they raided our non-hilly-forested land

Because chariots could not go into hills.
Horses can. Mongol invasions of Georgia - Wikipedia

They could crush everyone they attacked, regardless of how high the mountains were - and our hills are way easier to pass then mountains.
Like, if we go full paranoid fortification and are ready to bow our heads when Khan appears, we are kinda fine-ish, but...
 
I really wonder if anything interesting would happen if we did Dam and mills at the same time.
Quite possibly. I mean as long as we have the baby boom the Dam is basically paid for and actually helps perpetuate it.

We wold not get anything like Hoover Dam or the like, but in general discussion way back when the idea was first brought up I think the thread decided that putting the mills on a cut out overflow going from the dam would be an excellent idea. It's because of the regular flow. And with our new Noira's and the basic gearing involved there it should be super excellent.

As to actual innovations I don't know what could spawn from it.
 
No they are not, the nomads raided us before we got the Stallion Tribes, that's how we got the Stallion Tribes.
Nope. They were not. They were raiding Stonepen which was distinctly north of our mountains.
Not always. For one, during this time period piracy was more of a fishing village's off season side job. People who couldn't get enough fish, because there is only so much fish ancient fishing can get, would frequently raid any passerby who they thought they could take.

Not to mention, not all piracy followed the Caribbean model. If I remember correctly, the Barbary Pirate states, Arabian penisular pirates, and some of the later southeast African coastal pirates would sometimes operate with mass fleets of smaller ships, which would swarm a target with large quantities of fighting men in boarding actions.
It was a joke:V

As for the other, they are raiders of both unprotected villages and trade ships. Those are not targets that currently require dozens of ships to overtake, which was the original statement.
Because chariots could not go into hills.
Horses can. Mongol invasions of Georgia - Wikipedia

They could crush everyone they attacked, regardless of how high the mountains were - and our hills are way easier to pass then mountains.
Like, if we go full paranoid fortification and are ready to bow our heads when Khan appears, we are kinda fine-ish, but...
Which is still a ways off. Either way, if we are facing a literal Mongol Horde, it doesn't really matter where we put the trade post:V
 
Which is still a ways off. Either way, if we are facing a literal Mongol Horde, it doesn't really matter where we put the trade post:V

If we are facing Chenghiz-tier invasion, yes, only choices are to surrender or die.
If we are facing smaller one, difference between having our hands full with war against peer power at the end of our logistical train and at their favoured terrain (sea) and not having our hands full is important.
 
Quite possibly. I mean as long as we have the baby boom the Dam is basically paid for and actually helps perpetuate it.

We wold not get anything like Hoover Dam or the like, but in general discussion way back when the idea was first brought up I think the thread decided that putting the mills on a cut out overflow going from the dam would be an excellent idea. It's because of the regular flow. And with our new Noira's and the basic gearing involved there it should be super excellent.

As to actual innovations I don't know what could spawn from it.
I actually don't think we even need to. We are already fully aware of their benefit. This late, it will probably already be built in.
@Academia Nut how difficult would it be to build a road between Greenshore and the West Trelli tradepost?
You want to send our workers right next to a war zone for raiders?
 
If we are facing Chenghiz-tier invasion, yes, only choices are to surrender or die.
If we are facing smaller one, difference between having our hands full with war against peer power at the end of our logistical train and at their favoured terrain (sea) and not having our hands full is important.
What is wrong with a smaller surrender? Have the Trading Post pay tribute, keeping bulking it up until it doesn't need to.
 
I actually don't think we even need to. We are already fully aware of their benefit. This late, it will probably already be built in.

You want to send our workers right next to a war zone for raiders?
Oh! Hmm. That's a good point actually.

Any ideas on innovations that may spawn from us putting them in there automatically, 'cause I am drawing a complete blank.

E: Here is Kiba's Watermill tech list for reference.

Watermill Innovation List:

Green is implemented.


Technical Upgrade:

  • Waterwheel -> Water Turbine (industrial era)
  • Watermill -> Windmill
  • Ship mill
  • Tide mill
  • Team boat - Waterwheel propulsion powered by animals.
  • Noria

Applications:

  • Gristmill
  • Blademill
  • Barkmill
  • Blast Furnace
  • Paper mill
  • Oil mill - crush seeds into oil
  • Sawmill
  • Powder mill
  • Water pumping
    • Noria
  • Ore Crusher
 
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If we are facing Chenghiz-tier invasion, yes, only choices are to surrender or die.
If we are facing smaller one, difference between having our hands full with war against peer power at the end of our logistical train and at their favoured terrain (sea) and not having our hands full is important.

What is wrong with a smaller surrender? Have the Trading Post pay tribute, keeping bulking it up until it doesn't need to.
I mean, we even already have precedent of this working with the Heaven's Hawk, so it is not totally impossible.
 
We need more Mills! We need more Salterns, we need more aquedu TMEPLIBBRAY

Juts give my the wine
 
[ ] The West:
Pros:
-Access to Tin Trade
-Greenshore

Cons:
-Angers Trelli (Possible War)
-Little support from Ymaryn Kingdom
The salt Negaverse has when they learn the Ymaryn have little actual need for tin due to being an Iron-age civ will be adorable.

Anyways, I saw snippets of the inevitable 'we should wage biological warfare' and have found another, marginally less morally reprehensible but entirely more culturally palatable alternative in chemical warfare. Good 'ole Quicklime - we're damn good at alchemy, and IIRC have some lime pits in the North. It's reactive with water, and has a history of being used in naval warfare, possibly helps pave the way for developing Greek Fire, is fitting with Ymaryn near total war doctrine, and the special kind of dangerous and nasty that get's us depicted as terrifying sorcerers rather than monsters willing to destroy all that you love (like biological warfare tends to).

Now I'm sure people will tell me this wrong, and I'm a horrible human being for suggesting it- but this isn't even something we have to necessarily use on population centers or noncombatants. Yeah, it's a terrible fate for the poor bastards hit with it, but a battlefield terror weapon like this potentially offers an opportunity to save lives by a faster rout and less willingness for survivors to reenlist. And even then, this isn't something even really in the same league as mustard gas or any of the real terrible chemical weapons.

For example, combining something like a Dolphin and quicklime to smash jars of this on enemy boats would be an absolute nightmare for the Trelli to deal with, and a near OCP that would terrify pretty much everyone involved.
 
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Did we read the same post? Its pretty clear to me that the Trelli plan on raiding our shipping no matter what we do.
Actually, that's just a rumor. The only thing we solidly know is that they have launched raids against tribes that weren't producing much else of value to themselves, and they sell the resulting slaves to wealthier nations.

Now, that's detestable by our standards, but it's not an existential threat to us. We would be in the category of people that they sell to, not people they sell. They might be annoyed that we won't buy slaves, but we're still very profitable for them, so they aren't going to disrupt us without a really good reason.

Even if they do raid some of our ships, though, that's a minor and treatable problem. We can arm our ships better, or form convoys, or pay them off. It's in no way equivalent to the kind of war we might get if we build the west trading post.

Remember how the nomads, who are the most warlike people we know, still think we escalate too fast? We hear rumors of future piracy - though the Trelli have never actually lifted a finger against us - and we're preparing for total war, pointing a dagger at the heart of their economy and making plans for battles to the death. People, relax! They've done nothing to us, they've started nothing with us, from their perspective there is no apparent reason for a quarrel with us. If we try to take over their tin, every other polity who hears about it would agree we launched a serious unprovoked case of economic warfare.

If we are so appalled by their actions that we want to wipe them out like the Xoh, that's our prerogative. But don't take aggressive action - and even if it's not "offensive war", the western trading post is definitely aggressive - on the assumption that they are about to launch a large-scale assault on us. They're almost certainly not, and we have been given no reason to assume otherwise, if we think about how they think instead of applying our own standards.
 
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Besides, if people are indeed so kin on stopping slavery, we have closer to home neighbours doing it.
Of course, I am not buying for a moment that people are doing it for moral reasons and not dick-measuring ones. :V
Oh horror Trelli might be stronger than Ymaryn at the thing which is Trelli whole schtick - we must kill them here and now! :V
 
[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Hm.
 
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Y'know Trelli is really undermining themselves here, once the waters become unsafe trade will dry up then they'll have a lot of young men used to the idea of looting, either they start invading wealthy neighbours or enter a stability crisis.
 
[X] [Int] Water wheels are awesome (Main Build Mills)

i want the milli

If you vote for not!Western trade post (which is currently Far North, which has its problems too, but oh well), I can vote for mills.

Y'know Trelli is really undermining themselves here, once the waters become unsafe trade will dry up then they'll have a lot of young men used to the idea of looting, either they start invading wealthy neighbours or enter a stability crisis.

Kind of? Venice was pretty strong and all...but honestly, if we just colonize not!Anatolia slowly we can creep up to them and catch them in the Bronze Age Collapse in about a 1000 years.
Playing the long game and all.
 
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