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Paths of Civilization

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Ok we can all agree that colonialism is very bad, right? We didn't lose that knowledge somewhere in the last 100 years?
Spreading smallpox on accident because we're all immune carriers sounds like a Thing I Do Not Want To Do(tm)
Same for conquering anybody else, ever.
My inner historian wants all those cultures to stay extant and not die from the greed of some gaggle of future Ymaryn Patricians
 
DocMatoi said:
Ok we can all agree that colonialism is very bad, right? We didn't lose that knowledge somewhere in the last 100 years?
Spreading smallpox on accident because we're all immune carriers sounds like a Thing I Do Not Want To Do(tm)
Same for conquering anybody else, ever.
My inner historian wants all those cultures to stay extant and not die from the greed of some gaggle of future Ymaryn Patricians
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Most cultures in this time period will go extinct or morph to the point that they are basically unrecognizable, if only because most nations don't have libraries to properly record their culture and important figures within it.
 
I don't understand why people are trying to justify colonialism with "it technically wasn't illegal at the time".
 
Umi-san said:
Edit: I.e., in those polities where conquest was a "recognized law" it was predicated upon a lack of recognition of the rights of foreigners. At least in a discussion taking place in the current modern context where "foreigners have rights" is a generally accepted concept, "theft" is an appropriate term for conquest.
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So you're saying a civ from 500+ years ago should be held to modern standards of law? o_O

That's... stretching it quite a bit. By your logic, I could say that the current world is corrupt and decadent beyond belief because they don't adhere to morality laws of the 18th century.

You literally have to take into account the time period to make judgements in history, as there is no way you can apply modern understandings of morality or law to past civilizations. Laws grow and change for a reason after all, and many laws just don't make sense as a nation grows beyond the need for them.
 
DocMatoi said:
Ok we can all agree that colonialism is very bad, right? We didn't lose that knowledge somewhere in the last 100 years?
Spreading smallpox on accident because we're all immune carriers sounds like a Thing I Do Not Want To Do(tm)
Same for conquering anybody else, ever.
My inner historian wants all those cultures to stay extant and not die from the greed of some gaggle of future Ymaryn Patricians
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


My That's rich, "the foreigners should have thier culture intact, but the people we have dominion over should have thier culture exterminated and replaced by an exact copy of Valleyhome" ...


And define "bad"
 
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Mortis said:
I don't understand why people are trying to justify colonialism with "it technically wasn't illegal at the time".
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Less justification, and more explaining why the Europeans at the time didn't consider such things a big deal. They'd been doing the same things to themselves for centuries by that point, so why would it be that different when applied to someone else?

Of course, in retrospect, we can see why their views were problematic, but hindsight and technological innovations can be fun like that.

DocMatoi said:
Spreading smallpox on accident because we're all immune carriers sounds like a Thing I Do Not Want To Do(tm)
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You like the Ymaryn having traders, yes?

If so, I have some bad news for you...
 
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Raichu1972 said:
Most cultures in this time period will go extinct or morph to the point that they are basically unrecognizable, if only because most nations don't have libraries to properly record their culture and important figures within it.
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Ok, fine. But let them do that on their own, or at least where its not OUR fault.
SpeckofStardust said:
Then kill the Ymaryn culture, in the end cultures tend to fight, and the stronger one kills the weaker one your not changing anything with only killing off our noble class.
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What? Wherte did I advocate killing the nobles? I mean, I DO advocate that, but not in this argument. I'm advocating "Not practicing colonialism and/or not conquering native populations." Not sure how your brain twisted that to "kill the nobles."
 
Citino said:
So you're saying a civ from 500+ years ago should be held to modern standards of law? o_O
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we are not using the internet of 500+ years ago to hold this discussion, so yes

maximillian said:
That's rich, the foreigners should have thier culture intact, but the people we have dominion over should have thier culture exterminated and replaced by an exact copy of Valleyhome...


And define "bad"
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internal unity is pleasant
slavery and secession is bad
 
Something came up, not sure if there will be an update tonight. Your Genius Admin is definitely taking over next turn though. Also, can we cool it with the biting at each other over European colonialism? It was a series of genocides (sometimes accidental, sometimes very intentional) across the globe and arguing about definitions is kind of glossing over how bad things could be.
 
Umi-san said:
we are not using the internet of 500+ years ago to hold this discussion, so yes
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Ah, in that case, you are correct. It was theft.

Edit: To be more specific, I was arguing that people at that time would not consider the conquests theft. If we are using our modern view, however, the Spanish managed to steal an insane amount, to the point where it is actually kinda impressive.
 
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DocMatoi said:
Ok, fine. But let them do that on their own, or at least where its not OUR fault.

What? Wherte did I advocate killing the nobles? I mean, I DO advocate that, but not in this argument. I'm advocating "Not practicing colonialism and/or not conquering native populations." Not sure how your brain twisted that to "kill the nobles."
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If you don't want for us to reduce the cultures of our conquered subordinates, does that mean that you're against using Influence Subordinate on our vassals?
 
Academia Nut said:
Something came up, not sure if there will be an update tonight. Your Genius Admin is definitely taking over next turn though. Also, can we cool it with the biting at each other over European colonialism? It was a series of genocides (sometimes accidental, sometimes very intentional) across the globe and arguing about definitions is kind of glossing over how bad things could be.
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Hopefully it's not anything bad. Could we maybe get a list of the new actions we could have taken, since we're not getting a look at the full list anytime soon?
 
Academia Nut said:
Something came up, not sure if there will be an update tonight. Your Genius Admin is definitely taking over next turn though. Also, can we cool it with the biting at each other over European colonialism? It was a series of genocides (sometimes accidental, sometimes very intentional) across the globe and arguing about definitions is kind of glossing over how bad things could be.
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Well, if the Admin Genius can take over, that should mean we have a stable Genius for once.
 
Warning For Marginal Behavior
Academia Nut said:
across the globe and arguing about definitions is kind of glossing over how bad things could be.
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Genocides went on long before the age of Colonialism, went on during the age, and happened after the age.
Saying that trying to expand via Colonialization should not be done because it :turian:'will':turian: cause genocide is foolish.
As for the whole 'but we'll be destroying cultures' as a reason not to do it, then I will point out that no one seems as that resistant to destroying the cultures of people we have already have a part of our empire.
The double standards in this thread are just sickening.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Well, if the Admin Genius can take over, that should mean we have a stable Genius for once.
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I mean, taking over is compatible with them being a megalomaniac, or power hungry, or the like... remember that Rulwyna, one of if not our best overall stat hero, and a very effective king in taking control, would have been entirely willing to overthrow the government to get to power, if we'd chosen different things for her
 
SpeckofStardust said:
Genocides went on long before the age of Colonialism, went on during the age, and happened after the age.
Saying that trying to expand via Colonialization should not be done because it :turian:'will':turian: cause genocide is foolish.
As for the whole 'but we'll be destroying cultures' as a reason not to do it, then I will point out that no one seems as that resistant to destroying the cultures of people we have already have a part of our empire.
The double standards in this thread are just sickening.
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Eh, we should probably drop it. AN did ask us to.
 
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