Oh my.

Probably rather mind boggling to him that the pale woman(remember, our Northern provinces are heavily nomad-white compared to the browns of the lowlands and the blacks of Khemetri ) could fight him and match him.

Alright, now, stay with me here. Remember Yenyna fights battles by seeing crows who is, among other things, The Devourer, in our culture warn her who was going to die. He also noted that her tactics seemed to have the Sun Devourer's own luck. If they learned about her and her condition they may very well have come to the conclusion that she was housing the Sun Devourer much as the Pharoh was housing the Sun god in himself.

I am so curious as to what would have happened if they had learned about that aspect of Yenyna. Really wanted to see it. :cry:
 
Mostly education and your embassies. Your suggestion isn't actually going to achieve an immense increase in general literacy, and should probably be approached via a different method to achieve your stated goals. The current best bet for promoting education might actually be something like theatre or other culture increases in my mind.

No, it's not education proper, but I think the teaching of morals and history through our epics is a better idea for getting more knowledge to a greater quantity of people. I don't think we can build enough temples to make a serious difference in the meanwhile, unless you find a way to reliably lower religious authority. I also don't think trade posts are going to be embassies pretty much ever. I think we actually just have to manually do trade missions for that. Or go onto trade policy, which I will be advocating for this upcoming turn, since even if our provinces would do it, we won't have enough wealth to double main raise army this turn.

I view Mandala as a personal preference and while I probably prefer it myself, I have bigger fish to fry, so it doesn't really garner my attention.
Thank you!

I see what you mean with the embassy thing, and looked into them online, and have come to agree with you. I will thus be changing it.
In terms of Trade Policy I've actually stated a desire to change to it next turn too, so that it can send missions to the Nomads and the like.

I can actually see what you mean with the theatre and the like, since our festivals did similar in the past and now. I still think that temples and libraries will help, but I will include the theatre and the like.

Mandala I am curious about since it is an advancement on our previous Palace Economy and has been stated by AN to be similar in certain ways. I don't really have any concrete reasons beyond curiosity though, as guild merch is fine for now. I could certainly think up some but most anyone could think up reasons for anything given time.

You made an interesting comment in your previous post about dangerous parts of our government system. Could you elaborate if it's not too much trouble/effort?


Alright, now, stay with me here. Remember Yenyna fights battles by seeing crows who is, among other things, The Devourer, in our culture warn her who was going to die. He also noted that her tactics seemed to have the Sun Devourer's own luck. If they learned about her and her condition they may very well have come to the conclusion that she was housing the Sun Devourer much as the Pharoh was housing the Sun god in himself.

I am so curious as to what would have happened if they had learned about that aspect of Yenyna. Really wanted to see it. :cry:
Funny how human beliefs can align, huh?
I'd have loved that too.
 
You made an interesting comment in your previous post about dangerous parts of our government system. Could you elaborate if it's not too much trouble/effort?
How we distribute and maintain power has the potential for many pitfalls. Making sure that we have good enough communications, that we buckle down on corruption when we can, these would be the average things I'd pursue when applicable (increased road connection definitely currently follows that). In general I try to keep an eye out for these things, but one of the number one problems out there is a decentralized military.

Having your military in such a situation that they can realistically just overturn the government if they have reason to is incredibly dangerous, and organizing things so that the military is under as much central authority as we can manage is how we try to stop it. This is why Marches are something of a double edged sword, and why I voted to incorporate one despite the risks this turn. It's why I was so incredibly happy about merc groups and considered them one of the best things out there when we got them, and why I continue to look for means of centralizing or otherwise reforming military power whenever it is realistically viable.
 
Welcome to historical realism, where sometimes you aren't a godlike marysue civilization. And God damn did I enjoy the fact that someone was FINALLY an actual threat to us. They were worthy. The fact that we couldn't just bum rush them was good and one of the only war sections I've seen of as exciting since the Star Axe.
Likewise.
I believe we have the origin of the phrase "Make love, not war" for our cultures now.
Heh. :)
 
It's getting close to update time.
The crazy has begun it's climb!
There'll be no salvation,
'till AN's narration,
Of whatever happened this time!
 
And now that that silliness is over.

Speculation on the benefits of the Great Forge?
Good old megaproject analysis to the rescue!
-What it does:
--Unprecedented increase in iron production and recycling, leading to explosion in iron tool availability and equipment innovation. We already have a lot of these, but if we don't have steel when we start we'd get it really soon after. Then comes all the fun stuff you can make with steel, springs, gears...

-What it needs:
--Large supply of iron ore. While initially Redhill local mines will suffice, we need to change how we mine the metal or how we transport ore to actually keep the furnaces fed once we scale it up.
--Large supply of charcoal. We'd need a lot more forestry, and we'd need to transport large amounts of bulk charcoal. We'd need to invent whole new ways to burn it more efficiently to make it work.
--Large supply of mechanical power. While aqueducts are a good start, the system does demand a fair bit more than that to keep it working at full force. We're going to need to make our mills more efficient and easier to maintain unless you want to shut down the ironworks to replace a single stripped gear.
--Gathering large numbers of smelters and ironworkers. This would probably greatly influence Guild politics.

-What are it's consequences:
--Pollution becomes visible. The emissions from iron smelting will remain low, thankfully, since most iron ores don't have a lot of noxious materials once it cools to stable slag, but we'd be burning enough charcoal to blacken the sky with smoke. We'd need to either come to an accomodation with this socially, or work on ways to burn it more cleanly.
--Economy skew. Concentrating such a major industry will need to find whole new ways for master artisans to work together. Administrative in nature but also political because building the iron works will touch on the miners for the ore, the ashers for the charcoal, the traders to transport all the fuel and product, the smelters to process it, and the millers to maintain the hammers. The smiths will move in to take advantage of the high availability of quality metal, the alchemists to take advantage of the slag products, and priests move in to service the population and study metal. Then further concentrate as the potters and glassblowers imitate the economies of scale by grouping their fuel intensive workshops together to work more product with less fuel. Short version. True City.


It occurs to me that the Khemetri do not know about the cure for cholera, and that they are sophisticated and wealthy enough to be able to maintain the scourge warding as well. The former is free, but we might trade the later, say, for some of their knowledge on constructing large stone projects, or knowledge of the stars.

The main issue with maintaining the warding is conveying the rather esoteric knowledge through a translator, and transferring institutional knowledge to a theocracy via your priests.

Difficult.
I'd probably just start with Cholera.
Sacred Warding is too easy to fuck up, and we've seen little of libraries needed to record it accurately without being integrated into religious practice.
...and they'd also be reluctant to retool their economy like that. It seems they've gone Build Tall for their temples, one giant temple, rather than our shrines in every settlement, and herds in every settlement.

You do realize that the Eastern Roman empire, or the Byzantine Empire as we known them, exists in the East, right? So knowledge wasn't lost. On the contrary, the Roman empire continued along for another thousand years until they were conquered by cannons and the Ottoman Empire.
While they existed as a political entity, the various crisis happening to them as they broke up/shifted power DID result in the loss of a lot of institutional skill and knowledge however, while the cultural shifts didn't help either.

tl;dr It would just turn the Stallions and the Martial we just gained into a mobile version of themselves that we'll also keep putting off integrating forever.

Theres no reason to integrate a mercenary group except subordinate slots and wealth generation. If you want to fix their culture just park them in Valleyhome for a few generations.

I think it was Martial Cap from arsenal 2, and tech refund from arsenal/shrine/library synergy.
We've yet to meet the Shrine 2 on that.
AN actually confirmed that us and all our neighbors have what amounts to short swords, pretty widespread even, so i think it just hasn't been added? I think that was in response to me, so "sword abby" would find it in search? Alternately, searching whatever the term is for the egyptian curved blade weapon khep-something would find it, since he used that word in that post.
AN mentioned that we've been copying the Khopesh from the Khemetri, but he ALSO mentioned that Case Hardening supported a longer and harder sword than we used to be able to make with iron.
 
We've yet to meet the Shrine 2 on that.
His response to my question on the subject suggests we already met that synergy with just the one bit of shrine:
Check the front page.
Also i'll note that having just one of a given annex doesn't seem to unlock a full "effect", like how just having one library annex wouldn't have given us the library bonus, "just" a narrative boost. So i think it makes sense for arsenal x1 to just give us narrative boosts, while arsenal 2 gives us safe martial limit (and stronger narrative boosts), and then the synergy from shrine+arsenal+library (at least one or two of which are doubled) gave us the tech refund. Note that in comparison, 2 libraries only got us half a refund, so i find it hard to believe 2 arsenals got us a full refund on their own
 
Soon the Great Forge we will build.
And all of our smiths will be skilled,
At pounding the ore,
And working once more,
With everyone else in the guild.
 
In general I try to keep an eye out for these things, but one of the number one problems out there is a decentralized military.

Having your military in such a situation that they can realistically just overturn the government if they have reason to is incredibly dangerous, and organizing things so that the military is under as much central authority as we can manage is how we try to stop it. This is why Marches are something of a double edged sword, and why I voted to incorporate one despite the risks this turn. It's why I was so incredibly happy about merc groups and considered them one of the best things out there when we got them, and why I continue to look for means of centralizing or otherwise reforming military power whenever it is realistically viable.
But our mercenaries are not part of our central military? They are fully capable of conquering new land for themselves, selling themselves to provincial governors who want to break away from the rest of the polity, or even seize the reigns of power if they have more martial than our central government.

In some ways, mercenary companies are more dangerous than marches. At least the marches are bound to a defined territory and can be made co-dependent on the rest of the polity.

We've found one mercenary company to be easily manageable. We may find that the more mercenary companies we have, the harder they are to control.
 
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How we distribute and maintain power has the potential for many pitfalls. Making sure that we have good enough communications, that we buckle down on corruption when we can, these would be the average things I'd pursue when applicable (increased road connection definitely currently follows that). In general I try to keep an eye out for these things, but one of the number one problems out there is a decentralized military.

Having your military in such a situation that they can realistically just overturn the government if they have reason to is incredibly dangerous, and organizing things so that the military is under as much central authority as we can manage is how we try to stop it. This is why Marches are something of a double edged sword, and why I voted to incorporate one despite the risks this turn. It's why I was so incredibly happy about merc groups and considered them one of the best things out there when we got them, and why I continue to look for means of centralizing or otherwise reforming military power whenever it is realistically viable.
*reads*

More roads? I agree!

You think centralizing the military arm is a really good idea? So do I!

I think I agree with everything in this post here.

Soon the Great Forge we will build.
And all of our smiths will be skilled,
At pounding the ore,
And working once more,
With everyone else in the guild.
*walks up to Concho*
*grabs by shoulders*

Calm thyself man! The Limericks will consume your soul!
 
Oh huh, I just realized something

@Academia Nut
Can we use a single [Main] action to do two different Extended Projects of the same type in different locations?

I noticed that our [React] Aqueduct option did a secondary in both Redshore and Redhills. That's kinda surprising since I didn't know we could do separate targeting in a single main action.

On a related note, would we be able to do two different palace annexes in a single [Main]?
 
I... never thought about that before... huh, that means a large amount of our lower class would be black/brown due to them being immigrants and meh w/e
Not black. We've never seen black until we contacted the Khemtri.

Skin colors to social proportion:
-Three Peoples - Olive and light browns.
--Sort of the 'average' color.
--Prominent throughout society, but particularly in the core elite as the oldest families.
-Nomads - Pale and white. Great variety.
--North dominant.
--Prominent within the warrior elite due to the Stallions and the Hawks and their love of Martial heroes.
-Lowlanders - Darker browns
--Core dominant.
--Prominent throughout society, but particularly in the core elite due to Magwyna's son starting up a noble family with one.

I don't think we have anything to worry about on racism. While the underclass has a lot of lowlander skin tones, we've been taking in lowlander refugees since forever(meaning in turn they are already present before society started stratifying and got their shot at power), and they're married into the Magwyna lineage via her son.
I'm concerned that the mandala economic system might replace the passive policy we get from true cities to something less desirable.
Considering AN said it grants even better action efficiency than Guild, I suspect it might trade off some passive policies in exchange for another more powerful action .
Alright, now, stay with me here. Remember Yenyna fights battles by seeing crows who is, among other things, The Devourer, in our culture warn her who was going to die. He also noted that her tactics seemed to have the Sun Devourer's own luck. If they learned about her and her condition they may very well have come to the conclusion that she was housing the Sun Devourer much as the Pharoh was housing the Sun god in himself.

I am so curious as to what would have happened if they had learned about that aspect of Yenyna. Really wanted to see it. :cry:
There's decent odds of their Heroic Diplomacy Heir sending us a Trade Mission to check us out.
 
But our mercenaries are not part of our central military? They are fully capable of conquering new land for themselves, selling themselves to provincial governors who want to break away from the rest of the polity, or even seize the reigns of power if they have more martial than our central government.

In some ways, mercenary companies are more dangerous than marches. At least the marches are bound to a defined territory and can be made co-dependent on the rest of the polity.

We've found one mercenary company to be easily maanageable. We may find that the more mercenary companies we have, the harder they are to control.
No, while mercenaries are still dangerous, they are not as dangerous as marches.

Granted, marches do things like fortifying the ever living hell out of a territory, and Mercenaries require a wealth drip, so it's not that mercenaries are 'better' than marches, but they don't have a pre-established system of infrastructure that they are already in charge of, making it incredibly easy for them to just decide to not listen anymore if they don't want to.

Centralizing military not only gives people less power to revolt in the first place, it also increases our ability to punch them in the face should they decide to, thus further putting a stop to it happening.

Centralizing armies also makes them much stronger due to better training in working together.

I think I agree with everything in this post here.
Yeah, I mostly just want to make sure our nation is strong rather than force advances down its throat. I'm willing to do a few advances.
 
Oh huh, I just realized something

@Academia Nut
Can we use a single [Main] action to do two different Extended Projects of the same type in different locations?

I noticed that our [React] Aqueduct option did a secondary in both Redshore and Redhills. That's kinda surprising since I didn't know we could do separate targeting in a single main action. Would we be able to, say, do two different palace annexes?
While i would like the answer as regards extended projects since that is a bit of a grey area, i'll note that we've had reaction choices for 2 separate secondaries before; just last turn we did Sec Study Health + Sec Carrion Eaters for our reaction action, remember? So its not always one single main action for those anyway.
Considering AN said it grants even better action efficiency than Guild, I suspect it might trade off some passive policies in exchange for another more powerful action .
Check the post again, that was explicitly comparing Mandala to Palace, not to guild.
 
Palace -> Mandala reduces temp econ damage somewhat (palace is great for that at the cost of being so action inefficient that you can fall into a death spiral of not being able to do enough to fix a problem and thus unable to dig out of an issue), but increases action efficiency and there are economic benefits for having lots of subordinates.
Specifically, it was a comparison to the palace economy that would cause a death spiral for being so inefficient.
 
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Yeah, I mostly just want to make sure our nation is strong rather than force advances down its throat. I'm willing to do a few advances.
Foundations I can agree with. They make sure you don't collapse when you build tall.

As to that merc v march rebellion chance thing, AN has directly said that the reason Mercs don't have a dependency rating is because they have a theoretical infinite dependency.

t's better to say that they don't have infrastructure, nor the ability to build any, so they are infinitely dependent.
AN answering to Abby about the RB's lack of Dependency for anyone curious.


This all together makes me think they are less likely to rebel unless we horrifically fuck up, because they have no base of infrastructure to operate from.
 
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His response to my question on the subject suggests we already met that synergy with just the one bit of shrine:

Also i'll note that having just one of a given annex doesn't seem to unlock a full "effect", like how just having one library annex wouldn't have given us the library bonus, "just" a narrative boost. So i think it makes sense for arsenal x1 to just give us narrative boosts, while arsenal 2 gives us safe martial limit (and stronger narrative boosts), and then the synergy from shrine+arsenal+library (at least one or two of which are doubled) gave us the tech refund. Note that in comparison, 2 libraries only got us half a refund, so i find it hard to believe 2 arsenals got us a full refund on their own
Hmm, then REALLY want to see what happens when we complete the set, since the Shrine 2 and Storehouse 2 are the last parts of the clerks recommended Super Admin Package
But our mercenaries are not part of our central military? They are fully capable of conquering new land for themselves, selling themselves to provincial governors who want to break away from the rest of the polity, or even seize the reigns of power if they have more martial than our central government.

In some ways, mercenary companies are more dangerous than marches. At least the marches are bound to a defined territory and can be made co-dependent on the rest of the polity.

We've found one mercenary company to be easily manageable. We may find that the more mercenary companies we have, the harder they are to control.
The solution to that is obvious: Never deploy a company to foreign lands for too long. Always recycle them to your core provinces to rest and recover values after a deployment.

Considering we use our companies mainly for garrison duty rather than making money, there's no danger.
 
Hmm, then REALLY want to see what happens when we complete the set, since the Shrine 2 and Storehouse 2 are the last parts of the clerks recommended Super Admin Package
Well, to be specific, wasn't that more "AN's example of a super biased opinion on the palace"? It's certainly a useful opinion set, but i dont think it should be taken as gospel :p Also didn't it include double gardens too? I know my wishlist for now is shrine 2, storehouse 2, garden 2, and then stable 1 and 2 once that gets unlocked, because by then we should have enough provinces and subordinates to support them too.
 
Khemetri: Wow...a female general? That's hot!
Trelli: FUUUUCCCK!
Highland Kingdom: I should not had attacked them. I should not had attacked them. I should not had attacked them...
Thunder Horse: Get off of me, you SMELLY SWAMPY BASTARDS!
Swamp Folks: Kekekeke. I smelled WEAKNESS.
Ymaryn: WAR'S OVER. HIP HIP HOORAY!
 
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