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Paths of Civilization

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ThrawnCA said:
Less relevant since Wealth is not limited by slots. But it's wise to keep an eye on our income, certainly, and especially to be prepared at any time for mercs to come home.
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And we can only thank Crow that the TAXOGORGON's clutches did not reach far enough into our reality to make such slots.

If we can stay in the black I will be incredibly happy. *looks at America's trillion plus debt*

Candesce said:
More salterns, then.

Or we could overflow Art; Art Patronage gives more art than it costs in wealth and econ, and it gets us a prestige in the bargain.

But mostly more salterns when we can afford them. Or dominating more forms of trade.

Did we need glassware for proper transport of honey? Inventing apiaries sounds like a really good idea, right now.
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More salterns, more trade posts to pair with them and get really exotic goods, dominance in all the goods since we can do that with impunity.

Glass is helpful for wine transport, it does not go bad as fast. Honey I do not know about.
 
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DakkaMania said:
So if we can hire nomads to kill other nomads?
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Since they're quite decentralised, yes, we probably can. Eventually, the number of nomads defending us will exceed the number attacking, and we shall be the Nomad Immunodeficiency Virus.

(If that's a sensitive topic for anyone, my apologies; PM and I shall delete.)
 
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Kiba said:
Hmm. It might be possible that this is the beginning of the Bronze Age collapse?
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It's a good equivalent, though the timing is a bit off because that was the Late Bronze Age collapse when we are really only in the Early Bronze Age, but AN has stated that this was not a scripted event but rather a interpreted consequence of rolling crap on our environmental rolls for several turns. He felt the dice were trying to tell him something so he obliged.
 
I know people have researched the chaos that will occur if the lowlands dry out. This crisis seems like the opposite, though, flooding and disease. Do we know anything about what that will do?
 
ThrawnCA said:
I know people have researched the chaos that will occur if the lowlands dry out. This crisis seems like the opposite, though, flooding and disease. Do we know anything about what that will do?
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What would the ecological effects be of increased rainfall in the lowlands for a permanent period?
It's basically ecologically just like the Fertile Crescent just without sand, how would a mass increase in rainfall permanently affect that landscape?
 
McLuvin said:
What would the ecological effects be of increased rainfall in the lowlands for a permanent period?
It's basically ecologically just like the Fertile Crescent just without sand, how would a mass increase in rainfall permanently affect that landscape?
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The way the flood plain worked would be all fucked up for one as rivers overflow their banks and probably shift course if it goes for long enough.

We might see new species of grasses which require more rain moving in and surviving, as well as probable rise in tree growth and density.

Some of the problems though are standing water collecting in the dips of the plain(since they are not actually completely flat) and where the rivers break banks and overflow. Also increased humidity, making temperatures worse and making health problems even harder, as well as mold. Lot's a mold.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.
 
BungieONI said:
Glass is helpful for wine transport, it does not go bad as fast. Honey I do not know about.
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I've said it before, glass is horribly expensive at the time. It will remain so until the industrial revolution.

The value of glass massively outstrips the value of wine, even wine that spoils slower.

Which is emphatically not the case. Even today, wine is stored for 6 months to two years in wooden barrels (Barriques, which hold 225 litres).

The reason wines went bad in antiquity is that they left them exposed to their air as they kept withdrawing small amounts, increasing air exposure of what was left, and mirobiological factors that can't be solved until the mid 20th century.

Glass won't change a thing for either. If it is somewhat clear glass it actually gets worse as light also causes some changes in the wine, decreasing quality (which is why wine bottles are usually dark green or brown). Transparent glass is only used when it's assumed the wine is consumed within half a year.

Before modern filtration techniques, transporting wine over large distances always produced losses. Some would spoil. That was the case as recently as the early 1900s.

Just accept it.
 
BungieONI said:
The way the flood plain worked would be all fucked up for one as rivers overflow their banks and probably shift course if it goes for long enough.

We might see new species of grasses which require more rain moving in and surviving, as well as probable rise in tree growth and density.

Some of the problems though are standing water collecting in the dips of the plain(since they are not actually completely flat) and where the rivers break banks and overflow. Also increased humidity, making temperatures worse and making health problems even harder, as well as mold. Lot's a mold.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.
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Compare it to a geographical location for me please, to help me visually picture it.

Would it be like Italy? Or like middle America?
Sorry to be a bother but I would just like a comparison to help me picture how useful our armies would be in such an environment
 
DakkaMania said:
I've said it before, glass is horribly expensive at the time. It will remain so until the industrial revolution.

The value of glass massively outstrips the value of wine, even wine that spoils slower.

Which is emphatically not the case. Even today, wine is stored for 6 months to two years in wooden barrels (Barriques, which hold 225 litres).

The reason wines went bad in antiquity is that they left them exposed to their air as they kept withdrawing small amounts, increasing air exposure of what was left, and mirobiological factors that can't be solved until the mid 20th century.

Glass won't change a thing for either. If it is somewhat clear glass it actually gets worse as light also causes some changes in the wine, decreasing quality (which is why wine bottles are usually dark green or brown). Transparent glass is only used when it's assumed the wine is consumed within half a year.

Before modern filtration techniques, transporting wine over large distances always produced losses. Some would spoil. That was the case as recently as the early 1900s.

Just accept it.
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Okay?

No need to get into my kimchi about it. :V
 
Even beyond this being the result of rolls instead of a (semi-)scripted crisis like i imagine a bronze age collapse equivalent would be, wikipedia notes that it took place "Between c. 1200 and 1150 BC", whereas we're still:
Academia Nut said:
About 2500 BC now
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...Mind, we are at about the right tech level for it, with our access to iron, which is interesting:
Academia Nut said:
Early to mid bronze age. About between 2700-2400 BC now, while the People's development is now moving closer to about 1200 -1000 BC in many places due to the access to iron.
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Of course, this could be what triggers Not!Earth's Late Bronze Age collapse, given that even if its a less terrible disaster, the tech level is worse, and where in the aftermath the iron age starts up early thanks to us :p
most likely though, this is "just" a localized disaster that shakes up politics...hopefully it cracks the HK up into a few pieces and finishes off the Thunder Horse. I expect the Xoh to survive in some way given they've survived enough to have AN liking them :p ...I wonder if they have a legacy for ridiculous recovery even, at this point? Something like "only breaks at -5 stab instead of -4"?
 
ThrawnCA said:
I know people have researched the chaos that will occur if the lowlands dry out. This crisis seems like the opposite, though, flooding and disease. Do we know anything about what that will do?
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Depends on how people have been farming. For us? We'd ultimately benefit, getting better tree lines and depending on where gets more rain, maybe even making inroads to the steppes. We'd have an increase in disease due to the increase in insects, which would be painful, but...

If people have been properly re-enforcing their land like we have (unlikely), then they'll see an increase in disease, which will be worse than us, but ultimately able to be dealt with, assuming they do nothing too stupid or someone comes along and econ sucks them out of existence. If they haven't been doing things to keep erosion down to a minimum? If what is happening here is more rain as opposed to rain becoming steady, then some possibilities include:
  • Mudslides: Not too sure how well step farming would prevent this, but forests would prevent it better, and I'm pretty sure we're the only ones doing that.
  • New Rivers: More rain in various areas means new rivers would form.
  • Stagnant pools of water: If there are some areas that don't have good drainage, stagnant pools of water could form. This would likely hold true for various parts of the lowlands, though these could later eventually overflow into new rivers.
  • More Flooding: River banks are going to flood and, well, this is hilarious because.
There three major disasters that would come about if we're just getting more rain along with our previous levels of flooding. Hills without sufficient trees will start seeing collapses (obviously leading people to proclaim glory to the mighty tree kingdom), increased stagnant bodies of water will cause disease outbreaks, and flooding of major rivers, which when looked at settlements will overflow into whatever waste people are keeping (because we told them to keep it outside of their cities), and flood said waste back into the cities. If the last happens the Xoh are basically dead, considering they are mono focused around a singular city that is especially vulnerable to this with its slums while simultaneously being at war with everyone.
 
McLuvin said:
how useful our armies would be in such an environment
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While i can't answer your actual question because its not at all my area of knowledge, i'll note that if the additional rainfall continues to cause major insect problems (and resulting diseases), we should definitely take study alchemy some more, to improve that "primitive insect repellant" in our tech list. It's likely that our iron armor/weapons and our advanced chariots/eventual horseriders would stop being our major advantages in war, and instead it would be our disease prevention and alchemy tech that would be the biggest advantage; an increase in stagnant water/marshes/swamps/etc would make war a lot more focused on "who is killed by the least disease" more than "who can kill the most enemies in combat"...i think at least?
 
McLuvin said:
Compare it to a geographical location for me please, to help me visually picture it.

Would it be like Italy? Or like middle America?
Sorry to be a bother but I would just like a comparison to help me picture how useful our armies would be in such an environment
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Right now it is I think a lot like the Great Plains. Lots of grass. Lots of grass. Lot's of grass.

The river tracks are probably forested in some form.


After this climate screwery we would see it probably spreading into a very large primeval forest in some parts, and lot's of small rivers everywhere. So maybe like... Oregon state or Washigton or like a cooler Amazon. Not sure really.


(not a climatologist or any other -ology that would really apply here)


Abby Normal said:
I wonder if they have a legacy for ridiculous recovery even, at this point? Something like "only breaks at -5 stab instead of -4"?
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Shadow of the Cockroach: Your people are tenacious and willing to muscle through any foe through sheer stubbornness. Can survive till -5 Stability.
 
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