Rage against the steps means that even when we are friends with the current crop of nomads we are still the enemies of nomads in the abstract
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Rage against the steps means that even when we are friends with the current crop of nomads we are still the enemies of nomads in the abstract
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
iorn age ymaryn theme
So a potentially silly idea. Or several.
Chariots are nearing the end of their strategic utility as cavalry becomes available.
However, unlike RL, our tech is much further along by the time the switch happens.
We do have, in fact, weapons that allow chariots to remain useful. Not as good as cavalry in maneuvering, but with it's own niche.
Essentially, we try and mount our crew served Gastraphes on Chariots to get mobile artillery on the battlefield. Sheer power should still allow a lot of range, offsetting the speed disadvantage and reloading can be done on the move.
Alternatively (or additionally even) we can give the crew regular crossbows to use. The advantage of which is that it reduces Chariot archery from a highly trained job that only the nobility can do, to something our Yeomen can reliably perform due to the ease with which a crossbow can be aimed. This would reduce societal stratification as the nobility isn't the only game in town for cavalry-analogues. True cavalry will still trump this, but it allows some catching up.
Of course, with the right loading mechanism our yeomen could do the same on horseback with some difficulty, but crossbows are a bit unwieldy to reload while in the saddle. A Dragoon setup might work, though.
What should also help is that Crossbows aren't as strength reliant as normal bows. Which means women can play a much larger role in the military, opening up a lot of social mobility if they get prominent enough to use the influence to become chiefs. (Incidentally, I think IC that women will be some of the biggest supporters of Crossbow development as it allows them to defend their homes effectively).
If we take this another step further, we could look at ensuring that we have enough Crossbows in every settlement to arm every adult and allow them regular practice. Our artisans were already interested as they didn't have the time to master a bow, but Crossbows were fairly easy to use. The fun part is that every settlement is effectively armed to the teeth and anyone that actually manages to get over the walls in spite of All The Crossbows now gets to experience urban warfare where everyone shoots at you with crossbows.
Kinda like Switzerland.
Which might even repulse Nomad Waaghs as we'd also be able to arm the entire male population. And female too. And force the nomads into killzones that make their horses near useless.
(We make a forest and call it peace.)
Lastly, arming the entire population (more than it is already) further encourages the nobility to stay popular as an angry population can wreck them.
Chariots are nearing the end of their strategic utility as cavalry becomes available.
However, unlike RL, our tech is much further along by the time the switch happens.
We do have, in fact, weapons that allow chariots to remain useful. Not as good as cavalry in maneuvering, but with it's own niche.
Essentially, we try and mount our crew served Gastraphes on Chariots to get mobile artillery on the battlefield. Sheer power should still allow a lot of range, offsetting the speed disadvantage and reloading can be done on the move.
Alternatively (or additionally even) we can give the crew regular crossbows to use. The advantage of which is that it reduces Chariot archery from a highly trained job that only the nobility can do, to something our Yeomen can reliably perform due to the ease with which a crossbow can be aimed. This would reduce societal stratification as the nobility isn't the only game in town for cavalry-analogues. True cavalry will still trump this, but it allows some catching up.
Of course, with the right loading mechanism our yeomen could do the same on horseback with some difficulty, but crossbows are a bit unwieldy to reload while in the saddle. A Dragoon setup might work, though.
What should also help is that Crossbows aren't as strength reliant as normal bows. Which means women can play a much larger role in the military, opening up a lot of social mobility if they get prominent enough to use the influence to become chiefs. (Incidentally, I think IC that women will be some of the biggest supporters of Crossbow development as it allows them to defend their homes effectively).
If we take this another step further, we could look at ensuring that we have enough Crossbows in every settlement to arm every adult and allow them regular practice. Our artisans were already interested as they didn't have the time to master a bow, but Crossbows were fairly easy to use. The fun part is that every settlement is effectively armed to the teeth and anyone that actually manages to get over the walls in spite of All The Crossbows now gets to experience urban warfare where everyone shoots at you with crossbows.
Kinda like Switzerland.
Which might even repulse Nomad Waaghs as we'd also be able to arm the entire male population. And female too. And force the nomads into killzones that make their horses near useless.
(We make a forest and call it peace.)
Lastly, arming the entire population (more than it is already) further encourages the nobility to stay popular as an angry population can wreck them.
We are technologically in the iron age. But that was a fluke discovery. Most of the rest of the planet outside of our trade range should still be in the Bronze Age.
And even for us, the development is uneven. Iron allowed us to leapfrog several developments, but others lag behind as iron has little to do with it. Like apiaries, olive oil and all kinds of fun stuff that was matter of course during the early iron age, but we are just now getting to these.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
I'm going to feel stupid but what are apiaries and why are they important?
- Location
- US
They're artificial beehives. Makes it easier to get honey and beeswax.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
domesticated beehives
they're important because a) honey is a valuable trade good and topical disinfectant (fight bacteria w/ other bacteria), and b) pollination is important (ofc) and having controlled, movable centers of pollination is both useful and reduces the likelihood that beehives will form in uncomfortable places.
Edit: Oh, yeah, also wax like Crimson Soul said. Beeswax = candles, seals (letters & bottles), waterproofing, probably other stuff.
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- Location
- Canada
Beehives I've been asking for beehives since the begining of the sacred forest project. I wanted our culture to empasize them to the point of having a hive in every home. I wanted insects to be accepted as another source of protein and cultivated. The best way to avoid creepy crawlie taboo is to never develop it in the first place.
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- Location
- BaWü
Then my local bee-keepers are making it the wrong way because you smell it when you use bee wax.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
We don't have Beekeepers yet? No wonder our tech tree is so lopsided!
How can we ourselves the PSNs if we can't use bee's pollination to increase crop yield?
I've been thinking that Apiaries had something to do with woodcarving and such not a big deal. Expand Forest until we get it has jumped up on my priority list.
Hmm, Beekeeping was a Monkish hobby in the Middle ages right? We have Wine and Hospices are pretty close to monasteries.
Maybe Do a retraining, expand forest, and Carrion eater combo?
How can we ourselves the PSNs if we can't use bee's pollination to increase crop yield?
I've been thinking that Apiaries had something to do with woodcarving and such not a big deal. Expand Forest until we get it has jumped up on my priority list.
Hmm, Beekeeping was a Monkish hobby in the Middle ages right? We have Wine and Hospices are pretty close to monasteries.
Maybe Do a retraining, expand forest, and Carrion eater combo?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I understand this is a euphemism, but at least in places where every "home" doesn't contain at least an acre of lush foliage, this is implausible.
@Dirk93 Does it smoke, though? You definitely can smell beeswax but it should be pleasant and somewhat unnoticeable. If these aren't true they're probably adding things to the wax.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Tallow is worse.
- Location
- Canada
So basically we'd be the only culture who could get away with it.
Larger communal multihive bee farms in the city, and smaller personal hives in the countryside. It would do wonders for pollenation as well.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
The problem with Chariots is that they are terrible for uneven terrain, not until you invent modern suspension would you prevent it collapsing while speeding in uneven terrain. As for crossbows, the problem is that ammunition isn't infinite, nor is it cheap. There's a reason historic armies didn't just fire arrows or bolts indefinitely, they are always in limited supply .
And sadly, we don't have landed nobility, or landed anything for that matter, the state owns everything.
As for woman in the army, the main obstacles are largely biological
(but our aristocratic women can negate most of them due to diet and training), and won't be surpassed until we reach the late industrial era. But yes crossbows or spears will make them more viable for deterring raiders (as was the case in some societies).
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
.... I'm not a beekeeper but I assumed that putting hives near each other would result in them attacking each other?
@maximillian I assume the intent wasn't to fire the gastrophetes while the chariot was running, but rather to be able to move them to specific positions as desired.
If you need to keep moving the people chasing you are probably close enough that the chariot's instability isn't a significant impact on your ability to hit them.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
There's also wax tablets, cosmetics, usage in the arts. As well as opening up a whole new branch of the culinary arts ( assuming we have the nobility to patron and indulge in it anyways)
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
- Location
- Philippines
I think he means candy and jam making. Also fruit preserves.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
... candy.. requires wax?
- Location
- Philippines
No honey.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
I know, but carts are still far more effecient at transportation, as they can actually handle stress, varied terrain, different weathers as well as wear and tear. Chariots died out primarily because of thier extreme fragility. And carts cost a tenth of what a chariot would, and you can substitute a horse for a mule or ox.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
I meant honey and it sub products.
And you can infact use wax in desserts, it can absorb flavours and is edible afterall.
The next update should include the first Main Study Forest in the history of our civilization, so there is a decent chance we will get some bees.