Point. "Faction shenanigans" still seems like a rather vague threat to use a GA innovation on though.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Point. "Faction shenanigans" still seems like a rather vague threat to use a GA innovation on though.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Any thoughts on what we want to do about helping the Harmurri rebuild? We have Martial if they need a donation, but can we spare Econ? Wealth? Tech?
I doubt they'll ask to become a vassal, but it's a plausible GA Diplomacy bonus; would we go for that?
I doubt they'll ask to become a vassal, but it's a plausible GA Diplomacy bonus; would we go for that?
Why would we want to though, when it keeps us in a Gilded Age and burns Stability? Six Wealth in return for three Econ and one Stability is a cheap price to pay at this point.
I'd happily pay six Wealth for the Stability given it costs no actions.
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ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
It's something to consider, but...GA innovations.
Also, since when do mercs cost Econ?
There might also be a nice synergy with an increased focus on ship building, especially if we also some trade missions. It could be a nice was to counter some of our more isolationistic tendencies though I suspect we currently can't really aford that.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They don't and never have. When we put them on the "main budget" we just add them to our martial.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Thought so.
We don't save 3 Econ for switching away from paying Mercenaries directly; direct payments cost nothing, other than the Martial tolerance they temporarily consume.
So what you are actually doing is paying 6 Wealth in return for 1 Stability.
Except that isn't what you are doing. Gilded Ages also give us Wealth, which means we are giving up another 3 Wealth of lost income, and more if we reactivate any cities. So now you are trading 9 Wealth for 1 Stability. That sounds like a pretty expensive Stability point.
But wait, there is more! In addition to the 9 Wealth you are giving up, you also lose the ability to take whatever GA purchases might be on offer. Such offers have traditionally included the following:
- Megaproject Track (6~10 resources)
- Value Slot/Upgrade (10 resources)
- Hero (12 Resources)
The result is that we are trading a single point of stability and a point or three of additional resources for an MP track, or a Value Slot, or an Value Upgrade, or a Hero unit. That seems like an extremely favorable trade.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Well, we have Diplomacy and Mysticism innovations available too, maybe there will be something there that a culture hero can work with.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Very conservative of you
. If we instead imagine that we start the border passage, we buy 5-8 main actions. *That* sounds like a good deal.MP tracks are just so good that at this point my go to approach to Megaprojects is literally "try to enter a Golden/Gilded age and go for the track". Though admittedly, our new faction system might throw a wrench in that, since we end up having much less control of our stats.Very conservative of you
That said, I'm not sure I get all the hubbub about the Boundary Passage Megaproject in particular. How is it supposed to help us, exactly?
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Well, I gather that it will give us good steppe access - for trade or war missions, perhaps? - without similarly empowering invading hordes. Nomads gonna nomad, we should be prepared.
But hey, starting the Great Library is awesome too. And the Triangle Canal has reasonable stat costs, but high action cost, so that's a strong candidate.
How so? We should get two mid-turn opportunities to expand econ.
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I can't see a good reason either, with the exception that it might lead to great advances in our road building technology. After all, we already have far more access to the steppes than we really want with the Stallions territory, the Spirit Channel and the passes in the Horse Mountains. And it would be much easier to trade with the nomads or wage war at them through those natural passages instead of maneuvering goods or armies over stairs and through tunnels.
So i guess the biggest advantage would be new technology that allows us to build roads through otherwise impassible territory. Might make Road actions cheaper or more effective as well.
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I think there's still a fair number of people who still hold the misunderstanding that it will help connect the Ymaryn Core and our eastern vassals?
Outside of that, it gives some increase in security and probably trading opportunities with nomads, which I don't think is particularly critical either. I'd rather put the effort into getting our walls up and building a watchtower network.
That is something to keep in mid for the Boundary Hills / Canal Megaprojects. Not so much a worry for the Library megaproject, which is the one I'd prefer myself...
Do we do enough trade with the Steppe to warrant it? Or enough War?
(Note that AFAIK most of our war against hordes is defensive, so getting good steppe access seems like it would be of distinctly limited value).
Eeeh, we're getting to the era where the Steppe nomads get the opportunity to be really good traders, and a secure trading post might encourage them to trade without giving them ideas?
I think there's some value there; I just don't think it's anything near critical.
I'd certainly put finally getting a culture hero above it.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
I'm on board with that.
(And if we can still fit in a megaproject, the library is a great choice.)
Especially now that we have paper.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well actually no. The boundary passage is intended to help us maneuver goods and people by Word of AN.
It helps with road building experience and tech.
Aids strategic and tactical fighting against the steppe which we can never have enough of.
And then trade with both the steppe and also the Lowlands-Steppe routes.
It may or may not lay ground work for a series of mountain forts as well which we can use to protect ourselves. This is supposition though.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
It gives us better response time, which is exactly what you need against nomads. It also gives us more fluidity when moving our forces around. Those are decent military benefits, but I wouldn't say they makes the megaproject worth it. Possible improvements to roads are also good, but that's a bit unreliable, even if it would be very useful.
The interconnectivity it provides, on the other hand, is fantastic. It makes trade, reinforcement, and administration much easier. If we can get Dam + Canal + Passage, we will have a much easier time holding on to our newfound empire.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
So, more watchtowers then?
They're so cheap, and full coverage really wouldn't take that long.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Academia Nut am i right in thinking that the boundary passage would inherently include some level of fortifications and supply depots? Since it'd be built through undeveloped rough terrain, and be expensive enough that some watchtowers and quarters would be cheap in comparison to the passage itself? So it would be "While being built, some warriors in watchtowers, and quarters to house the workers and their supplies", and then once completed the watchtowers stay, and the quarters serve as supply points along the passage to house and supply trade caravans and/or soldiers on their way to and from the steppe?
My personal preferences for using the Gilded Age are:
Diplo: Reinvite Khemetri (If unavailable, Diplo Genius)
Cultural: Social Value slot
Mysticism: Library Megaproject. (if unavailable, Evolve a Spiritual Value)
Not that it really matters since it seems like that's 2 updates out and there are likely going to be some unique opportunities here that weren't available in previous Golden Age innovation options, but these are my initial thoughts.
Going for the Reinvite over the Hero/Genius because it takes a lot of actions to make good use of a hero/genius, and I don't think we're going to have enough of those available.
I really want to lock Division of Power in, it's really nice both narratively and mechanically.
Getting the Library up and running should be amazingly awesome now that we have paper, and it's actually a fairly cheap megaproject in terms of stats thanks to our refunds while being quite expensive in terms of actions, which makes it perfect for a megaproject track.
Diplo: Reinvite Khemetri (If unavailable, Diplo Genius)
Cultural: Social Value slot
Mysticism: Library Megaproject. (if unavailable, Evolve a Spiritual Value)
Not that it really matters since it seems like that's 2 updates out and there are likely going to be some unique opportunities here that weren't available in previous Golden Age innovation options, but these are my initial thoughts.
Going for the Reinvite over the Hero/Genius because it takes a lot of actions to make good use of a hero/genius, and I don't think we're going to have enough of those available.
I really want to lock Division of Power in, it's really nice both narratively and mechanically.
Getting the Library up and running should be amazingly awesome now that we have paper, and it's actually a fairly cheap megaproject in terms of stats thanks to our refunds while being quite expensive in terms of actions, which makes it perfect for a megaproject track.