Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Lies
The extermination of local tribes was obviously due to their barabaric nature, no other reason for it, no sir, that's exactly what happened....
I thought people want to colonize America or bring super plague there?
Certainly hope we are trying for trading opportunity instead of "enlightening" or "liberating" them.
Just because a fancy cover was used, doesn't mean it wasn't bloody.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I just want their plants, personally
and maybe their land, though that would depend on having a better passive integration policy
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- Location
- Canada
Nah that was Africa where they used that as pretext for invasion. The Americas began as trading posts that became colonies and over time the horrors began escalating and escalating when the need for more land became more and more required.
Super plague is possibly an unavoidable side effect, not really intended.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Ahhh, that was a good nap.
Hmm?
Hmmmmm...
It's Alucard again. When did that last happen...?
Ah! Oh my.
Welp. Good news guys, the last time this particular video was used it was after <Fey mood> and we had killed all the Nomads in a 1000 mile radius. Then the other time something similar was used was when we got our iron dude.
Something cray cray happened.
Note to self: Be careful taking Ymaryn on walks.
So I was thinking as I went into the blissful arms of Sleep about our issues.
There are basically two versions that I'm seeing of what we want to do next:
1. We stay on Offense policy and slightly slow boat the Palace, handling various other things as they come like mid turns.
or
2. We switch to Megasupport and prosecute whatever war we are in while our provinces build the Palace.
So the crux of this issue as I see it is that if we are in a two front war(might not be a thing with the new AN Alucard WoG), it is better to stay in Offense. And the reason for this is that we as the King have difficulty targeting two enemies. We can with some finagling do it but it's basically throwing secondaries for the most part, which may not be enough.
As to a direct comparison of 1 and 2:
1 means we can fight off multiple enemies, focus on the mega, but have to accept that the provinces may spend resources inconveniently i.e see them spending 2 Wealth recently.
2 means we can finish the mega quicker, but have to focus on the war, provinces are going to generate resources more than they spend them in the mid run.
There are probably other factors which I can't remember or have slipped my grasp but that's how I see it. And the way I support them is: If in a two front war, take 1. If not in a two front war, take 2.
On to other things I have discovered something rather *Ahem* terrifying.
I think someone has already talked about this, but I don't remember so I'll bring it up cause I think it is important.
I realized when I woke up that this Stability drop means we can preform Targeted CA drains restricted to one country, or wholesale begin absorbing minor civs. I'll repeat that.
Targeted. Single victim. CA drains.
And we have a chance to negate the loss of stability on our end if it is one stability hit only. So we can start directly leaching +2 Economy from one civ and possibly tank the damage.
Akhhhhhh!
This is not to mention the War Mission synergy, which talks about increasing efficiency, which I can only take to mean more stability hits which means deeper CA triggers.
*wipes sweat*
I may be a vampiric spirit but dang this is terrifying. We are converting to active vampirism after millennia of a passive system like Kudzu(which is not completely passive to my understanding). The connotations for the major civ triggers are horrific. It sounds like if we did that, that we'd basically be kidnapping their people or at best making their rulers look so incompetent in their fear that people leave of their own volition. But personally, I think the first is more likely than the second.
This bumped Terrify on to my Scary Shit the Ymaryn Can Do List, which was formerly only populated by Exterminatus and Creative Farming.
Can we not try this any time soon, except maybe against someone we really hate?
As our resident Mad Scientist who formalized the Exterminatus, I shall be working on incorporating this into a new and even more horrifying thing. An upgrade to the Exterminatus if you will. May Crow rest my soul.
Hmm?
Hmmmmm...
It's Alucard again. When did that last happen...?
Ah! Oh my.
Welp. Good news guys, the last time this particular video was used it was after <Fey mood> and we had killed all the Nomads in a 1000 mile radius. Then the other time something similar was used was when we got our iron dude.
Something cray cray happened.
Hmm... That is surprisingly accurate to what we did with Phygrif.
Note to self: Be careful taking Ymaryn on walks.
So I was thinking as I went into the blissful arms of Sleep about our issues.
There are basically two versions that I'm seeing of what we want to do next:
1. We stay on Offense policy and slightly slow boat the Palace, handling various other things as they come like mid turns.
or
2. We switch to Megasupport and prosecute whatever war we are in while our provinces build the Palace.
So the crux of this issue as I see it is that if we are in a two front war(might not be a thing with the new AN Alucard WoG), it is better to stay in Offense. And the reason for this is that we as the King have difficulty targeting two enemies. We can with some finagling do it but it's basically throwing secondaries for the most part, which may not be enough.
As to a direct comparison of 1 and 2:
1 means we can fight off multiple enemies, focus on the mega, but have to accept that the provinces may spend resources inconveniently i.e see them spending 2 Wealth recently.
2 means we can finish the mega quicker, but have to focus on the war, provinces are going to generate resources more than they spend them in the mid run.
There are probably other factors which I can't remember or have slipped my grasp but that's how I see it. And the way I support them is: If in a two front war, take 1. If not in a two front war, take 2.
On to other things I have discovered something rather *Ahem* terrifying.
I think someone has already talked about this, but I don't remember so I'll bring it up cause I think it is important.
Note the bolded. Especially note the "can cause major civilizations to lose Stability," bit.
I realized when I woke up that this Stability drop means we can preform Targeted CA drains restricted to one country, or wholesale begin absorbing minor civs. I'll repeat that.
Targeted. Single victim. CA drains.
And we have a chance to negate the loss of stability on our end if it is one stability hit only. So we can start directly leaching +2 Economy from one civ and possibly tank the damage.
Akhhhhhh!
This is not to mention the War Mission synergy, which talks about increasing efficiency, which I can only take to mean more stability hits which means deeper CA triggers.
*wipes sweat*
I may be a vampiric spirit but dang this is terrifying. We are converting to active vampirism after millennia of a passive system like Kudzu(which is not completely passive to my understanding). The connotations for the major civ triggers are horrific. It sounds like if we did that, that we'd basically be kidnapping their people or at best making their rulers look so incompetent in their fear that people leave of their own volition. But personally, I think the first is more likely than the second.
This bumped Terrify on to my Scary Shit the Ymaryn Can Do List, which was formerly only populated by Exterminatus and Creative Farming.
Can we not try this any time soon, except maybe against someone we really hate?
As our resident Mad Scientist who formalized the Exterminatus, I shall be working on incorporating this into a new and even more horrifying thing. An upgrade to the Exterminatus if you will. May Crow rest my soul.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
@Malevolo probably mostly tracking dogs, if any. I imagine that most Blackbirds don't particularly use them, otherwise, as they would hurt their ability to move silently. But guards/families would have use for hefty guard dogs (probably mixed with street mutts, but tending larger), war dogs are a thing, and hunters would use a mix of tracking from the Blackbirds and guard dogs from the warriors/family lineages of particularly keen or loyal specimens that leak a bit into the public but are mostly traded internally.
Personally, I'd save terrify for, mm, enforcing international norms - so long as we're not using it to directly benefit ourselves, doing it instead of a war mission to make something stop is probably less likely to trigger forced retaliation, and so limited leaves the civilizations we'd prefer to have peaceful relations with a means to avoid us pointing it their way.
The problem being that the only way for other civs to tell that they can dodge that way is for us to accumulate a history of using Terrify, which is questionable practice in the first place, so I'm not in any rush to try it out.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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Un.
*rubs forehead, drinks Schweppes, has worried sweat*
It's a decent idea, but aside from the problem you bring up, it runs into an issue I call Xianxia Power Rules.
<Whereby it is only the strong Cultivators that can make and enforce rules that favor them>
Which may or may not include the ability to be merciful since they are strong enough not to care, as an offhand tangent.
Anyway off tangent, What I am getting at is that we would probably have to be the dominant power in order to have international rules we care to enforce with Terrify become a thing.
Now, using Terrify as a warning? A "Stop. Right Now. Before this escalates," measure might be worthwhile since it can avoid war, which in the long run is good. But any such situation we need to carefully consider, for all the attendant narrative connotations we already knew, and the added ones with CA that I realized. I'd treat it as the step right before we commit to war.
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- Location
- Huezil
Them we have something probably similar to Mastiffs, because they are good at tracking, guarding, and killing (roman war dogs were similar to the Napolitan mastiff, Beautiful beast). Matiffs fit all the criteria you pointed and they are considered one of the oldest breeds, there's some information they started on Assyria sixth century before the common era.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Observe what I think is this beautiful beastie you mention. (had to go look up adorable pictures after that epiphany)
I think those are Napolitans.
E: Excuse me while I go de-stress in SV's Adorable pics thread.
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The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
SO MAJESTIC
- Location
- USA
You fool these are the best
- Pronouns
- They/Them
My impression is that Terrify would be ineffective against, say, the Swamp People and the Thunder Horse, since they know we can't project enough force to hit their cities. The Thunder Speakers and the Highland Kingdom, on the other hand...
- Location
- Huezil
This is the actual napolitan masttiff, that thing you posted is for "beauty" contest.
Who came from this:
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- Location
- madison
Your assuming they interact in a way that works out for us. The system seems to have narrative impact trumps mechanics, so using terrify to get people to run to us might not work all that well. So if the stab drop comes from us making ourselves seem scary (thus less safe to run to) then we are likely to get fewer immigrant's.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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Ooh cool.
This is the actual napolitan masttiff, that thing you posted is for "beauty" contest
That too. Yet another reason.
This is why I said kidnapping them is straight up more likely. We can't not take in people when a neighbor has a stab drop, so in light of that, I would say that in this narrative is a very dark form of CA. We technically already did something like I am talking about when we sacked Xohyr and took "refugees". So my thinking is that when we take people in automatically via CA due to the Terrify caused Stab drop, we are going to be doing more of those "refugees". We can be terrifying by abducting people from their homes to become "refugees".
I will give you that the amounts of people may be less than in a standard CA trigger, but I doubt it would be enough to mechanically make a difference.
But, as this is a narrative interpretation it is subjective so at this point I am only purposing a possible interaction that I can see. We'd need to take the action to see what would happen.
Behold! The true King of Dogs!
On a very different note, I can't help but feel that within a millennium or so, trying to take Ymaryn clay will be suicide. After all, we're training our trees to drop lots and lots of branches and be very good at having their seeds survive fires...
Our Stalingrad would not be in a broken city, but a raging inferno! With attendant mudslides, rain, and rampant disease.
On a very different note, I can't help but feel that within a millennium or so, trying to take Ymaryn clay will be suicide. After all, we're training our trees to drop lots and lots of branches and be very good at having their seeds survive fires...
Our Stalingrad would not be in a broken city, but a raging inferno! With attendant mudslides, rain, and rampant disease.
We are Divine Stewards. Under us, the lands flourish! Without us... well.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Yes, massages are fantastic. Please, send your friends a massage, to show how much you care about them.Behold! The true King of Dogs!
On a very different note, I can't help but feel that within a millennium or so, trying to take Ymaryn clay will be suicide. After all, we're training our trees to drop lots and lots of branches and be very good at having their seeds survive fires...
Our Stalingrad would not be in a broken city, but a raging inferno! With attendant mudslides, rain, and rampant disease.
(real talk though, if we ever get to the point where people take Ymaryn clay we're going to have a death spiral to worry about)
Derp. Slow hour.
Another very interesting article from Low Tech Magazine(seriously, it's a goldmine!) on industrial wind power development.
Policy recommendation for the Ymaryn would probably be to invest heavily in the development of wind technology rather than putting all investments into steam power and heat engines.
Edit:
Otherwise, wind power technology get left behind. Also, it's important to note that we shouldn't convert all form of energy to electricity, because energy conversion reduce efficiency. If you can, use the kinetic energy to do work directly instead of converting kinetic energy into electrical energy which then get converted back to kinetic energy again.
Another very interesting article from Low Tech Magazine(seriously, it's a goldmine!) on industrial wind power development.
Policy recommendation for the Ymaryn would probably be to invest heavily in the development of wind technology rather than putting all investments into steam power and heat engines.
Edit:
Otherwise, wind power technology get left behind. Also, it's important to note that we shouldn't convert all form of energy to electricity, because energy conversion reduce efficiency. If you can, use the kinetic energy to do work directly instead of converting kinetic energy into electrical energy which then get converted back to kinetic energy again.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Interesting.
They obviously have multiple similar uses with the water mill, I wonder if they might work well in the middle of the Lowlands where there may be less water.
