Hoping that we'll have crushed everyone around us within a single turn and having dealt with the fallout from overmartial Mass Levy and still have the wealth and actions for a Main Warships seems overly optimistic. If the reward were something amazing, or supporting the Yeomen for temp martial was actually useful, then committing to this even while we are unsure if we'll have time to do it makes sense, but +1 Navy is simply a nice bonus, not mind blowing.

It's important to divorce More Warships from the quest bonus when discussing this. Even assuming we Goomba Stomp everyone around us immediately and still decide to More Warships, all ending this quest will have cost us is 1 Navy, and we'd have gained other benefits in its place. I just don't see the point in constraining our potential actions further for that.
Considering past evidence, a martial Genius can thoroughly smash a martial Hero. See Yenyna vs the Thunder Horse Hero. More than that our Avatar of War is going to have better stats than Yenyna, (I consider average to be the limit of the semi-stable nature AN is talking about), and the stats he's better in actually make him a better general than she was. Put that together with focusing on the Forhuch and I expect this to be a solid win against them and the nomads before the next main turn.

The HK with no hero are boned. It will probably take the mid turn after that to beat them. By this point we get to the next main turn, the one where we should have to take the trader action of warships. In the case that it turns out we don't have two main turns and instead must take warships on the next main turn we do have guild actions, actually finding an action slot is not an issue.

Now, the fallout from the mass levy is a problem. Something we can do though is to move the mercy out of main budget and start paying them again. That leaves us with 66 martial, further from that I expect the levies to die by the cartload. 10 or so martial is the ball park I am thinking of. Puts us at 56 by the time next main turn rolls around. It's a lot over, enough that there is going to be some kind of affect, but I don't expect it to take more than half our wealth cap.

Looking at our wealth income at that point and that tech is being converted to wealth, I am confident we can pay for it. And well, it eats martial which is a nice bonus.
 
Thunder Horse Negaverse: Once Again...

The first signs of unrest came when the Royal Trade Mission to the Forhuch returned back early. Rumors spread quickly of the displeasure of the foreign king, and the Governor's investigation into the matter brought forth even more unnerving clues. The offer to attend the Games had seemed to somehow insult the new king, with many of the traders whispering of the Forhuch king's weakening grasp on his own nation.

The shadow of greatness cast by his father and the People was indeed vast, and while far from incompetent, the king was still only an echo of his father's brilliance.

Worried at the failed mission, the Governor gave orders to quietly begin laying in stocks of food and arms, as well increasing the patrols of the border regions, under the guise of hunting bandits.

The raids started off small, groups of horsemen raiding isolated settlements at first, but even as patrols were increased to counter the raids, the raids increased in intensity. It became evident that a possible war was looming. Word was sent to the King, requesting assistance and guidance in dealing with the issues, but before the messenger could return from Valleyhome, another rider came from the east, from the Forhuch king.

The message was a straightforward declaration of war, to be commenced in half a turn of the moon. While this would be enough time to allow word to reach the capital, even if King sent his forces out immediately, support would be a long time coming. Word was sent back west, while the Governor worked to raise his forces as quickly as he was able.

When the Forhuch descended from the mountain passes, it was only this time of preparation as well as the Governor's own foresight that allowed resistance against the horde. The Forhuch attack in many ways resembled the Pure's murderous strike so many years ago, but for all that the Forhuch seemed to move as quick as lightning and to strike nearly as hard, their attacks were also slower.

Rather than destroy the settlements, the Forhuch spent much of their effort capturing and looting their way through the borderlands, as well as taking the chance to blood their warriors. This, combined with the prepared defenses and ready warriors of the Thunder Horse lands, had slowed their assault to a comparative crawl. Still faster than could be borne for long, but only a fraction of the speed of the Pure.

Still, the attacks had been slowed enough that the King's army arrived well before the damage had reached catastrophic levels. The War Chief who led the army was overjoyed to see that so many Thunder Horse warriors still lived, and quickly took command of the entire force.

The King had indeed sent his best. All three Banners, along with a large segment of the Sacred Orders. Most important of those orders, of course, were the Spiritbound. While they numbered far less than their Forhuch counterparts, their presence would still allow for a far more flexible strategy against the invaders.

Even better came news of the royal decree calling forth the levies. Numbers that many could not even begin to imagine were bandied about by the War Chief. The idea of an army as numerous than the grains of sand upon a beach was greatly uplifting to many, a badly needed bolster to the flagging morale of the Thunder Horse people. Though that news was somewhat balanced out by word of more nomad attacks on the Memory of Spirits and Heaven's Hawks.

With the arrival of the King's army, the fighting began in earnest. The results were... mixed. The Blood Rain Banner would quickly suffer a devastating defeat, their leadership tricked by the Forhuch's use of captives. The War Chief, on the other hand, proved himself to be a true genius at war, as he used his forces to quickly crush a similar attack, as well as managing to continually thwart attacks on many other settlements. It was not long before the Forhuch would choose to retreat merely upon seeing his banner present, rather than risk a confrontation.

Of course, even for all his genius, the War Chief was unlikely to be able to decisively defeat the Forhuch with what he had now. Without a way to pin them, he could only strike when an opportunity presented itself.

Your Governor has proven himself surprisingly adept at handling what should have been an utter disaster. Choose a bonus for him:

[] [Hero] Heroic Admin, Good Martial, Mediocre Diplomacy
[] [Hero] Excellent Admin, Excellent Martial, Excellent Diplomacy
[] [Hero] Good Admin, Heroic Martial, Fair Diplomacy

Choose Reaction:

[] [Reaction] Expand Econ (Sec Expand Econ x2)
[] [Reaction] Raise Army (Main Raise Army)
[] [Reaction] Build Roads (Main Build Roads)
[] [Reaction] Another War Mission (Main War Mission)
IS ADOWABLE!

I LOVES IT!

 
Doing Support Sacred Orders + Main More Warships is almost impossible on the same turn. Even as a Sec action, SSO costs 12 Wealth, and More Warships costs 10 as a Main. Assuming we're at Max Wealth, we'd have 2 Wealth to spare for anything else we wanted to do.
What makes you think we will need a Support Sacred Order?

They would not be available that turn. If you want Spiritbonded next turn you need to vote for it now. Trying to push that next turn is way too late.

If we are end up in a three turn war, something would have seriously gone wrong with our Martial Genius.

You also forget that we have 8 Wealth Income a turn and can use our leftover Guild Projects to raise even more.
In the immediate coming turn? Almost certainly impossible due to there being way more important stuff to do with our wealth.

In the turn after that? Probably not possible. Even assuming we're not still at war (which seems too optimistic to me), we'll have to deal with the fallout of overmartial, government reform fallout, rebuilding our econ and dealing with the fallout of winning a three front war. These are not small obstacles when stacked together.

Just seems like an unnecessary complication to juggle for 1 Naval.
Yes we need to do stuff but covering our Western Holdings is also very important if we do not want to open up yet another front.

The 'difficulty' in fitting it in? One Guild project slot. That we cannot use to solve the govenrment fall out, the overmartial fallout, or the winning fallout.

You really need to stop underplaying the 'one' Navy. It is a boost from 1 Navy to 4 Navy when each point costs 6 Wealth. We would be getting some much needed force and saving 8 Wealth to do so.
 
Thunder Horse Negaverse: Once Again...

The first signs of unrest came when the Royal Trade Mission to the Forhuch returned back early. Rumors spread quickly of the displeasure of the foreign king, and the Governor's investigation into the matter brought forth even more unnerving clues. The offer to attend the Games had seemed to somehow insult the new king, with many of the traders whispering of the Forhuch king's weakening grasp on his own nation.

The shadow of greatness cast by his father and the People was indeed vast, and while far from incompetent, the king was still only an echo of his father's brilliance.

Worried at the failed mission, the Governor gave orders to quietly begin laying in stocks of food and arms, as well increasing the patrols of the border regions, under the guise of hunting bandits.

The raids started off small, groups of horsemen raiding isolated settlements at first, but even as patrols were increased to counter the raids, the raids increased in intensity. It became evident that a possible war was looming. Word was sent to the King, requesting assistance and guidance in dealing with the issues, but before the messenger could return from Valleyhome, another rider came from the east, from the Forhuch king.

The message was a straightforward declaration of war, to be commenced in half a turn of the moon. While this would be enough time to allow word to reach the capital, even if King sent his forces out immediately, support would be a long time coming. Word was sent back west, while the Governor worked to raise his forces as quickly as he was able.

When the Forhuch descended from the mountain passes, it was only this time of preparation as well as the Governor's own foresight that allowed resistance against the horde. The Forhuch attack in many ways resembled the Pure's murderous strike so many years ago, but for all that the Forhuch seemed to move as quick as lightning and to strike nearly as hard, their attacks were also slower.

Rather than destroy the settlements, the Forhuch spent much of their effort capturing and looting their way through the borderlands, as well as taking the chance to blood their warriors. This, combined with the prepared defenses and ready warriors of the Thunder Horse lands, had slowed their assault to a comparative crawl. Still faster than could be borne for long, but only a fraction of the speed of the Pure.

Still, the attacks had been slowed enough that the King's army arrived well before the damage had reached catastrophic levels. The War Chief who led the army was overjoyed to see that so many Thunder Horse warriors still lived, and quickly took command of the entire force.

The King had indeed sent his best. All three Banners, along with a large segment of the Sacred Orders. Most important of those orders, of course, were the Spiritbound. While they numbered far less than their Forhuch counterparts, their presence would still allow for a far more flexible strategy against the invaders.

Even better came news of the royal decree calling forth the levies. Numbers that many could not even begin to imagine were bandied about by the War Chief. The idea of an army as numerous than the grains of sand upon a beach was greatly uplifting to many, a badly needed bolster to the flagging morale of the Thunder Horse people. Though that news was somewhat balanced out by word of more nomad attacks on the Memory of Spirits and Heaven's Hawks.

With the arrival of the King's army, the fighting began in earnest. The results were... mixed. The Blood Rain Banner would quickly suffer a devastating defeat, their leadership tricked by the Forhuch's use of captives. The War Chief, on the other hand, proved himself to be a true genius at war, as he used his forces to quickly crush a similar attack, as well as managing to continually thwart attacks on many other settlements. It was not long before the Forhuch would choose to retreat merely upon seeing his banner present, rather than risk a confrontation.

Of course, even for all his genius, the War Chief was unlikely to be able to decisively defeat the Forhuch with what he had now. Without a way to pin them, he could only strike when an opportunity presented itself.

Your Governor has proven himself surprisingly adept at handling what should have been an utter disaster. Choose a bonus for him:

[] [Hero] Heroic Admin, Good Martial, Mediocre Diplomacy
[] [Hero] Excellent Admin, Excellent Martial, Excellent Diplomacy
[] [Hero] Good Admin, Heroic Martial, Fair Diplomacy

Choose Reaction:

[] [Reaction] Expand Econ (Sec Expand Econ x2)
[] [Reaction] Raise Army (Main Raise Army)
[] [Reaction] Build Roads (Main Build Roads)
[] [Reaction] Another War Mission (Main War Mission)
Yay, I was in a negaverse!

I have hit one of the illustrious quester milestones.
 
What makes you think we will need a Support Sacred Order?

They would not be available that turn. If you want Spiritbonded next turn you need to vote for it now. Trying to push that next turn is way too late.

If we are end up in a three turn war, something would have seriously gone wrong with our Martial Genius.

You also forget that we have 8 Wealth Income a turn and can use our leftover Guild Projects to raise even more.
The thread is almost certainly going to go for Support Sacred Orders next turn. I'm personally ambivalent about it because it's horrifically expensive, but I can see the appeal. Light cavalry is going to need replacing, and given the sheer scale of the carnage involved, Carrion Eaters will be tremendously helpful.

The main problem is not the income, it's that we're being crushed between our stat cap and our stat floor. Let's assume that we spend literally no other Wealth on that turn. 24 is our max, so our costs, which come before income, would go like this:

24 - 12 (Sec Sacred Orders) - 10 (Main More Warships) - 2 (Main Great Dam) = 0 Wealth

Again, to avoid hitting negative Wealth and the ensuing Stability hits, we would need to spend no other Wealth.

This is one of the hidden costs to Wealth doubling I mentioned– we're going to be unable to jam a bunch of Wealth-expensive actions together in the same turn, because our Wealth simply doesn't have a high enough cap.
 
???

With bad hygiene but not necessarily with rot.

If the wood resists insects and thus rot, we are more than likely to pick it.
As in, we would associate nice cinnamon wood containers with trying to mask the smell of lower quality food stored in it(which was true, heavy use of spices often covered up less fresh foods)
I am thoroughly confused here. I agree with you entirely, but I'm not sure what you thought I was trying to say.

edit:
Point of order: the trader quest without support would end next midturn (assuming that we are currently in this turn's midturn). Going for another support would mean that the quest would end in two turns time rather than one.
Yes, but still, Wealth will be tight as hell and we got a lot of shit on our plate. Better to reroll when we need to replenish pony
Not least of which is the assumption that the Genius will "wreck face in a single phase", which is optimistic, to put it lightly.

Been there seen that. Our last Martial Genius destroyed two Martial Heroes in a single phase.

Reasonable to expect this one can do similarly.
 
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As in, we would associate nice cinnamon wood containers with trying to mask the smell of lower quality food stored in it(which was true, heavy use of spices often covered up less fresh foods)
But heavy use of fragrant wood? Especially not-fragrant-enough-to-be-a-great-spice, insecticide wood?

Doubtful.
 
Considering past evidence, a martial Genius can thoroughly smash a martial Hero. See Yenyna vs the Thunder Horse Hero. More than that our Avatar of War is going to have better stats than Yenyna, (I consider average to be the limit of the semi-stable nature AN is talking about), and the stats he's better in actually make him a better general than she was. Put that together with focusing on the Forhuch and I expect this to be a solid win against them and the nomads before the next main turn.

The HK with no hero are boned. It will probably take the mid turn after that to beat them. By this point we get to the next main turn, the one where we should have to take the trader action of warships. In the case that it turns out we don't have two main turns and instead must take warships on the next main turn we do have guild actions, actually finding an action slot is not an issue.

Now, the fallout from the mass levy is a problem. Something we can do though is to move the mercy out of main budget and start paying them again. That leaves us with 66 martial, further from that I expect the levies to die by the cartload. 10 or so martial is the ball park I am thinking of. Puts us at 56 by the time next main turn rolls around. It's a lot over, enough that there is going to be some kind of affect, but I don't expect it to take more than half our wealth cap.

Looking at our wealth income at that point and that tech is being converted to wealth, I am confident we can pay for it. And well, it eats martial which is a nice bonus.

Even if the new general is marginally better than Yenyna, that doesn't mean we'll perform better. In the last war, we had a substantial tech lead with iron, tactics and mercs, whereas this time we're at rough technological parity for mass troops, while they have a substantial lead on us in the advanced stat and innovations related to it. I do not expect them be nearly as much of a pushover as you seem to.

To a lesser extent, I expect the same of the HK. They basically have spent centuries building walls and defensive hard points, and according to AN that's what they've done with their new holdings. I don't expect them to be a minor speed bump unless we can force a quick white peace. Then we still have to deal with the nomads.

According to AN, dropping the Mercs out of the main budget won't have much effect due to the absurd degree we're over cap:
Given the amount you are over, not particularly.

I don't expect us to get off lightly for this. Combined with everything else we'll need to get done, it makes More Warships harder to do. Is it possible that we'll be able to do it? Sure. I just don't think it's likely, or wouldn't have additional costs for doing at the expense of something else. I'm completely fine sacrificing 1 Navy in the event we do manage to pull this off in return for not gambling on it.

You really need to stop underplaying the 'one' Navy. It is a boost from 1 Navy to 4 Navy when each point costs 6 Wealth. We would be getting some much needed force and saving 8 Wealth to do so.
I'm describing it exactly how it is. One free Navy. A nice bonus, but not the end of the world to give up, and we'll probably still want more Navy long term with or without it. If we had nothing else going on, or there was no benefit for the other Trade option, or we actually needed the temp martial, then we would totally go for it. That is not the case though.
 
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The thread is almost certainly going to go for Support Sacred Orders next turn. I'm personally ambivalent about it because it's horrifically expensive, but I can see the appeal. Light cavalry is going to need replacing, and given the sheer scale of the carnage involved, Carrion Eaters will be tremendously helpful.

The main problem is not the income, it's that we're being crushed between our stat cap and our stat floor. Let's assume that we spend literally no other Wealth on that turn. 24 is our max, so our costs, which come before income, would go like this:

24 - 12 (Sec Sacred Orders) - 10 (Main More Warships) - 2 (Main Great Dam) = 0 Wealth

Again, to avoid hitting negative Wealth and the ensuing Stability hits, we would need to spend no other Wealth.

This is one of the hidden costs to Wealth doubling I mentioned– we're going to be unable to jam a bunch of Wealth-expensive actions together in the same turn, because our Wealth simply doesn't have a high enough cap.
Except that is not set in stone.

As much as we may want more Light Cavalry, we are in the same position our Temples are with RA.

Yes it would be nice, but we currently have too high stats to consider it.

I certainly do not see Spiritbound set in stone. Not until we address the martial narrative matters.
 
[X] [Hero] The War Chief is an Avatar of War (Genius Martial, at least semi-stable Diplo and Admin)

Genius, especially a semi stable one is worth more than even 2 Heroes. Remember Yenyna and how absolutely rediculously she was. Semi stable diplo and admin means overarching strategy for all wars, so...

[X] [Target] Focus everything on the Forhuch, hold the line against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)

Edit: I've been convinced.

[X] [React] Sec Proclaim Glory

We desperately need that +1 stability and legitimacy to keep things rolling back home. With that overmaxed Levy, low stability and legitimacy is extremely dangerous.

[X] [Kick] No further kick

We can't afford the extra kick.
 
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On the whole Light Cavalry thing... presumably, the loser is going to give us some tribute (if we win), I wonder what the semi-nomads have in relative abundance we'd love to have, far more than material wealth or land. Hmmm, it's on the tip of my tongue.
 
It'd cut popularity is all.
The export market on the other hand...
I simply don't agree that people would assume it's covering up rot, especially in the long term we run in.

But yes, the export market would quite enjoy it, the cedars we probably grow, and sandalwood if we can get it or have it.

I doubt rare woods will show up on our bulk goods list, however.
 
On the whole Light Cavalry thing... presumably, the loser is going to give us some tribute (if we win), I wonder what the semi-nomads have in relative abundance we'd love to have, far more than material wealth or land. Hmmm, it's on the tip of my tongue.
If you're talking about horses, we've got those, and there's a decent chance ours are better. It's actually training people to effectively ride said horses that is the problem.
 
[X] [Hero] Both the War Chief and the Governor of MoS are Heroic Martial
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] No
[X] [React] Sec Restore Order
[X] [Kick] No further kick

@Academia Nut, can't we have an Ymaryn version of the French Foreign Legion here? To get volunteers from Khemet, Freehills, the Storm Ymaryn and everyone around the Yllython Sea?

Hell, there's a heroic leader in the Tin Tribes resisting Freehills, right? If we mediate between Freehills and the Tin tribes, can't we have people from both of them helping us? Egads, we might even have the help of the heroic leader of the Tin tribes and that of Freehills.

4 heroes vs. One. Take that Forhuch!
 
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