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Paths of Civilization

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PrimalShadow said:
What is this LTE people speak of?
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Long term econ. LTE = Econ + Econ expansion.

It's a useful number because almost all of our econ generation and spending actions don't affect it if we have enough True cities, because they recycle the econ into econ expansion. We can increase it with things like Black Soil and More Boats, or decrease it by taking up land with Vineyards.

Roughly speaking, LTE represents the amount of land we have available to farm beyond the starvation point. Black soil makes the land more productive (so we effectively have more) and More Boats allows us to employ farmers as fishers to produce the food instead (with almost identical impact to extra land.)

Econ represents how much of that land is currently being farmed, and Econ Expansion is how much of it is lying fallow currently. Expand Econ, the action, puts more land under the plow, converting it from Econ Expansion to Econ. Spending Econ is diverting some of the excess farmers to do something else (say, drive Chariots), and leaving their land fallow.
 
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McLuvin said:
yandere
Contrary to the popular belief that it is the opposite of tsundere, it describes an anime character who is either psychotic or violent or both, and shows affection to the main character. Became a popular moe genre after the airing of the last episode of School Days. Other yandere characters include Ryuuguu Rena from Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni series.
I wish there was a yandere girl who would love me so much she'll want to cleave my head with a hachet.

Urban Dictionary entry on what a Yandere, or what a 'March-Kun' would look like
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I dispute this and riposte with:

Kuudere
An anime/manga slang term for a character that is cold, blunt, cynical, and pretty much doesn't care if her beloved dies. That's what she is on the outside but she is actually caring and nice on the inside.

Differs from tsundere since tsundere is when the character frequently runs hot and cold between tsun and dere. Kuudere is when the character only occasionally shows her caring side.
C.C. - The kuudere of Code Geass

Since she/he has sent Trade Missions to unknown Nomads, twice, they are obviously not Yandere material. They would have gone all Saw on them if that was the case. We can get most of the dere, but everyone else gets the kuu.

E: I have more ammo too.
 
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Umi-san said:
ST is basically already 2x the size of any other province, and usually more than 3x.

However, we'll be consolidating provinces in the near future. This means that we'll have multiple equally giant non-militaristic states that will oppose this military coup and whose economic power would make a civil war unviable.
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We have about 9 provinces, with two cities providing enough manpower to drown the ST in bodies if they ever got uppity, they were never an issue despite being the size of 3 provinces and more militaristic. They have lost a lot of thier ability to be a threat even more recently as well via the employment of two mercenary companies as the basis for our standing military.

I'm rejecting the idea of combining several Marches into a 'Super March' as it is a horrible idea
 
pblur said:
Long term econ. LTE = Econ + Econ expansion.

It's a useful number because almost all of our econ generation and spending actions don't affect it if we have enough True cities, because they recycle the econ into econ expansion. We can increase it with things like Black Soil and More Boats, or decrease it by taking up land with Vineyards or Forest.

Roughly speaking, LTE represents the amount of land we have available to farm beyond the starvation point. Black soil makes the land more productive (so we effectively have more) and More Boats allows us to employ farmers as fishers to produce the food instead (with almost identical impact to extra land.)

Econ represents how much of that land is currently being farmed, and Econ Expansion is how much of it is lying fallow currently. Expand Econ, the action, puts more land under the plow, converting it from Econ Expansion to Econ. Spending Econ is diverting some of the excess farmers to do something else (say, drive Chariots), and leaving their land fallow.
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I'm not sure how useful a stat that is to track. From what I've seen, even without any effort in raising it, we get lots of option which grant net Econ+EconExpansion; see the Hatriver options this last update as an example. At two true cities I find it difficult to imagine that we will be feeling a significant deficit in this anytime remotely soon.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm not sure how useful a stat that is to track. From what I've seen, even without any effort in raising it, we get lots of option which grant net Econ+EconExpansion; see the Hatriver options this last update as an example. At two true cities I find it difficult to imagine that we will be feeling a significant deficit in this anytime remotely soon.
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We had a fairly severe deficit of it less than ten turns ago...
 
Do we know how far the cap on martial would rise if we absorb the ST?

They are AFAIK pretty big, so the martial cap should increase as well.

Especially if we grab some other peripherals first to create a bigger buffer.
 
pblur said:
We had a fairly severe deficit of it less than ten turns ago...
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And when was our True City formed?



Anyway. I suppose depending on what happens in the future, it is conceivable that the stat will be important at some point - but given that integrating our peripheral states provides LTE, I don't see us having a serious deficit of it anytime remotely soon.
 
McLuvin said:
We have about 9 provinces, with two cities providing enough manpower to drown the ST in bodies if they ever got uppity, they were never an issue despite being the size of 3 provinces and more militaristic. They have lost a lot of thier ability to be a threat even more recently as well via the employment of two mercenary companies as the basis for our standing military.

I'm rejecting the idea of combining several Marches into a 'Super March' as it is a horrible idea
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Then why are you worrying about a super march? We'll have 4 megaprovinces that can drown them in bodies.
 
Umi-san said:
Then why are you worrying about a super march? We'll have 4 megaprovinces that can drown them in bodies.
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A Super March would have three times the resources, three times the militarism and would be in a far better position to apply diplomatic pressure, we've seen that ST chiefs can become king, a Super March Chief would be able to become king a lot more often and if he's refused he will be more capable to force the issue.

Just because you can handle a slightly aggressive dog doesn't mean you should get yourself a pet lion
BungieONI said:
Plus our two mercs.
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I'm hoping that when the next Great Nomad War comes in their tribe will get wrecked and we can generously take them in (aka steal them and make them come under our direct control giving us the Red Banner Company and Heavenly Hawk Company)
 
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McLuvin said:
A Super March would have three times the resources, three times the militarism and would be in a far better position to apply diplomatic pressure, we've seen that ST chiefs can become king, a Super March Chief would be able to become king a lot more often and if he's refused he will be more capable to force the issue.

Just because you can handle a slightly aggressive dog doesn't mean you should get yourself a pet lion

I'm hoping that when the next Great Nomad War comes in their tribe will get wrecked and we can generously take them in (aka steal them and make them come under our direct control giving us the Red Banner Company and Heavenly Hawk Company)
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Three of a kind bonus?
 
PrimalShadow said:
And when was our True City formed?



Anyway. I suppose depending on what happens in the future, it is conceivable that the stat will be important at some point - but given that integrating our peripheral states provides LTE, I don't see us having a serious deficit of it anytime remotely soon.
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It was 4 turns ago we had 11 LTE; it was impossible to even max econ out. A single true city was nowhere near enough to keep constant LTE without expanding.

Edit: and we debated what to do about it for pages and pages. It was VERY relevant for decision making at that point.
 
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pblur said:
Yes please @Therealtahu . Though I'm definitely hoping for a double check from the mechanics giants (@Abby Normal , @notgreat and @bluefur87 I'm looking at you... :p )
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That kind of math is mostly notgreat's brain child. I'm personally morally opposed to just looking at stats to the point where I only accept his say so that things are more efficient.

Of course efficiency tends to matter less when we need to do things like getting stability now or need to take certain actions for their narrative effects, such as things we know reduce corruption. It is also important to remember that narrative is a mechanic in this game, just not an easily tracked one and one we frequently have to wave our hands around to figure out what it actually means. In general that's the mechanics I spend my time focusing on, the fuzzy ones with not exactly known or revealed effects. We have seen Econ Slots jump up several times, for example, after we gained a major innovation from study health several times, implying that certain techs in study health can give us more econ slots. There is also the idea that certain techs and buildings can increase the limit of how many econ slots a true city can have before defecting. We saw it go up when we built the wall for it, for instance.

You can think of me as the person who tries to figure out the unknown rather than analyzing the known. The thought is appreciated though.

BungieONI said:
I don't think we even have complex instruments.

We just have boring singing and woodwinds most likely. Woe how we are bereft of the good things.
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I doubt we have woodwinds or string instruments. Even our singing might be crap.
 
pblur said:
It was VERY relevant for decision making at that point.
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We had a whole lot more actions that took 2+ economy at the time; currency unlocking Wealth has significantly reduced the issue.

I'll note that with two True Cities, we should probably be looking into using More Boats for our econ slot needs, because we want the boat tech advances anyway.
 
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McLuvin said:
We have about 9 provinces, with two cities providing enough manpower to drown the ST in bodies if they ever got uppity, they were never an issue despite being the size of 3 provinces and more militaristic. They have lost a lot of thier ability to be a threat even more recently as well via the employment of two mercenary companies as the basis for our standing military.
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One mercenary company, currently sent to Thunder Speaker lands.

Not that I think the ST would ever rebel or whatever. Just saying, that's not much of a check on ST power.
 
McLuvin said:
A Super March would have three times the resources, three times the militarism and would be in a far better position to apply diplomatic pressure, we've seen that ST chiefs can become king, a Super March Chief would be able to become king a lot more often and if he's refused he will be more capable to force the issue.

Just because you can handle a slightly aggressive dog doesn't mean you should get yourself a pet lion

I'm hoping that when the next Great Nomad War comes in their tribe will get wrecked and we can generously take them in (aka steal them and make them come under our direct control giving us the Red Banner Company and Heavenly Hawk Company)
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The super March is unlikely to be made up of marches that are all equal in size to the ST, and it is likely that our population will be outpacing that march's growth. Finally, they're going to be used to fighting with horses on open plains. Everywhere else is forested hills.

You seem to be assuming that they're magically going to grow without any change on our side. This is unlikely.

Remember that kings are elected from among and by the chiefs of other provinces. A super march will have less votes than three affiliated marches would, and it is thus likely that a march or marquess would become king less often.

Having a single march rather than three thus seems to offer no notable increase in danger while freeing up slots.

More likely than the proposed supermarch, however, and preferable to me, is that we'll establish an east March, a west March, and then integrate the ST.
 
Candesce said:
We had a whole lot more actions that took 2+ economy at the time; currency unlocking Wealth has significantly reduced the issue.
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Now we might start having to worry about L.T.W:


Definition of L.T.W in Old Ymaryn:

1 the greatest demon in service to the Great TAXOGORGON.

1.1 the cries of the Far East Salt people as they drown in salt from the skies.

2 Current wealth plus wealth costs each turn plus per turn income.


Joy.
 
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I prefer Colonies to Marches where possible and have those colonies backed by mercenary armies.

While taking all the steppes is practically impossible, taking a big enough chunk so we can dictate from where nomads have to come from is possible. We could only hold around river systems, but those are all thats useful anyway.

So if we can hire nomads to kill other nomads? Just gravy for me as long as we avoid Romes mistakes.
 
BungieONI said:
Now we might start having to worry about L.T.W:
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More salterns, then.

Or we could overflow Art; Art Patronage gives more art than it costs in wealth and econ, and it gets us a prestige in the bargain.

But mostly more salterns when we can afford them. Or dominating more forms of trade.

Did we need glassware for proper transport of honey? Inventing apiaries sounds like a really good idea, right now.
 
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