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Paths of Civilization

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veekie said:
The North Trade Post is the far bigger sink in costs and actions however,
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Sure, because we would definitely not need to do a Main Support Subordinate or War Mission after this if we put the West Trading Post down :V
veekie said:
He specifically said "if it doesn't die to weather damage in 3 turns". Considering Trade Posts start with 2 Econ, it could die in turn 1 since Weather damage goes up to 3 from what we know, so two Main Supports(one in the same turn as the founding) sending 4 Econ would ensure it does not die...but it eats up Econ AND the Red Banner, which gives us nothing to contest the Trelli when they start raiding.

None of which would pay out until 3 turns in at least while it gets set up. That the Northern Trade Post gives good materials is uncontested. That it would give us the material in a timespan that matters to this issue is. If they take the Western Trade Post spot we basically don't have any option left but to beat them at sea in an offensive war.
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He said there was a possibility of weather damage, not a guarantee.

The second part is lies. As soon as we got our first trading post, we immediately started to see returns. The returns would be delayed by six months, but we work on a twenty year time scale. That is not an issue.


Stop acting as if the Red Banner Company is our sole military force. It is unbecoming.

If the Trellis tries to raid, they face our walls and our fully armed and armored military might. All of our Towns are garrisoned. We are not their weakly defended neighbors, we have been defending against Nomads and ex-Hathatyn warriors turned bandits for generations.

The Red Banner Company is specifically for force projection. We don't build the West or East Trading post, we don't need them in the south.
Rakuhn said:
Did we read the same post? Its pretty clear to me that the Trelli plan on raiding our shipping no matter what we do. What we are choosing is how to prepare for said raids.

I suppose that one nation attacking another doesn't count as war if the other doesn't fight back, but that seems like a silly distinction.
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No, it was clear that the Trellis was looking to attack defenseless boats, not raids. Which is why we need better boats.
 
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Umi-san said:
@Sivantic when they say raids they really mean piracy, essentially. i.e. naval battles.
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The difference between the two is that our towns are all already walled, having had to do so because of preexisting threats (Nomads in the Westshore, Bandits in Hatvalley)

The second we are beginning to remedy by building more boats. Having a Northern Trade Post to send us better boat constructing materials would go aways to helping that.
 
Sivantic said:
The difference between the two is that our towns are all already walled, having had to do so because of preexisting threats (Nomads in the Westshore, Bandits in Hatvalley)

The second we are beginning to remedy by building more boats. Having a Northern Trade Post to send us better boat constructing materials would go aways to helping that.
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ya
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Umi-san on Jul 15, 2017 at 12:58 AM, finished with 76454 posts and 109 votes.
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Cleaner Tally
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3007 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 75173-76397]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: Diplo
[62][Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[29][Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)
[9][Diplo] Open fresh trade (Two Sec Trade Missions to neighbours)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Exp
[46][Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[35][Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[17][Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[13][Exp] Integrate the Stallion Tribes
[7][Exp] Do nothing here
[6][Exp] Found Mercenary Company
[2][Exp] Challenge the Trelli to a children's card game.
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Int
[58][Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)
[31][Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)
[5][Int] Water wheels are awesome (Main BuildMills)
[2][Int] Plant forests (Main Expand Forests)
Total No. of Voters: 109

Most of the people her have already voted, but there is still 12 hours before vote lock

...

I can still dream
 
Sivantic said:
The difference between the two is that our towns are all already walled, having had to do so because of preexisting threats (Nomads in the Westshore, Bandits in Hatvalley)

The second we are beginning to remedy by building more boats. Having a Northern Trade Post to send us better boat constructing materials would go aways to helping that.
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If we had 100% light walls, more medium walls, and 100% watchtowers I'd be a lot more confident in our ability to hold them off. Fortunatly, right now we are only talking about them raiding (ie interdicting) our shipping. If they do get uncontested naval superiority, then yes I'd expect extensive raiding of our towns and villages.

If one combatant has one hundred boats in a single group, and the other has five hundred boats split among twenty groups unable to communicate with each other, the first combatant wins.

We need our boats for commerce and communication with our provinces and subordinates. They only need to use their boats for raiding. They have the initiative, and just the mere threat of their forces will immensely increase the strain on our nation (what use to take only one boat will now take many).

More and better boats help, but they are not enough. It will still ocassionally be profitable, and it will still weaken their rival, so it will be done. The only way to prevent the raiding from ocurring is to make sure that they have much more to lose than they have to gain.
 
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Rakuhn said:
If we had 100% light walls, more medium walls, and 100% watchtowers I'd be a lot more confident in our ability to hold them off. Fortunatly, right now we are only talking about them raiding (ie interdicting) our shipping. If they do get uncontested naval superiority, then yes I'd expect extensive raiding of our towns and villages.

If one combatant has one hundred boats in a single group, and the other has five hundred boats split among twenty groups unable to communicate with each other, the first combatant wins.

We need our boats for commerce and communication with our provinces and subordinates. They only need to use their boats for raiding. They have the initiative, and just the mere threat of their forces will immensely increase the strain on our nation (what use to take only one boat will now take many).

More and better boats help, but they are not enough. It will still ocassionally be profitable, and it will still weaken their rival, so it will be done. The only way to prevent the raiding from ocurring is to make sure that they have much more to lose than they have to gain.
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...Except that is not how pirates work. Pirates don't work in an armada, they are opportunistic lone raiders.


...Are you getting this from Pirates of the Caribbean???
 
People who have voted, please consider voting
[X][Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
to defeat trade post near Trelli options.

Task: Exp
[46][Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[35][Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[17][Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[13][Exp] Integrate the Stallion Tribes
[7][Exp] Do nothing here
[6][Exp] Found Mercenary Company
[2][Exp] Challenge the Trelli to a children's card game.


[X][Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)
[X][Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)
 
VoidZero said:
People who have voted, please consider voting
[X][Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
to defeat trade post near Trelli options.
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I am moderately against the Northern Trade Post. That's just opening up another warfront, whereas the Western Trelli one is just starting a war that's gonna be coming to us either way, we're just starting it before the other side is ready. (or ensuring that it doesn't happen at all)

Also, if things do go badly (which isn't guaranteed, I give a ~50% of Trelli not starting a war) then we'll have to spam More Boats a bunch. Which is fine, Boats are a very useful way to generate the LTE needed to keep the Baby Boom going while also generating both innovation rolls and is net positive in normal stats.
Also it'd be a defensive war. And you know what that means? Stability gain!
 
notgreat said:
I am moderately against the Northern Trade Post. That's just opening up another warfront, whereas the Western Trelli one is just starting a war that's gonna be coming to us either way, we're just starting it before the other side is ready. (or ensuring that it doesn't happen at all)

Also, if things do go badly (which isn't guaranteed, I give a ~50% of Trelli not starting a war) then we'll have to spam More Boats a bunch. Which is fine, Boats are a very useful way to generate the LTE needed to keep the Baby Boom going while also generating both innovation rolls and is net positive in normal stats.
Also it'd be a defensive war. And you know what that means? Stability gain!
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The arguments are more or less settled now, so there isn't much value on digging it up.
 
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