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Paths of Civilization

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Titus Stargazer said:
Or we get something like the pontifex/emperor combo going, where it's the office that's sacred.
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Actually that's already a thing. The position of king is already a sacred thing, because if you are king it means the gods blessed you with enough skills and luck to get there. You can see this directly in the updates where Magwyna has to deal with her son.
 
A lot is likely to depend on the situation vis a vis the Highland Kingdom after the upcoming offensive. If we need to occupy the whole thing while we rework their religion into something less problematic, that's going to put different constraints on us than if we have a revanchist power on our border that we need to keep penned up.
 
Academia Nut said:
"We cut off the bridge over the gorge, until someone builds a new one by controlling both sides, the route is now untraversable. There are multiple bridges like this, so if forced to fall back the enemy will likely find it easier to simply go around the whole province."
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The whole province? Would this megaproject make the central mountains more settle-able?
 
Not really. It only makes passing from the Steppes to the Lowlands easier, not introducing better quality anything to the region.
 
Academia Nut said:
"We cut off the bridge over the gorge, until someone builds a new one by controlling both sides, the route is now untraversable. There are multiple bridges like this, so if forced to fall back the enemy will likely find it easier to simply go around the whole province."
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I'm still having trouble seeing why we wouldn't want to just not build the bridge in the first place, and call it a day.
 
fictionfan said:
The ability to trade RA for stability would be nice.
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Not having a civil war and losing half our values would also be nice.

Mechanically, God-King is almost certainly incompatible with our values: Mythyladism would consider it ridiculous at best and blasphemous at worst, our Philosopher Kings would start asking inconvenient questions about how the 'ascension ritual' actually works, and Division of Power (not to mention self-interest) would make our factions strenuously oppose it. Even if we did manage to acquire the trait, we would lose our more useful values along the way. RA to Stability is a useful trait, but not particularly great, since we actually like having fairly high RA. It's not particularly worth it, especially given the cost attached.

Narratively, we'd be cooking up a gigantic lie from scratch and trying to force-feed it to our people. The problems attached to that are so obvious I don't think they need to be pointed out. Suffice it to say that at least Mythyladism would reject it, and since they have separate infrastructure, we'd almost certainly have a civil war. The results would be catastrophic, the gains would be negligible, and even ignoring all that, it'd be ethically questionable.

I'll pass on God-King, thanks.

PrimalShadow said:
I'm still having trouble seeing why we wouldn't want to just not build the bridge in the first place, and call it a day.
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Because then we'd have to go around the province too, which defeats the point of the Megaproject.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm still having trouble seeing why we wouldn't want to just not build the bridge in the first place, and call it a day.
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Because while those bridges are in place we can move around the nomads at our will instead of theirs, and because they are a means to feed the steppe trading which we know Mountain Horse partook in into the Lowlands much more easily.
 
Janadus said:
RA to Stability is a useful trait, but not particularly great, since we actually like having fairly high RA.
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Actually, we haven't been able to build needed temples for a while due to being capped on RA. If we could reduce our RA a bit that'd be amazing.

It's also known that the god-king value places a floor on your RA, where if below that threshold you start dying very rapidly. So yeah, with god-kings you need to keep your RA high, but you get some nice benefits for doing so.

source
 
After the dam/canal, we probably want to look at investing in the north and west. We've been focusing south and east for a very long time now, and we know that such unbalanced investment can create regional tensions. The only obvious one is the Triangle Canal for the north, although that's very expensive. If we did do it, the two new March options we have may benefit as well, depending on where they are. I can't see anything we can obviously do that demonstrates our commitment to our western provinces and colonies, now we've decided to have our King's marriage be all about the east as well.

The only real option I can see is multiple Supports or Influences, but it would take an awful lot of them to match the sheer number of actions and stats invested east and south between the wars with the Pure, the Forhurch, the Highland Kingdom, and the construction of the dam.

Edit: founding the northern marches probably would

BungieONI said:
Because while those bridges are in place we can move around the nomads at our will instead of theirs, and because they are a means to feed the steppe trading which we know Mountain Horse partook in into the Lowlands much more easily.
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Why? We can already simply travel up through the Memory of Spirits, which is an open pass through the mountains already. We'd only need another option if we lost control of that region.

I don't see what this gives us that we don't already have. We already have an easy path between the Lowlands and the Steppe. It's harder to control than the new one would be, but as we can't block the existing one, adding another pass, even an easy to defend one, simply gives us another place we need to garrison.
 
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BungieONI said:
Because while those bridges are in place we can move around the nomads at our will instead of theirs, and because they are a means to feed the steppe trading which we know Mountain Horse partook in into the Lowlands much more easily.
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I guess if we want to establish a trade network through the steppe without increasing our military exposure, this makes sense.

Personally, I'm not particularly enthused by using a megaproject to increase trade ties with people we don't know yet, but I guess we will see.
 
Alratan said:
Why? We can already simply travel up through the Memory of Spirits, which is an open pass through the mountains already. We'd only need another option if we lost control of that region.

I don't see what this gives us that we don't already have.
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It gives both the MoS and HH protected routes that they travel in, which is the lowland. Right now, the HH can't support the western side of the lowland, since it has to travel to the MoS. Similarly, the MoS will have a hard time supporting HH unless it can also travel safely to MoS.
 
notgreat said:
Actually, we haven't been able to build needed temples for a while due to being capped on RA. If we could reduce our RA a bit that'd be amazing.

It's also known that the god-king value places a floor on your RA, where if below that threshold you start dying very rapidly. So yeah, with god-kings you need to keep your RA high, but you get some nice benefits for doing so.

source
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Alternatively, we could build Academies to increase our RA tolerance.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I guess if we want to establish a trade network through the steppe without increasing our military exposure, this makes sense.

Personally, I'm not particularly enthused by using a megaproject to increase trade ties with people we don't know yet, but I guess we will see.
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Why not? Increasing trade ties with nomads make them less likely to raid us and we need the trade wealth anyway.
 
I'm a little confused, isn't our Forhuch March essentially at Spirit Channel? We still have an option to establish a March at Spirit Channel. Am I misplacing geography here?
 
Cytokinesis said:
I'm a little confused, isn't our Forhuch March essentially at Spirit Channel? We still have an option to establish a March at Spirit Channel. Am I misplacing geography here?
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You are, and you are also being confused by the action list not updating. The Memory of Spirits is sitting in the Spirit Channel, the Forhuch are a good ways further south east.
 
Cytokinesis said:
I'm a little confused, isn't our Forhuch March essentially at Spirit Channel? We still have an option to establish a March at Spirit Channel. Am I misplacing geography here?
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Yes, you're misplacing geography here.

Spirit Channel is where the Spirit Talkers and Thunder Speakers used to be. The Forhuch March is in Horse Mountain, east of Thunder Horse.
 
Alratan said:
Why? We can already simply travel up through the Memory of Spirits, which is an open pass through the mountains already. We'd only need another option if we lost control of that region.

I don't see what this gives us that we don't already have. We already have an easy path between the Lowlands and the Steppe. It's harder to control than the new one would be, but as we can't block the existing one, adding another pass, even an easy to defend one, simply gives us another place we need to garrison.
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Well for one, its a lot easier for nomads to cut off the Spirit Channel route to anything but other cavalry; its a hadrians-wall esque width, so any non-cav protected forces would have their supply lines destroyed. Additionally, if you look at the map, there's a massive amount of terrain between the western entrance to the step (over north of the core territories) and the eastern (spirit channel). If i understand the scale right, hundreds of miles of terrain even. So being able to have a pass through the boundary hills severely cuts the length of the steppe trip between our access to our lands while leaving nomads' access the same, and gives an entry way into the steppe that others wouldn't expect or be able to duplicate.
 
Alratan said:
Why? We can already simply travel up through the Memory of Spirits, which is an open pass through the mountains already. We'd only need another option if we lost control of that region.

I don't see what this gives us that we don't already have. We already have an easy path between the Lowlands and the Steppe. It's harder to control than the new one would be, but as we can't block the existing one, adding another pass, even an easy to defend one, simply gives us another place we need to garrison.
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The AN-stated benefit is that it gives us an unexpected direction to attack from. This is more clearly true if one considers the goldfish memory of the nomads.

This megaproject is perhaps not the best investment, unless the increased traffic through the region makes settling the surrounds more feasible, but the unique engineering it will force us to do may be of benefit.
 
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