We did a single study forest in the entire history of our civilisation. We are most definitely not working on it. We're behind the rest of the world on it I'd wager.

I doubt that there are other civilizations who studied the forests more than we do.

Well I guess it's a good thing we have a head start with longships, what with the Vikings loving them for shore raids as far as I can recall.

They're great for carrying light infantry. I am not so sure about horses. We would need to build a lot of boats just to be able to carry enough horses to be useful and it would be a waste for those boats to sit idle in peacetime, not being used to conduct commerce.
 
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I doubt that there are other civilizations who studied the forests more than we do.



They're great for carrying light infantry. I am not so sure about horses. We would need to build a lot of boats just to be able to carry enough horses to be useful and it would be a waste for those boats to sit idle in peacetime, not being used to conduct commerce.
I think he means just bees and not forests entirely.
 
So no. An effect that says "helps other people catch up to you" does NOT improve our relative advantage.

Unsurprisingly, exchanging ideas lead to greater technological progress, but ideas are going to leak one way or another.

It's a good thing for humanity, considering the long threat to our progress is mother nature throwing a really nasty tantrum. We can't really do anything about it except progress as fast as we can without imploding our polity.
 
We did a single study forest in the entire history of our civilisation. We are most definitely not working on it. We're behind the rest of the world on it I'd wager.

We've done Study Forest (the action) twice so far.
We've done 2 secondary and 1 main Expand Forest since the megaproject.

That's 6 secondary study forests, and probably more than anyone else in the world.

Edit: All of these are before the action rework, so old secondaries and mains.
 
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I doubt that there are other civilizations who studied the forests more than we do.



They're great for carrying light infantry. I am not so sure about horses. We would need to build a lot of boats just to be able to carry enough horses to be useful and it would be a waste for those boats to sit idle in peacetime, not being used to conduct commerce.


We have taken a singular study, and due to the command economy and absolute centrilised state, no segment of our society had the motivation or authority to do independent studies and development.
As for the other civs They may not have been building forests but that doesn't mean they haven't been experimenting with selection and domestication.

If they are anything like the civs that historically occupied those areas, I am welling to bet that the TH, the Swamp folks and the Khemetri already have apiculture. The Khemetri and th extensively so.
 
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We've done Study Forest (the action) twice so far.
We've done 2 secondary and 1 main Expand Forest since the megaproject

have taken a singular study, and do to the command economy and absolute centrilised state, no segment of our society had the motivation or authority to do independent studies and development.
if you're gonna shill for Feudalism at least do your research sheep man. This is just lazy of you. Lazier than a landed nobility.
 
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We have taken a singular study, and due to the command economy and absolute centrilised state, no segment of our society had the motivation or authority to do independent studies and development.
As for the other civs They may not have been building forests but that doesn't mean they haven't been experimenting with selection and domestication.

If they are anything like the civs that historically occupied those areas, I am welling to bet that the TH, the Swamp folks and the Khemetri already have apiculture. The Khemetri and th extensively so.


Also, it's not as if bees don't exist outside forests. Plains and meadows are better suited to apiculture afterall.
 
I've had a continuous litany of "Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllllllshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!" running through my head since I realized we have an incredibly easy and reliable way to dump Cent when we need to now.
Uhhh.... Wildcat was better at being reliable. Wildcat triggers whenever we do a survey, we just.... Didn't do surveys. And they cost tech, but we just got a tech refund which makes them a lot cheaper. Wildcat is often amazingly stat-positive, and was acting like a support Subordinate whenever we used it on a periphery.

This one's not bad, but we don't know how frequently it'll trigger (we know it's not 1/turn)
 
Anyway, looking through the wiki, the problem of a landing craft is that:

a) small
b) can only land on select beaches, unless you're a hovercraft
c) not really that comfortable and difficult to control in bad weather.

Potentially, with a large navy, you could support amphibious assaults but only at select locations.
Not so big a problem with longships. Lands damned near anywhere, even if you have to get off and lift it
I call BS on this. Other people getting our tech for free is a good thing for our polity, and "ensures we stay on top of the relative advantage game"? Really?

If we leak a tech that we are leading and actively working on to people (e.g. Iron), all that does is let other polities catch up, closing our lead.
If we leak a tech that we are leading and NOT actively working on to people (e.g. Anatomy, at least according to your example), that again closes our lead, and then when others overtake us it lets us not keep behind too much. We still went from being ahead to being behind; congratulations.

If we leak tech that we are not leading in, then both ourselves and the person we leaked it to are still going to be behind the current leader, and the current leader is the one we would want to tech-drain off of anyway. So we've just let some stragglers catch up to us for no advantage.



The only case where your logic works is if we are leading, are not actively working on the tech, and leak it to one and only one polity, using them to "outsource" our research. In that case, we still lose relative advantage to them, possibly massively so, but our relative advantage to others grows. To that, I say, "perhaps". But I wouldn't count on us being able to leak to a single polity, the conditions of leading but not actively advancing aren't that common, it is unclear whether our inwards tech drain is enough to reliably "catch up" to whoever we passed our research to, and even if all of that worked perfectly there is no guarantee that the researcher won't just sell/gift/spread the tech elsewhere.









So no. An effect that says "helps other people catch up to you" does NOT improve our relative advantage.
The way these leaks work, the other polities don't have the traits to leak to each other and leaks cannot skip prereqs as we learned ourselves.

So we get to go tall in chosen tech trees. They steal the lower fruits, which they develop and we steal back.
They get the same techs individually, we get innovations off all of them and can focus on building to exploit.

This inherently favors the larger power who can exploit the techs better, when with the passive techsteal they collectively can't get past us in any field for long even as they individually get closer.

Its more powerful the more they are hooked up to you. In this setup, the one at the center benefits the most.

Its the tech version of being the Trelli. Whoever gets a dominance, it becomes yours.
I doubt that there are other civilizations who studied the forests more than we do.



They're great for carrying light infantry. I am not so sure about horses. We would need to build a lot of boats just to be able to carry enough horses to be useful and it would be a waste for those boats to sit idle in peacetime, not being used to conduct commerce.
We longshipped a cavalry force up the steppes before.
 
On the contrary, 3 of our 6 study forest secondaries were done by subordinates.

if you're gonna shill for Feudalism at least do your research sheep man. This is just lazy of you. Lazier than a landed nobility.

Well that's embarrassing, forgot to count subordinate actions. Still my point on our apicultural backwardness stands.


And the nobility couldn't afford laziness, that was a stereotype of peasants for most of history. The nobles always had things that needed to be done. The fact that they were highly elaborate social ceremonies does not make them less difficult or exhausting.
 
This one's not bad, but we don't know how frequently it'll trigger (we know it's not 1/turn)
We have a guess. This turn a demand for more forest showed up for forest, a demand for more farmland for black soil and a generic farm harder dammit.

May be able to trigger with mines, docks and the like which consume forest?
You know surveys don't always find things, right? I know at least twice we've had surveys come up nill. And another time we found a saltern-place (which AFAIK wouldn't trigger wildcat, being an extended project.)
Extended projects can. Dragon temple.

Surveys can also find doubles like with the iron galena
 
You know surveys don't always find things, right? I know at least twice we've had surveys come up nill. And another time we found a saltern-place (which AFAIK wouldn't trigger wildcat, being an extended project.)
True, but main surveys have always (so far) found at least 1 and sometimes 2 things. The only time we failed to find things was was when we did secondary surveys, and from before our action doubling at that.

Being able to trigger it ~90% from a main action is a lot more reliable than "sometimes".
 
@Academia Nut given that we've had Population Explosion ongoing for multiple turns now and it has a similar effect as Influence Subordinate on our subordinate's cultures have we had the effects of a Main Influence Subordinate in terms of cultural change yet?

Given that you haven't really sent over any spare settlers yet, not really.

@Academia Nut, would the open up the market also include finished goods?

If you choose that option, yes.

A least? No we need exactly two for the upgrade. We are currently at shrine lvl0, so 1slot for temple lvl1 , and second slot for grand temple lvl2.

So that's two slots in total.

Level 2 temple via palace requires 4 annexes.

So I'm pretty sure this has been answered before (and I can't find it because help this thread is large), but can we absorb the Stab Damage from Terrify using PiA?

Sometimes.
 
Given that you haven't really sent over any spare settlers yet, not really.



If you choose that option, yes.



Level 2 temple via palace requires 4 annexes.



Sometimes.


Would building the new lowlands settlement + integrating our hat colony net us enough provinces for two extra annexes?

And by if you chose that option do you mean the open market or finished goods?
 
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[x] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[x] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[x] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[x] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[x] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

Switching my [PiA] vote to the Highlanders. I've been pretty much convinced rigid law is probably a good idea for us, at the moment, given our corruption problems and de-facto hereditary.

If it causes problems, we can adapt from there.

Not interested in building chariots for the nobility, here, and -5 wealth isn't a huge penalty that we can't ignore. Especially since fulfilling the request costs us wealth in the first place. If they ask us for something that's actually useful, we can give them something then.

Keep in mind that we're strengthening the factions we give stuff to. I do not want to be stuck having to avoid doing something important because it'd give too much power to a faction.
 
Not interested in building chariots for the nobility, here, and -5 wealth isn't a huge penalty that we can't ignore. Especially since fulfilling the request costs us wealth in the first place. If they ask us for something that's actually useful, we can give them something then.
Actually we do want to meet that quest for non numerical reasons. The stated reason was that there was a lot of idle nobles doing nothing but waste shitloads of money.

You don't want a situation where they start coming up with reasons why its virtuous and excellent to sit there and do nothing. This happened historically with a lot of fads. The power of rationalization is strong.

Short term, the chariots are a bandaid.
Long term we want lots of Gymnasiums to keep them productively busy(they don't know to demand those since there are none yet). Chariots after all, bring little power without a war on the steppes to use them on

The more long term dangerous demands to meet are the Traders, Guilds and Priests. These are permanent increases in power.

And the bloody traders are just throwing a tantrum here about not being dominant enough when we dominant more than half of all significant trades.
 
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Short term, the chariots are a bandaid.
Long term we want lots of Gymnasiums to keep them productively busy(they don't know to demand those since there are none yet)
A) Keep in mind the penalty from ignoring idle rich is the exact Wealth cost of a [main] Chariots.
B) Pretty sure Gymnasiums are going to be unlocked as of our next turn, so if we want them building them immediately is already an option.
Adhoc vote count started by Candesce on Aug 4, 2017 at 10:31 AM, finished with 94795 posts and 111 votes.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Aug 4, 2017 at 10:31 AM, finished with 94795 posts and 111 votes.
 
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