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Paths of Civilization

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Sivantic said:
Not really? We soundly thrashed them over the head. That does not seam non-destructive.

...I think you are missing the point of them being hunter-gatherers?

They became that way because the northern climate does not allow for Nomads. Nomads require Grasslands to feed their Horses, something that would be at a dearth at that altitude.
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I mean, if fighting back in a war qualifies to you as destructive, the way I can think of ending a war in a non-destructive manner according to your interpretation is bribing the other party into leaving us alone.

This option won't work on basically any opponent other than the Nomads, since it would just show off our wealth and incentivize them to continue beating us and taking our stuff.

This seems like something that might be best for AN to clarify whenever he gets back.
 
[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Spacegnom said:
Quick question: Does the Econ cost for recruitment actions get refunded into Econ Expansion?
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Yep. It is a little odd from one way to look at it but it does. I think you can look at some of Abby Normal's diff checkers to get confirmation. Try the older ones though, we haven't raised warriors or chariots ourselves in a while.
 
Spacegnom said:
But, if I had to choose was between WTP and NTP. I would probably just take the chance of angering the Trelli. Since, if we avoid catastrophic war rolls, our Baby boom should allow us to pump out as much boats and warriors(?), as are needed to defend the WTP.
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Only if we put in the actions for them...

Which we can't at this point in time. So we would be stuck with our current forces facing them.
DragonParadox said:
The forest dwellers are hunter-gatherers. There is no such thing as a climate too cold for nomads until you hit the ice sheet.
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There is if you can't feed the horses you depend on. They are in the Northern Forest, not something that allows for horse travel.
Rakuhn said:
Ancient era naval warfare, which routinely involved hundreds to thousands of ships in a strategic theater. I thought it was obcious that the numbers used were to illustrate that a numerically inferior force could be concentrated to overwhelm a dispersed numerically superior force.

There is a significant difference between individual pirates, and a state-owned pirate navy. Sure, most of the time they'll probably be in hunter-killer packs to overwhelm our merchant convoys. But those hunter killer packs would be much more profitable if the main Trelli navy wiped out our counter-piracy fleets.
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Except it is explicitly raiding, not a full out war. It only becomes a war if we provoke them. Even then they are mostly pirates with little of the infrastructure to produce an actual military leader. They have spent generation depending on just their bottleneck and fast ships, not martial genius.

Raichu1972 said:
I mean, if fighting back in a war qualifies to you as destructive, the way I can think of ending a war in a non-destructive manner according to your interpretation is bribing the other party into leaving us alone.

This option won't work on basically any opponent other than the Nomads, since it would just show off our wealth and incentivize them to continue beating us and taking our stuff.

This seems like something that might be best for AN to clarify whenever he gets back.
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Agreed. It seemed the sort of thing of fighting to a stalemate sort of thing or something. *shrug*
 
Concho117 said:
Wait, which picture quote?
One day the Ymaryn will get WMDs!
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Dis

The text was gone in the first one.

We can, just get someone to dig deep enough and recreate Metal Worker's hell portal*.
Dam up someone's watershed is also viable.
Or cause eco-disaster by sailing far and wide then bring the cute animals and plants back*.

*Remember to do it in someone else's land.
 
Sivantic said:
Only if we put in the actions for them...

Which we can't at this point in time. So we would be stuck with our current forces facing them.
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To me the only TP that won't require more actions and has a decent chance of success is the ETP.
The WTP will need support vs the Trelli.
The NTP probably has a high chance of failure without further support.
 
Spacegnom said:
Quick question: Does the Econ cost for recruitment actions get refunded into Econ Expansion?
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Yes. The only options which don't are Transfers and those which specifically say they consume Econ expansions.
Concho117 said:
What if we got their population hooked on Opium?
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Can't grow enough, can't grow enough potency to make that at all feasible. At present, Opium is comparable in value by weight with gold.

Besides, if you want to mellow out somebody we're probably better off with Marijuana
 
McLuvin said:
Wow.....

Just wow! You really have tried your absolute hardest to make a civ as dickish as the Xoh haven't you?
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To be fair, they're not exactly holding them at knife point, and they are keeping them in comfort, its just that the Trelli want insurance to increase the loyalty of those they hired.

veekie said:
Typical enough, though does the bolded mean that they're forming Marches?
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Sort of. They're starting to get in on the territorial expansion game anyway.

veekie said:
For the matter, how does a slave raid work mechanically?
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If you were the sort of dicks who did raiding, you could gain Econ and/or Wealth from successful offensive missions. With trade it would also increase your trade power in slaves.
 
Academia Nut said:
To be fair, they're not exactly holding them at knife point, and they are keeping them in comfort, its just that the Trelli want insurance to increase the loyalty of those they hired.
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Did we do similar when we hired the Hawks? Though from our perspective it's probably more of "our family can stay safe behind our walls while you patrol the steppes""
Academia Nut said:
Sort of. They're starting to get in on the territorial expansion game anyway.
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Hmm, sounds like they're going to be dependent upon Prestige going up quickly or they're going to grow brittle pretty fast.
Academia Nut said:
If you were the sort of dicks who did raiding, you could gain Econ and/or Wealth from successful offensive missions. With trade it would also increase your trade power in slaves.
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Ah, so basically they set their unemployed mercenaries on Raid(nearby minors) mode whereas we don't have that option, so our Red Banner when not deployed are always doing rest and recovery even when they don't need it.
 
Random vent cus y'all are already salty enough -

Things I hate:
-XCode's warnings.
-Class Projects with strict no-late deadlines.
-C++
-C++'s unhelpful error codes
-Stack Overflow
-My bad work habits.

Things I Like:
-//comments
-Recursion
 
Praise Crow! I am now fully caught up! That was quite the rollercoaster at times, I have to say. Fun to read, though :D

@Academia Nut thanks for the awesome story you've crafted and congratulations on hitting over three thousand pages!

As for the vote, well, I'm going to go for the option that has the least chance of us getting into a war. The arguements for the west trade post are entirely valid, but we've literally just finished a massive round of wars and are in the middle of a rather large admin crisis. My view is that we've got a tiny amount of breathing room, since the lowlands aren't sucking up war actions, therefore why start provoking an unnecessary war, far from our borders and easy support, when we have so many other things on our plate. The northern trade post also gives us access to more trade goods and is a better long term investment at the moment.

[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Also, we should party more because we deserve it after the last century. *insert party hard.gif*
 
DragonParadox said:
And the Northern Forest is surrounded by steppe so while the nomads can't live there they can raid there. Saying the forest is safe from nomads like like saying our forested hills are safe from nomads.
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Our forested hills are safe from Nomads. The problem is we have a lot of land that is not in that form of terrain

Either way, there is no push to expand that Trading Post into a Colony and it is a good defensive location.
 
Inspirit said:
Praise Crow! I am now fully caught up! That was quite the rollercoaster at times, I have to say. Fun to read, though :D

@Academia Nut thanks for the awesome story you've crafted and congratulations on hitting over three thousand pages!

As for the vote, well, I'm going to go for the option that has the least chance of us getting into a war. The arguements for the west trade post are entirely valid, but we've literally just finished a massive round of wars and are in the middle of a rather large admin crisis. My view is that we've got a tiny amount of breathing room, since the lowlands aren't sucking up war actions, therefore why start provoking an unnecessary war, far from our borders and easy support, when we have so many other things on our plate. The northern trade post also gives us access to more trade goods and is a better long term investment at the moment.

[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Also, we should party more because we deserve it after the last century. *insert party hard.gif*
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Hallo good sir!

Okay, super important question. What was your favorite thing to read in the quest so far?

E: Semi appropriate gif.

 
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Citino said:
Most of your argument is sensible, but I think you are making as assumption with this part. The update mentioned they were hiring other nearby tribes to fight for them, much as we hired the HH for ourselves. In which case, it doesn't matter that their martial wouldn't be able to support more than 2, as they could just hire the warriors of their neighbors to fill out their ranks instead.

Less loyalty that way, but you can pull a lot more numbers.

Well, as long as the coin keeps flowing that is.
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I think the comparison to Carthage is important here. During the Punic wars, Carthage hired pretty much every mercenary for almost a thousand miles around to fight Rome. People from as far away as what is now Eqypt, Syria, Spain, France, and Morocco came to take their money and fight.

It is honestly pretty impressive how extensive the classical world's mercenary market was.

Sivantic said:
...Except that is not how pirates work. Pirates don't work in an armada, they are opportunistic lone raiders.


...Are you getting this from Pirates of the Caribbean???
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Not always. For one, during this time period piracy was more of a fishing village's off season side job. People who couldn't get enough fish, because there is only so much fish ancient fishing can get, would frequently raid any passerby who they thought they could take.

Not to mention, not all piracy followed the Caribbean model. If I remember correctly, the Barbary Pirate states, Arabian penisular pirates, and some of the later southeast African coastal pirates would sometimes operate with mass fleets of smaller ships, which would swarm a target with large quantities of fighting men in boarding actions.

Sivantic said:
Our forested hills are safe from Nomads. The problem is we have a lot of land that is not in that form of terrain

Either way, there is no push to expand that Trading Post into a Colony and it is a good defensive location.
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Were safe. As AN mentioned, we're about to leave tutorial mode for steppe nomad invasions. We're entering the timeframe where almost nothing ever stopped them. Horseriding is a huge gamechanger.
 
Cerillian said:
Were safe. As AN mentioned, we're about to leave tutorial mode for steppe nomad invasions. We're entering the timeframe where almost nothing ever stopped them. Horseriding is a huge gamechanger.
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Which is why we need to not stick our dick into Tin Tribes who are being currently approached by Trelli.
Could you please use approval voting benefits and vote for both your Eastern Trade post and something that has a better chance of winning? Or do you think that this is only good option?
 
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