- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Depends on the sort of vote. In most cases, it's going to be the most popular option that wins and it won't need to have 50%.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Illinois
Ah, you'd still only need the most votes out of all the choice. It may have some narrative effects if the votes are spread out enough though.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I am entirely ambivalent and this is something we won't see for at least another thousand years and however many turns. Keep in mind, though, it is likely not the Australia of IRL. Climate wise or location.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
*looks at California where people were forced to build monasteries, had their culture and freedom taken from them, had bounties placed on their heads for not being in a monastery or just being "native american", etc.*
*looks at South America where people traded gold and their bodies to conquistadors, where Spanish has become the dominant language, where the upper class was killed to the one and their positions replaced by white spaniards*
*assumes that, at some point, at least one spanish conquistador has indeed killed/raped/stolen from at least one native*
tldr: cannot disagree more, and even if I agreed with your definition you are mistaken.
- Location
- United States
I guess there's a small amount of leeway dependant on the circumstances of the conquest, but conquering a people in the Bronze/Iron age usually involved killing their warriors, pillaging their villages, and generally enslaving or treating the conquered population like shit.
A conquest can just be "We killed your leaders, give us a tithe and we'll leave you alone", but I would imagine the directly conquering land instead of just making it a vassal would be a bit more personal.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's been talked about, and we actually get +20 net stats overall right now, once the 2 free cities are up:
+6 Diplo (1 King of the Hill, 1 Mature Tinriver Trade Post, 4 International Games)
-2 Econ (1 Golden age, -3 True Cities)
+10 Wealth (as you said)
+4 Culture (2 Games/true cities, 2 Free Cities)
+2 Mysticism (1 Temple Megaproject, 1 Dragon's graveyard)
So yeah, its pretty ridiculous... And if either of the free cities takes a stat boosting policy, or we build the dragon's graveyard temple to level 2, or gain a 6th true city, or anything like that, we'll have even more.
- Location
- United States
I believe the current Priest Quest is to upgrade the Dragon Graveyard Temple, so our passive policies should be starting to work on that soon.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Even if our next RA level is red? I know active policies wouldn't take us to red Centralization, for instance.
- Location
- Hell
*Peers to Haiti*
And in some cases wiped it out completely.
A lot of Central American history texts and information has been purposely destroyed.
@Citino That is not true, they wiped out the local government and set up their own in place.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
You know what, I think I will write somthing (but not a kate daniels novel), I will add it to my growing pile of a couple page long scenes that I keep thinking to write a story around but never do.
Alright, then this:
Seems very strange to me. In essence, it means that you have eight votes instead of seven, where seven votes simply need to achieve the most votes, while the eighth needs to achieve a 50% majority.
I'm honestly not really fussed about there being no Kick. I'm an "along for the ride" type of quester, despite the fact that I participate in voting and discussion. This just seems like a very strange way to structure the vote.
It would be like if I asked a room of people if they wanted to order sushi, fried chicken, or one or two pizzas. The most people said they wanted two pizzas, but it was decided that one pizza will be ordered because the majority of people didn't say they wanted two (because most people didn't even want one.)
If 50% was needed for all votes, then this would have made some sense, but I honestly don't see the sense of it as is.
- Location
- Illinois
Would you consider the fact that the Ymaryn likely had thousands of people die when working on the canal to be theft? Or how about the whole 'central planning' aspect of our civilization? Or just taxes in general?
Theft can only really be applied on a personal level, because it changes enough at high levels to become something else.
Also it should be noted that while the spanish were definitely not saints, what they did was far from unprecedented in history. Killing off the leadership caste and installing your own people was pretty much common sense for the Europeans, along with most other groups at the time. Hell, the original spanish conquest of the Aztecs was pretty much a textbook case of getting the vassal states to revolt against their overlords!
Not to mention the Spanish kinda get a bad rep even though they were ironically one of the better groups in dealing with native populations. They had class issues everywhere you turned, but they were pretty good at actually incorporating the native populations into their empire.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
And we have the good luck of spending 18 culture point, otherwise martial points will break into red again. Might need another spending spree next turn.
No carbonite executions probablyI am pretty sure our priests have petrified all the things for science already
- Location
- United States
I'm not sure, if only because we really don't know what red RA would mean.
We know they avoid putting us at red Cent because our government would collapse if we stayed there. We also know they let us get that high when Rulwyna was on the throne, showing that they're willing to do so if the system can handle it.
I would suppose that that means if the policies are willing to upgrade the Temple then we can live with red RA, and if they're not than we will collapse or have our government change with red RA.
Or it could just create an event in which we can lower RA somehow, possibly by the Priests overstepping their bounds and the King reasserting their authority.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think we do know we're close to a religious innovation(I think it might've been some other word that's similar but not identical to innovation, though)
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I mean you could say that we did the exact thing that the Spanish did when we killed the Xoh.
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
Ymaryn in a Blood Rage.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Christianity got so big because it simply outperformed everything else. It incorporated the entire philosophical traditions of Rome and Greece, refined it and expanded it. And the successe was by no means piggy backing or duo to a good/easy start. it's newness, tenets and the relatable mortality of Christ went against everything classical society believed. A God as a low status mortal who was crucified was beyond laughable to the Romans. From poor to rich, illiterate to philosopher, Christians where seen as a crazy fringe cult abomination, one that was often punishable by death and confiscation of property.
It is a testament to the extraordinary strength of thier theology and depth of argument, that not only did they survive despite all odds, but they managed to thrive, and in the end dominate the empire.
The term, "by reason alone do men find God" may seem strange or laughable to some modern eyes, but in the ancient times, the monotheistic priests where the creme de la creme of intelligentsia.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Invalid comparison due to a lack of coercion, i.e. "lol"
Theft by definition is a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property. Whether or not "felonious" and "unlawful" apply in a situation where a world-scope legal system does not exist and recognition of foreigners as having a place within the limited-scope legal systems does not occur (largely in order to prevent the accrual of power by the natives) is beyond the bounds of this discussion.
Theft can be applied on a non-atomic level by treating sufficiently differentiated groups as "individuals." Or simply assuming that at least some of the external-interfacing atoms of a collective are committing "theft" on the individual scale and thus saying the "[word for collective a] stole/conquested [word for collective b] is simply referring to an unduly high level of theft/conquest among the externally interfacing atoms of collective a. I.e., a linguistic shorthand, like most language is.
who cares whether or not it was "unprecedented" and "common sense for the europeans" and "pretty much a textbook case"
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- Location
- Illinois
They wiped out the top of the government (think the king/nobles/priesthood), but were quite happy to use the remnants of their admin system.
Our only real written records we have from those groups are actually due to such a thing. For example, the spanish would take the tax forms that showed the tribute owed by vassals to the Aztecs and have the few remaining priests or clerks from the old system translate it to Spanish.
Edit: Heres the result of a quick google search to give an idea of what such a thing was like. Note the spanish subtitles for each piece of tribute and the location it was drawn from:
So what generally happened is that the spanish came in, wiped out the centralized branch of the governments, crushed any local leader as well, and then took the foundations of those systems to create their own governments. Far more efficient than actually destroying those systems, and it let the spanish start making bank pretty damn fast.
To the common people, it was just the case of switching to a new group of leaders. Stange, terrifying perhaps, but not something unheard of.
Pretty much.
Not sure if that says better things about the Ymaryn or worse things about the spanish though.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
But conquest was a recognised law near everywhere. If you conquered Somthing, then it's yours legally, was a semi universally agreed upon concept. From native Americans to manchurian nomads, the law of conquest was recognised.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Theft by definition is a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property. Whether or not "felonious" and "unlawful" apply in a situation where a world-scope legal system does not exist and recognition of foreigners as having a place within the limited-scope legal systems does not occur (largely in order to prevent the accrual of power by the natives) is beyond the bounds of this discussion.
Edit: I.e., in those polities where conquest was a "recognized law" it was predicated upon a lack of recognition of the rights of foreigners. At least in a discussion taking place in the current modern context where "foreigners have rights" is a generally accepted concept, "theft" is an appropriate term for conquest.
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- Location
- Illinois
As weird as it seems, Conquest was an actually thing that people considered lawful under the feudal system of Europe. I only know a little bit about it myself, but you could actually go and conquer a neighbor under a feudal system, send in your paperwork to the king, and boom. The land and everything in it is now yours.
So if we are going to get techincal, the spanish conquest was perfectly legal under almost all laws of the time, so it was not theft.
Edit: Sheep
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Edit: I.e., in those polities where conquest was a "recognized law" it was predicated upon a lack of recognition of the rights of foreigners. At least in a discussion taking place in the current modern context where "foreigners have rights" is a generally accepted concept, "theft" is an appropriate term for conquest.As weird as it seems, Conquest was an actually thing that people considered lawful under the feudal system of Europe. I only know a little bit about it myself, but you could actually go and conquer a neighbor under a feudal system, send in your paperwork to the king, and boom. The land and everything in it is now yours.
So if we are going to get techincal, the spanish conquest was perfectly legal under almost all laws of the time, so it was not theft.
Edit: Sheep
Edit 2: If you wish to change the goalposts to "Within the context of this era's accepted social mores conquest =/= theft," that's your choice.
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