ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Granted, the intermarriage with the Khemites could be pushing that more toward de jure as time passes.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Some, yeah. Higher sex discrimination, too.
People with a Khemite spouse or ancestor will have an edge in elections, and if the supply of noble Khemite wives (and it's near certain to be wives, they're not likely to give us potential heirs) dries up, which seems likely, that's one edge that newcomers can't copy to get into the elite.
Thankfully, supporting the Priests is pretty cheap this time. At worst, it takes one secondary action, 3 Econ, and 3 Culture, plus locks up 3 progress from our passive policy. At best, it locks up the passive policy for 6 progress. Since it gets us an extra temple (which we absolutely want; we kinda need RA now that we are in contact with a culture with a stronger religious presence, and in the case of the Dragon's Graveyard gives us +1 Myst income), I don't see any reason not to go for it.
Concho117
Going really fast!
- Location
- Somewhere in Orbit
We need Democracy!
I think we want Sacred Forest's temple done first, though both is good, too.
- Location
- United States
I'm pretty sure we already have that problem, and it's usually solved by newcomers marrying into existing noble families.
This makes it essentially impossible for a person to rise to the Kingship from nothing in one fell swoop, but encourages people to work within the established system in order to progress.
We definitely want the Dragon Graveyard one done... but I'm not picky about getting it done first. I can see why people want the Sacred Forest to stay dominant as much as possible.
You know, if/when we get another passive policy from Redshore I want to put it into infrastructure. As is, we've got a backlog of centuries worth of infrastucture projects that need doing - and I'd rather get started sooner rather than later. Also, with Aqueducts reworded I kindof want to spam them for the "prevents disease" bit. And if Gymnasiums are Extended Projects...
Also. If we do run out of things to focus on? One secondary is enough to switch two Infrastructure Passive Policies to something else, so it wouldn't even cost much to rebalance things. Given that I'd like to get Extended Projects done ASAP I feel confident in frontloading them when possible.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait...random thought: @Academia Nut shouldn't we have a vote to set our new passive policy from redshore?
Good to know.
Good point.. @Academia Nut ?
Did we take any traits from the Western Confederacy before we collapsed them thru refugees? I forget
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
i'm fine w/ giving people chariots because having people do something useful is generally better, but I 100% agree w/ Candesce. This is just having people buy their way into the position. Unless Build Chariots doesn't just expand our pool of chariots we're essentially just increasing the # of Patricians who will receive military acclaim, get a political job more easily, and combo-pack militarize and stratify our social system just a bit more.
But frivolousness is a worse social ill so *shrug*
@Abby Normal yes
But frivolousness is a worse social ill so *shrug*
@Abby Normal yes
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
If Personal Stewards of Nature triggers even slightly reliably and doesn't tick up our minimum centralization, most of my objections to mass cities now go away, so I'd be fine with another infrastructure policy.
I still want a second defense policy, though, because that lets the passives raise the heavier walls.
We were told that they would start doing that once the significant walls were maxed. And indeed, I would totally support a second Defense policy at that point.
Only, we have a long way to go before we get to that point. A loooong way to go.
And we'd get there twice as quickly with a second defense policy.
I don't want walls because they're a convenient progress marker to fill out. I want walls because the nomads we're next to have tiered up, and we need to prepare for that.
Every single one of our neighbors is going to have access to iron after this turn. I'd really, really like to double our significant wall production. Accelerating our progress to the next tier of walls is a nice side bonus.
I'm not against a passive dedicated to Diplomacy eventually, but we've really gotta get our civ rolling before we start worrying about how much our neighbours like us. It's not sexy, but Infrastructure and Defense are probably the most crucial policies to our long term health and success right now.
Worst case scenario, we could probably drum up some Trade Mission support every once in a while through pure meming. "Uwaaa!! Khemetri-kun is sick and stayed home from the Games this year. Let's make a home visit! :3"
I feel physically ill after typing that.
The Stallion Tribes had all their territory walled, I think. And passive policies aren't going to start building Massive Walls yet. So what are you hoping to see?
The bolded is explicitly wrong here.
The nobles were unhappy because their children had nothing to do so spent the wealth allocated to them for the purchase and maintenance of chariots on ridiculous extravagances instead.
Chariots could only be comissioned by the state.
So, while we're at it, another look at the quests:
Patricians - Objective: Build Chariots within 2 turns. Success: +1 Culture, Failure: -5 Wealth
If we succeed:
-Idle noble scions will be kept occupied in the military elite.
-Patricians slightly strengthened by improving odds of their family performing well in chariot races at the Games.
-Happy patricians invest into the arts independently.
If we fail:
-Idle noble scions will spend their chariot budget on something else instead
--Said scions will find something else to waste their money on. If we're lucky and have the alternative facilities in place, they may redirect to productive endeavors to excel(after all, rich, idle nobles were a cause for the advancement of the arts and sciences...with the right social infrastructure). If we're unlucky, they will self justify the pursuit of idleness and excess as a goal in itself.
Overall, meeting it is harmless, failing it can be very harmful or beneficial.
Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 3 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech
If we succeed:
-The Glassblowers, Jewelers and Alchemists(and all their forks like soapers, dyers, etc) will be strengthened.
-The overall Guilds power will be slightly strengthened.
-Increased glass goods strenghtens the Traders.
If we fail:
-Brain drain as the alchemists needing more glass cannot get any.
Overall, meeting it is great. Failing it is nasty
Traders - Objective: Obtain Leading status or better in a new trade good within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability
If we succeed:
-The overall Traders power will be strengthened.
If we fail:
-The Traders throw a tantrum.
Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability
If we succeed:
-Patricians significantly strengthened by adding a new province, new land, which means new posts and titles.
-Yeomen happy at being able to farm more.
-More land, more actions, more things needed to fortify and road.
If we fail:
-Nothing happens.
Priests- Objective: Build a Level 2 Temple within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Legitimacy
If we succeed:
-Priests significantly strengthened in status
-Religious authority bolsters ability to convert neighbors and dominate in pilgrimage.
-Possible L2 temple facilities unlocked.
-Still behind the Khemetri's L3 Temple.
If we fail:
-Priests denounce the King for disrespecting the gods.
We'd be below the cap. We're raising a mercenary company out of the current best charioteers into Dragon Company. We need to replenish the chariots anyway.
Basically this.
In this case, partially true.
Rams, for instance, are hideously inefficient for Bronze civilizations to use. They can't mobilize them easily enough to use on a large scale. They are effective for Iron civilizations...provided they have a body of skilled smiths to figure the design out anyways.
But if we switch to ballistas and stone throwers they are then hugely outdated again. And whoever tries to copy ballistas would need to develop an expert body of engineers and mechanicists to copy it.
Cavalry...we've seen the Nomads do this throughout history, so yeah.
Though they're already mounted as well I would not be very surprised if they beat us there. Disappointed, but not surprised.
Economies of scale. A big chunk of our techs are outright useless to a smaller polity, and only really usable at all if you are at Thunder Horse or Khemetri sizes. Another chunk requires resources specific to certain biomes, or the skill and knowledge infrastructure to copy it.
Take the Sacred Warding here, anyone can see it and try to copy it, but only the Khemetri have a decent chance of pulling it off without fucking it up. It takes a large priesthood devoted to scholastic pursuits to imitate.
Or take the volley archery, anyone could copy it, but they don't have the social foundation of large numbers of militia archers with an obssession towards perfectionism trying to perfect their shot, or the cultural attitudes towards unity to synchronize effectively.
And yet, when we got a direct route to the Khemetri, the trade still flowed through the Trelli, because they are the faster channel.
The same principle applies here with techs. Whoever in the region gets a shiny, we get it, then people copy it off us.
But we have the traits that make reverse engineering foreign ideas fast and effective, while they don't.
Then vote for defensive ACTIVE policy, which can actually put down 5 significant walls / watchtowers per turn. Passive policy can be much more fruitfully used to upgrade our other infrastructure.
1) Armies can bypass walled cities to strike undefended territory
2) At this social level, there are more war phases per turn
3) Iron equipped armies are able to conquer much more, much faster than bronze equipped armies
It is no longer sufficient to fortify our periphery, now we need to start fortifying our core lands.
We've got a bunch of newly settled lowlands territory next to the Highlanders that hasn't been walled yet.
I'd also like to put off accelerating our True City formation until we're done with this Highlander war that people want to go through with, especially since the same reasons not to make Sacred Forest a free city also apply to Stallionpen and their Dragon Graveyard.
We're going to have to be doing lots of new trails if we want to keep our centralization up, after all, and we're only spending centralization so quickly.
By which we mean, we make it officially possible for the idle rich to buy glory at the cost of our military's competence.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ehhh... Redshore is on the verge of popping, so waiting to see what happens.
From a direct action stand point, passive defense policy is more efficient than passive infrastructure policy (2/3 secondary vs 3/3 secondary). Considering our current massive stat income, an active infrastructure policy would be superior to an active defensive policy.
Also, this thread is never going to vote for an active defensive policy, it might as well not exist. So it's passive defense policy or nothing.
Infrastructure is awesome, but not at the expense of our existence.
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Go build Gyms. That's how you get there. Lots of Gyms.
Yes, the very weapon we killed them with.
Western Confederacy: Pioneering Spirit. Fused into Sharing Circle to unlock econ drain powers, and used to suck the Western Confederacy to death.
Spirit Talkers: Honorable Death, Sacred War. Sacred War led to a series of events which ended in our unleashing the Thunder Horse on the lowlands, which ultimately led to the doom of the Spirit Talkers after they were penetrated from front and rear...because of the goddamned axe.
Xohyssiri: Greater Good, Center of Trade. Greater Good eventually fused into Cosmopolitan Acceptance, which allowed us to elect a Nomad king, which led to the burning of Xohyr.
Hathatyn: Wildcat Prospecting. Nothing personal, we just wanted their forests and mines.
Actually, Build Chariots would be currently replacing lost chariots. We're channeling our best charioteers into the Dragon Company and spinning that off this turn. Need to replace them.