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Paths of Civilization

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Kiba said:
We need an engineering corp. The kind that build fortifications in fields and do siege warfare.
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Huh...you know, on the subject of siege warfare, i'm a little surprised we didn't get an action to build more siege hammers; they're expensive enough for even a handful to qualify as a full action, and they're powerful enough they should count as a proper unit especially since they would likely "come with" some heavy infantry for the initial assault once the gate goes down... @Academia Nut while i doubt we'd take it in the near future, is that something we'd be able to do at some point? Also, is the Hammer that broke Xoh open part of hte Red Banner, or part of our main forces, and is it actually being deployed at all? ...in particular did the Highland kingdom see it enough to have an idea what it is and how it works?
 
I really hope we won't be in a situation any time soon where we need multiple battering rams simultaneously...
 
Abby Normal said:
Huh...you know, on the subject of siege warfare, i'm a little surprised we didn't get an action to build more siege hammers; they're expensive enough for even a handful to qualify as a full action, and they're powerful enough they should count as a proper unit especially since they would likely "come with" some heavy infantry for the initial assault once the gate goes down... @Academia Nut while i doubt we'd take it in the near future, is that something we'd be able to do at some point? Also, is the Hammer that broke Xoh open part of hte Red Banner, or part of our main forces, and is it actually being deployed at all? ...in particular did the Highland kingdom see it enough to have an idea what it is and how it works?
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It's a big stick, you have men pick it up and swing it. It aient exactly a hallmark of complication. Once someone does it, everyone can.

Sure different woodwork and metal work techniques and applications would drastically change the effectiveness. But the core concept is the same.
 
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maximillian said:
It's a big stick, you have men pick it up and swing it. It aient exactly a hallmark of complication. Once someone does it, everyone can.

Sure different woodwork and metal work techniques and applications would drastically change the effectiveness. But the core is the same.
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It's more than a stick; it included fortifications to protect the operators, suspension so they could put their full force into it, and concealment of the details from the defenders.
 
Abby Normal said:
Huh...you know, on the subject of siege warfare, i'm a little surprised we didn't get an action to build more siege hammers; they're expensive enough for even a handful to qualify as a full action, and they're powerful enough they should count as a proper unit especially since they would likely "come with" some heavy infantry for the initial assault once the gate goes down... @Academia Nut while i doubt we'd take it in the near future, is that something we'd be able to do at some point? Also, is the Hammer that broke Xoh open part of hte Red Banner, or part of our main forces, and is it actually being deployed at all? ...in particular did the Highland kingdom see it enough to have an idea what it is and how it works?
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I can't think of any reason as to why the HK would have seen our battering ram, since Ork King used it on the Xoh, which is on the opposite side of the Lowlands, and the fact that we didn't siege any of the HK lands, making it a pointless decision to send it down there.

I can't think of any reason for our provinces to use it against the HK, and I also don't see any reason for us to use it in our current war, since I'm pretty sure the Swamp Folk don't have a True City and the TH have their cities outside of our logistical reach.
 
maximillian said:
Bungie provides more exotic ewes though.
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Always!



You know, there is one bit that keeps sticking with me as we talk about our army.

From Salty McSaltShaker of the Hathatyn way back during Rulwyna I.


Academia Nut said:
The Hathatyn king sat across the rough table from the delegation from the Northerners, drumming his fingers on the wood in annoyance. His grandfather had started this great quest to reclaim the former territories of their ancestors, and now that it had come down to it he was going to have to cede the majority of the north-eastern river valley to outsiders. The Highlanders would keep their mountain passes and the Northerns would keep the river mouth, forcing the abandonment of much of the territory north of the pass to the western river valley. It was, honestly, what his grandfather should have done, to pursue the reclamation and resettlement of the western river valley system over fighting with the settled groups in the north. Still, the point that if they hadn't tried to dislodge the Northerners and Highlanders they would have entrenched and been impossible to root out, and the loss of the north-eastern river valley system would be long term catastrophic.

It was, however, rather galling to be doing the negotiating with the half wild barbarian woman seated across from him, her hair luridly dyed and kept oddly. The young creature had been a known problem for years before she had disappeared, only to return with this fresh push. Flanking her was the chief commander of the band of maniacs who had forced the turn around, and the trader who seemed to have organized them all and facilitated this meeting. The three of them were a potent force together, and there were rumours of other relationships between them. Whore. In any case, while he had fought hard, the king now had to agree to rein in his warriors and limit his ambitions because of them. Part of it was in being outfought, part of it was because if he didn't stop soon he would run out of warriors to protect against other threats - not because of the fighting, but because of the way the land had become saturated with water that then lead to a proliferation of miasma and the demons of plague that came with. The other kingdoms, they had deeper reserves to draw upon and it would be foolish to not accept their calls for peace while they were still not too onerous.

He would turn to the west and south and work on the job of reunification there, while also dealing with the disease running rampant over all lands. If he was lucky, he would never have to deal with the Northerners or Highlanders again, and it would be his grandson or the like who would one day turn back to deal with them.

Bloody Northerners with their strange weapons and ways. Having a horse riding, promiscuous whore leading warriors? Madness, just madness that would cost them dearly one day.
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The question of where would he have seen a right an proppa steppe barbarian nomad so him calling us half-wild barbarians is a bit unstable stands, but it is interesting that we seem to be absorbing horde tactics by osmosis and tailoring them for our culture.

To the Lowlanders, and especially the Xoh, they must be getting flash backs to when the Thunder Horse Nomads attacked 700ish years ago in game.

It's rather intriguing to see.


maximillian said:
It's a big stick, you have men pick it up and swing it. It aient exactly a hallmark of complication. Once someone does it, everyone can.

Sure different woodwork and metal work techniques and applications would drastically change the effectiveness. But the core concept is the same.
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Concept of a |RAM| -> |A GREAT BIG WOODEN SCHLONG| :V

Heh. Continue fair sheepy. Continue being amusing. *applause*
 
Raichu1972 said:
I can't think of any reason as to why the HK would have seen our battering ram, since Ork King used it on the Xoh, which is on the opposite side of the Lowlands, and the fact that we didn't siege any of the HK lands, making it a pointless decision to send it down there.

I can't think of any reason for our provinces to use it against the HK, and I also don't see any reason for us to use it in our current war, since I'm pretty sure the Swamp Folk don't have a True City and the TH have their cities outside of our logistical reach.
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We can't use it against the HK because they don't have cities for us to reach, unless we keep marching.

And yes, ditto for the SF and the TH.
 
Hey, we didn't actually destroy the wall, did we? Could we claim it and get the per-turn diplomacy bonus? Or tear it down and honorably inter the skulls? @Academia Nut?
 
ThrawnCA said:
It should recover soon. Or we can expand the salterns.
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Just need 5 secondary actions costing large amounts of econ to recoup our Wealth, then?
That's why we build trails and start integrating our subordinates for big Econ infusions :).
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This, meanwhile, costs large chunks of Wealth that we're draining each turn.

That's what I mean, though. With the megaproject and the Tax kerfuffle we're losing both of these things, when we need Econ to boost Wealth or Wealth to boost Econ. We also only have 2 secondaries a turn to somehow fix this (Policy is on Offense to deal with the two wars we're in, which is probably wise to keep), and that's if more issues don't come up (they will; they always do).
Ah, but once the Palace is usable, we should be in a strong position to take on more provinces, through integration or simple expansion, which will give huge stat boosts.
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Taking the time to integrate the Stallions or Hats before trying to tackle Taxes is basically necessary, but then we're going to end up with a bunch of issues from trying to swallow a march bigger than our own head, which is a further drain on actions.

It's going to be a trying couple of centuries.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I can't think of any reason as to why the HK would have seen our battering ram, since Ork King used it on the Xoh, which is on the opposite side of the Lowlands, and the fact that we didn't siege any of the HK lands, making it a pointless decision to send it down there.

I can't think of any reason for our provinces to use it against the HK, and I also don't see any reason for us to use it in our current war, since I'm pretty sure the Swamp Folk don't have a True City and the TH have their cities outside of our logistical reach.
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I dont think its likely either, but i could see us having had it ready to assault the walled HK cities in the west, close enough to the front that when we got pushed back the HK could see it, or maybe that we got started on a siege in the west but had to fall back.

ThrawnCA said:
It's more than a stick; it included fortifications to protect the operators, suspension so they could put their full force into it, and concealment of the details from the defenders.
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Yeah, iirc we burnt out our "use a mill to hammer ore" innovation chance on it, so just the mechanical challenge of "how do we transfer force in the right way for a team of men to repeatedly use it?" is nontrivial.

ThrawnCA said:
Hey, we didn't actually destroy the wall, did we? Could we claim it and get the per-turn diplomacy bonus? Or tear it down and honorably inter the skulls? @Academia Nut?
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I need to get driving to an appointment, so i can't quote it, but check back; we got the "destroyed a wonder" bonus from that, so we got fires hot enough to destroy the Wall of Bones.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Are you voting for the arsenal?

ETA No, no you are not. Want to change that?
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Actually, we want farmers and stonemasons and carpenters. Those folks either work the step farms or involved in construction and civil engineering trades.

If we want to siege a town, we might build a wall around it, or build a ramp up to them, or divert whole rivers. Otherwise, we might be called on to build fortifications, bridges, and earthworks to defend a particular area.

The best part? They can be turned to building roads in peacetime.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Hey, we didn't actually destroy the wall, did we? Could we claim it and get the per-turn diplomacy bonus? Or tear it down and honorably inter the skulls? @Academia Nut?
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I would think the fire did a number on it's structural integrity. It might still be intact-ish, though I kinda doubt it with the Wonder Destroyed message we got when we killed them.

Kiba said:
Actually, we want farmers and stonemasons and carpenters. Those folks either work the step farms or involved in construction and civil engineering trades.

If we want to siege a town, we might build a wall around it, or build a ramp up to them, or divert whole rivers. Otherwise, we might be called on to build fortifications, bridges, and earthworks to defend a particular area.

The best part? They can be turned to building roads in peacetime.
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Ahh yeah! Sounds like those Farming Companies that bluefur87 keeps talking about and which I keep thinking up ways they can do "creative farming practices" which end up fucking their employers in the long run.
 
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Abby Normal said:
Huh...you know, on the subject of siege warfare, i'm a little surprised we didn't get an action to build more siege hammers; they're expensive enough for even a handful to qualify as a full action, and they're powerful enough they should count as a proper unit especially since they would likely "come with" some heavy infantry for the initial assault once the gate goes down... @Academia Nut while i doubt we'd take it in the near future, is that something we'd be able to do at some point? Also, is the Hammer that broke Xoh open part of hte Red Banner, or part of our main forces, and is it actually being deployed at all? ...in particular did the Highland kingdom see it enough to have an idea what it is and how it works?
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Terrify
 
ThrawnCA said:
It's more than a stick; it included fortifications to protect the operators, suspension so they could put their full force into it, and concealment of the details from the defenders.
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As I said different woodwork applications.

And seeing as inclined walls, buttresses, crenellations, integrated towers, forward segments, moats, portcullis, and other such innovations are millenia away.
A simple tree trunk being swung would work quite well, since once you get to the Base of the wall, yer damn hard to hit.

As for getting there and holding, shields would do it.

Plain and simple handheld trunk was used historically, it was a bit more costly in lives lost, and far less efficient. But thats only a detremint if you care about that in the first place.
 
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I agree that people holding shields above their comrades heads while they're swinging a wooden trunk is possible, and that if the shields are covered with bronze it would be difficult to set the people below on fire by pouring oil and melted pitch onto them then throwing down torches.
 
Umi-san said:
I agree that people holding shields above their comrades heads while they're swinging a wooden trunk is possible, and that if the shields are covered with bronze it would be difficult to set the people below on fire by pouring oil and melted pitch onto them then throwing down torches.
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You need to invent incendiary defence measures first though. And then have large enough olive production for oil, or tar pits, or naptha wells.

@Academia Nut, have they been invented yet? And do we or the lowlands have any?
 
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maximillian said:
You need to invent incendiary defence measures first though. And then have large enough olive production for oil, or tar pits, or naptha wells.

@Academia Nut, have they been invented yet? And do we or the lowlands have any?
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Hey. Was heated sand ever used in IRL history?

Like take sand that is heated in a kiln and then drop it straight over the wall?

We should be able to do this with our knowledge of glass.
 
BungieONI said:
Hey. Was heated sand ever used in IRL history?

Like take sand that is heated in a kiln and then drop it straight over the wall?

We should be able to do this with our knowledge of glass.
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It was used whenever it was viable, but it was easier to counter than fire, and far less deadly. Terrific morale destroyer thought. Also it attacks flesh, the ram or ladder and the general area won't be affected and denied.
 
Locking in as...

[X][Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Leave extra room for Gardens and Great Hall Expansion

That last one is a compromise option for the near inclusion of the other two. For 1 extra Econ but no additional actions a bit extra room will be left so that Gardens and an Expansion can be built more cheaply in the future.
 
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