a dangerous place. I'd expect that we're going to see military conflict within a couple of turns, particularly as organised religion spreads further and further and makes it easier for states to mobilise for more total war. We're also going to see horse archery spread across the steppe, as well as the growth of Freehills and the Storm Ymaryn into Great Powers. That's not to mention the dubious loyalty of the western colonies. We have too many fires to fight at the same time to be able to mono-focus our civilization on one thing.
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- Location
- Austria
Hah.
We've worried about Lowlanders/Dead Priests/Xohyssiri/Thunder Horse for dozens of turns, and look where they are now.
And a big reason for our continued survival is megaprojects giving us plenty of power. Along with lucking out with iron.
Point is, world was always dangerous place, the only reason to worry more than before is full-power nomads. Which we are slowly addressing by accumulating cavalry, setting a new March and a couple of fuck-off-walled cities.
There's many IC reasons why this would not be possible, from insufficient ability to properly organize multiple projects in this way, to there not being enough available labour for starting additional "extra" projects from the populace and factions.
We've waited thousands of years for something we wanted for general reasons, but did not need. We need it now, so we're on a different time scale for urgency. Tracks do not address this new urgency, so I see no reason to gamble on this even working to achieve something different.
As for war, this discussion started with the caveat that we are not at war. If we are, then MP Support is less of an option. That's not really a part of this discussion though.
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Remember that the factions can mobilise enough otherwise inefficiently used resources to complete a Megaproject in a single turn. Presumably the Megaproject Tracks are a lesser form of the same thing.
A possibility, not a given. Once again, this doesn't accomplish the goal of finishing the Dam and Canal faster, so I don't see any reason to delay Megas further to pursue a test for a plan that doesn't do what we need.
Frankly I'm amused by the idea that even though we've been preparing for the dam for hundreds and hundreds of years we still have to make revisions at the absolute last minute. And that in a few more turns we'll probably have something that would have made the dam even better.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh, they're optional I think, we just want to.
I think you're overestimating our advancement rate on the second bit.
The Canal was said to have improved it's effectiveness thanks to a survey action.
Edit: That is, by word of our people, it helped us map where to build it faster. Not as a word of AN that it had an actual effect.
We were pretty much told we needed to do a survey here, though it's unclear if they did that as part of the megaproject action already. Still, a survey or mills action could be very useful here (assuming we could afford mills). I think we should wait a turn if at all possible. We're going to be very busy next turn, even if we don't get sucked into a war.
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Feature Creep
A manic clerk bursts into the room. "We're building the Dam!"
"Oh ha ha," says another clerk without looking up.
"No, seriously. The king just gave the order."
"Really? This is going to be awesome. We can pull up the old plans and get started immediately. It should be finished in no time!"
Six months later.
"If we use that new concrete stuff, we can double the height, allowing for substantially more canal work in the lowlands."
Many months after that.
"If we make a few adjustments here here and here, we can add a series of overlarge mills at the base, processing the grain and ore for the whole region."
Many years after that.
"If we reinforce this section with a steel core and extend the Dam to Redhills,, we can support fortifications along the top while doubling as a trade highway."
Several decades later...
"With the nomads invading, we should add catapults to the top and use it as a defensive hardpoint to break them."
Several centuries after that...
"Our designs have replaced the catapults with the new cannons coming out of Redhills. If we add a series of artillery towers in the points listed and extend the "Dam" to the spirit channel, we can extend our firing range effectively into the lowlands, preventing any invading force from pushing inwards."
Even more time passes.
"If we introduce a gradient of height along the length of the design, we can use the entire length of the Dam as an aqueduct for the entire lowlands region."
A millennia of Dam building later...
"If we expand the aqueduct plans and cut through this mountainous region here, we can create an aqueduct that is navigable by ship, acting as a super highway throughout our lands."
Soon, it is the year 2055, and the Ymaryn Dam is visible from space. The project is expected to be completed any month now, and always will be.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
I wonder what effect (if any) lords loyalty would have if we were vassalized?
- Location
- Illinois
We'd probably be required to be loyal so long as they fulfilled their duties to us.
Of course, we'd probably also get a bonus to rebelling if they don't satisfy the duties of a lord, so it could be good or bad depending on what civ would conquer us.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We also kind of have screwy views about the duties of a Lord, which is good in this scenario- would give us motive because few other polities are likely to know us well enough to conquer us the right way
- Location
- Illinois
"What, why are they rebelling over us demanding more wood? They have a ton of forests! They can spare some more wood!"
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
@Academia Nut speaking of getting conquered, do our priests have any inkling about the Great Ymaryn Deadman Switch?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Kill current ruling class and set up a new one?
Likely purge priests to prevent uprising?
Burn down all the trees if we try to rebel?
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Fey mood. It'll just make us more likely to rebel.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
except for the Storm People.