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Paths of Civilization

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DocMatoi said:
Ok we can all agree that colonialism is very bad, right? We didn't lose that knowledge somewhere in the last 100 years?
Spreading smallpox on accident because we're all immune carriers sounds like a Thing I Do Not Want To Do(tm)
Same for conquering anybody else, ever.
My inner historian wants all those cultures to stay extant and not die from the greed of some gaggle of future Ymaryn Patricians
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So, you're saying we should let those cultures be undeveloped and not have any contact because we'll spread smallpox and other deadly disease?

You do realize that some other culture will eventually contact them sooner or later, probably one of the negaverse who knew that there are riches to be had in the not!America?

It's not even about conquest or colonization, just exploring and making contact.
 
Considering that Tormulyna has been chilling out at the Palace helping out the King, I wonder how much bullshit two Geniuses working together can make?
 
Kiba said:
So, you're saying we should let those cultures be undeveloped and not have any contact because we'll spread smallpox and other deadly disease?

You do realize that some other culture will eventually contact them sooner or later, probably one of the negaverse who knew that there are riches to be had in the not!America?
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Not if we take over the whole 'old world'.
:whistle:
 
Ok, I have to admit that I'm hyped to see what a Genius admin can do. I'm personally hoping he pulls a post Qin Wars of Unification thing where he does a whole bunch of standardizing and makes the various provinces vassals extremely well integrated.
 
I am hoping that our genius admin dedicates at least one of the policies towards vassal support. For the second policy, my preferences would go

1) Vassal Support
2) Defense
3) Infrastructure
4) Innovation
 
Citino said:
As weird as it seems, Conquest was an actually thing that people considered lawful under the feudal system of Europe. I only know a little bit about it myself, but you could actually go and conquer a neighbor under a feudal system, send in your paperwork to the king, and boom. The land and everything in it is now yours.
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Ok i asked a guy who studied this and he flipped out. here's what he had to say:
"As weird as it seems, Conquest was an actually thing that people considered lawful under the feudal system of Europe. "
STOP
STOP
RIGHT
THERE
(CRIMINAL SCUM)
NO THIS IS NOT
THIS IS NOT HOW IT WORKED AT ALL
its just
horrendously wrong
i studied this
fucking god its so
its so stupid
Like, the problem here is that there is no such thing as 'medieval law' in the first place
Like, let's take Duchy A and Duchy B
Say we're in the high medieval around the 1400s
Duchy A performs an attack on Duchy B and eats up Duchy B entirely
Now, their Liege has a problem
Because he has to consider whether he prefers his vassals divided but weaker individually or a single strong duchy beneath him
He also has to consider whether he can marshal the military might to do something about this
He has to check with the church to see what they have to say
He also has to think about what he actually thinks about the Duke of Duchy A
Furthermore we have to understand that the medieval idea of a conquest was totally different from what we think
In the medieval, conquest tended to mean 'vassalization'
You hit him in the face until you make him your vassal
This isn't at all how conquest looks today
The medieval mindset of war was heavily influenced by the greco-roman ideas of casus belli and bellum iustum
I.e. the cause of war and just warfare
Aquinas did in fact write about this subject
Indeed, he writes in Summa Theologica that a just war must be performed:
a): for a good and just purpose rather than wealth or power
b): by a properly instituted authority such as the state
c): with the goal of peace in mind
Now of course, not all warfare was conducted with these three goals - in fact, very little probably was
But the point is that you wouldn't put in 'paperwork' to your Liege
it wasn't considered 'lawful'
You needed a claim to the land. Like, side A would show this dusty 200 year old treaty, while side B would show this handy genealogy chart and the appropriate succession rules.
And of course if they have different Lieges, shit would get even more complicated
that is why there so many wars of succession in the 17th and 18th century. They all centred around claims by diverging interpretations of succession

but no you couldn't just go and conquer a place. right of conquest was not a thing!

and god the argument that the spanish conquest was legal is just
mind-boggling in it's inanity
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Citino said:
Yay, no bad decisions on our part to screw things up!
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I find that unlikely. The Genius will optimize according to his or her own goals, which are sometimes but not always compatible with ours. Hopefully they won't be a traditionalist who makes it their goal to crush the Golden Age.

Also, we'll still have our own decisions to make. This round I'm hoping for a materials upgrade.
 
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SpeckofStardust said:
Genocides went on long before the age of Colonialism, went on during the age, and happened after the age.
Saying that trying to expand via Colonialization should not be done because it :turian:'will':turian: cause genocide is foolish.
As for the whole 'but we'll be destroying cultures' as a reason not to do it, then I will point out that no one seems as that resistant to destroying the cultures of people we have already have a part of our empire.
The double standards in this thread are just sickening.
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Can you *please not* try to get this thread locked by advocating genocide the way you did over in WSiA?
 
Glassware said:
I find that unlikely. The Genius will optimize according to his or her own goals, which are sometimes but not always compatible with ours. Hopefully they won't be a traditionalist who makes it their goal to crush the Golden Age.

Also, we'll still have our own decisions to make. This round I'm hoping for a materials upgrade.
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I'm telling you, a smart clerk will make decisions that lead to streamlining the whole administrative process: Including, spreading literacy (save time normally spent reading documents out loud to people who can't read) and teaching the law (saves time normally spent explaining the law to people who don't know it)
 
I never met people who would advocate for the British Empire, colonialism and genocide until this thread. I weep for humanity.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
Genocides went on long before the age of Colonialism, went on during the age, and happened after the age.
Saying that trying to expand via Colonialization should not be done because it :turian:'will':turian: cause genocide is foolish.
As for the whole 'but we'll be destroying cultures' as a reason not to do it, then I will point out that no one seems as that resistant to destroying the cultures of people we have already have a part of our empire.
The double standards in this thread are just sickening.
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How about no?
 
ETA50M said:
I never met people who would advocate for the British Empire, colonialism and genocide until this thread. I weep for humanity.
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Just in case you didn't see it earlier, AN came by and asked us to stop the European Colonialism discussion.
I would appreciate it if you would not start it back up.

Edit: ninja'd by the man himself.
 
Glassware said:
I find that unlikely. The Genius will optimize according to his or her own goals, which are sometimes but not always compatible with ours. Hopefully they won't be a traditionalist who makes it their goal to crush the Golden Age.

Also, we'll still have our own decisions to make. This round I'm hoping for a materials upgrade.
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If we're lucky we might roll mysticism and tech and get a combined option; alchemy + artisans seems like the best way to get steel, after all. Alternately, we might just roll multiple separate innovations for diff stats and get to choose which one(s) we want...
 
I am all for getting a series of smaller innovations rather than spending the totality of one stat in one turn just to see what we get for a Golden Age legacy.
 
DocMatoi said:
Ok i asked a guy who studied this and he flipped out. here's what he had to say:
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Conquest was similar to modern conception in regards to a war against heathens however. As for Nomadic and Tribal cultures of the era conquest was also similar to modern conception. The near and far east had the same concern for casus belli as the Europeans, but thier definition was much broader and unrestrained by a church organisation, and still considered heathens fair game.
 
DocMatoi said:
I'm telling you, a smart clerk will make decisions that lead to streamlining the whole administrative process: Including, spreading literacy (save time normally spent reading documents out loud to people who can't read) and teaching the law (saves time normally spent explaining the law to people who don't know it)
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I find our increasing reliance on heroes and geniuses really worrying, honestly, because as we've seen building a system for exceptional leaders means that mediocrity has even more consequences. We can't guarantee we'll always have them, after all...
 
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