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Paths of Civilization

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ETA50M said:
Which doesn't detract from my point that the HK currently fear us more then they ever did ever the Xoh.
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Oh I thought you meant that the HK fear us more than the Xoh fear us.

Makes more sense with your explanation and I totally agree.

"Shiver me timbers, it's th' Ymar'n"
 
Abby Normal said:
I really don't think dealing with trelli will be a problem. By the time we're powerful enough to be looking towards the Not!Mediterranean, and secure enough elsewhere to actually focus on them, instead of having to put out fires from the nomads, or the lowlands, or the like, i'm pretty sure we'll have grown powerful enough to scare them into giving us access (for a fee, admittedly) or barring that, either requesting to be a subordinate either to us or whoever our rival in the area ends up being, or attacking us, whether directly or (more likely) through cutting us off from trade, which is likely to cause a causus belli for us, even if we dont end up with trade values again. At the very least, by the time we expand into not!Anatolia enough to have ports on either side of them, we'll either surround them enough to provoke them into the above, or we'll start building a canal, and that will provoke them into a war, because we'll be acting to make them pointless.
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The Telli have dominant strategic good (Slaves) and are close to a second (Tin). Dominance in strategic goods has been noted to be much more powerful than dominance in luxury goods. Combine this with their almost assured traits that synergize with trade, that they probably get a portion of our trade dominance for themselves (five dominant, two near-dominant) and they'd probably be rich enough to fund entire nations as their armies.

The only things preventing their hegemony are:
1) Climate Instability (halve trade income)
2) There aren't any mercenary companies to hire

A few turns after climate instability ends, they'll become much more powerful. If iron technology spreads and other mercenary companies are formed, they'll be unassailable. There will be no point at which we are powerful enough to force them into a vassalage status without first going to war.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
The first city we have ever took during a fight, and we razed it to the ground.
The first real nomad WRAGGGG and we left a dead space of human life for 1000's of miles.
Our first time our leader went to war, ended in a civ death aka spirit talkers.
It's not a outlier if it happens every time we do it.
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As the very last update noted, we don't half-do war.

If we actually have a good enough reason to interrupt our farming and come all the way across the country and pick a fight against your armies and lose people taking your cities, then chances are we're pretty mad at you, and you can expect flourisation.
 
Rakuhn said:
The Telli have dominant strategic good (Slaves) and are close to a second (Tin). Dominance in strategic goods has been noted to be much more powerful than dominance in luxury goods. Combine this with their almost assured traits that synergize with trade, that they probably get a portion of our trade dominance for themselves (five dominant, two near-dominant) and they'd probably be rich enough to fund entire nations as their armies.

The only things preventing their hegemony are:
1) Climate Instability (halve trade income)
2) There aren't any mercenary companies to hire

A few turns after climate instability ends, they'll become much more powerful. If iron technology spreads and other mercenary companies are formed, they'll be unassailable. There will be no point at which we are powerful enough to force them into a vassalage status without first going to war.
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I'm just going to look over at iron. This is a strategic good that we not only dominate, but only we can even use at the moment. By the time other major powers have iron we will likely be onto steel. The only reason Tin dominance is important is because it means you can bully those who need it for bronze. Newsfash, we don't need it. Slaves is a strategic good, yes, but is again only good for bullying civs who need them for their economic engine. Again, we don't even need them.

They simply can't dominate us or the local trade networks. Hell, we are likely one of their major suppliers of tin, as we buy it from everyone else.

Edit: honestly, steel is such a natural progression from iron forging that I'll bet we only need one or two Study metals to get it now that we have all the ingredients on hand.
 
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pbluekan said:
I'm just going to look over at iron. This is a strategic good that we not only dominate, but only we can even use at the moment. By the time other major powers have iron we will likely be onto steel. The only reason Tin dominance is important is because it means you can bully those who need it for bronze. Newsfash, we don't need it. Slaves is a strategic good, yes, but is again only good for bullying civs who need them for their economic engine. Again, we don't even need them.
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No we don't need slaves. I am talking about trade income. We don't trade iron, ergo we don't get trading bonuses for dominating it.

Trading dominance in a strategic good likely pays more wealth (or diplomacy?) than a luxury good. That means that the Trelli are have a higher income, and more influence, than many are assuming.

And no, I'm not advocating getting into the slave trade.
 
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HAH FIRST POST ON THREE THOUSAND

Edit: To contribute to discussion: I think absorbing the Highland Kingdoms, or at the very least forcing them to become our vassal, is a more important task than conquering the Trelli. The Trelli will cap us long term, but so will a nearly permanently hostile entity a stone's throw from our heartland.
 
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Oh wow 3000 pages that is a lot anyway I am just here to say that that voting in Phygriff was a very good decision it not only covered our one northern blind spot but also got us three military techs because of him and his descendants.
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
HAH FIRST POST ON THREE THOUSAND

Edit: To contribute to discussion: I think absorbing the Highland Kingdoms, or at the very least forcing them to become our vassal, is a more important task than conquering the Trelli. The Trelli will cap us long term, but so will a nearly permanently hostile entity a stone's throw from our heartland.
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I think we're likely to persists in not going to war until the HK found an opportune time to invade us and our vassal.
 
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