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Paths of Civilization

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People are trying too hard to try and engender a decisive battle that would end the war with the ambush plan. That's not going to happen, Nomadic tribes are such a pain in the ass to fight because of their superior mobility and their ability to pick and choose when to engage and when to run.

And this guy knows it, he's not going to let himself be drawn into our territory when he can just use that chance to raid the shit out of our allies and then laugh in our faces.
 
Sivantic said:
[X] Social

Social Advancement is harder to achieve than the others

[X] Establish Annual Festival

Hot diggity, just what I wanted!

[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads

Quantity is a quality of its own.

[X] Stay home for the time being

We can't afford help.
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It could open up a new trading partner though. Even if it starts contact with us looking pretty weak.
 
[X] Martial

We do need military strength at this point.

[X] Establish Annual Festival

Celebrate good times come on! It also ingrains into collective memory the duty to safeguard the forests.

[X] Evacuate endangered settlements into the People's territory

The less settlements they get to raid, the better.

[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help

Gondor calls for aid...
 
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Deadly Snark said:
Festival would do that as well. Since Festivals are where people share and create songs and stories for a large audience.
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Reread what I wrote or re-examine what you wrote. Yes, I acknowledged that Festivals would give us songs and spoken stories. I'm saying that Shrines give us writing and drawing. Writing+drawing are not the same things as spoken stories+songs.
 
[X] Martial
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Evacuate endangered settlements into the People's territory
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help

This will be same strategy used against Hannibal, the same strategy that made Hannibal leave the Italian Peninsula, and paved the way to the destruction of Carthage in the subsequent war made by the Rome. Yeah, Romans had strife because of the abandonment, but used their Numidians allies to attack Carthage and create strife on their home territory, winch diverted resources from the war with Rome.

Anyway, dealing with this enemy will open the path for us recovering the territory abandoned, the way Rome made with Sicilly and Corsega and Sardinia.

Let's think this trough, and planning a ambush can open a path to a disaster like the Battle of Cannae - Wikipedia, think this trough people, because we are dealing with a seasoned stragist and tacticians, we need to win by attrition.
 
[X] Social
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help

We're capped at 3 social traits, so it has to edit not add to.

Establishing an annual festival is better because it increases art and culture, which are valuable in the long term. Expanding the holy place really won't do much; for all that the harmony aspects of the holy place tie well into fixing the forest as a system, it's unlikely to expand our grasp of writing because fixing the forest doesn't require much description beyond here is the person and this is what they did, which can be done with pictures.

If anything, it would be better to establish a new spiritual place that will be tied to the new holy forest. This would better tie our spiritual values to nature and the management thereof.
 
Umi-san said:
Establishing an annual festival is better because it increases art and culture, which are valuable in the long term. Expanding the holy place really won't do much; for all that the harmony aspects of the holy place tie well into fixing the forest as a system, it's unlikely to expand our grasp of writing because fixing the forest doesn't require much description beyond here is the person and this is what they did, which can be done with pictures.
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The sheer amount of things people did is enough to expand writing, and that's before someone gets the idea to record the other grand tales of the People in the largest centre of wisdom and knowledge available to them. They'll also go to a lot of effort in their pictures, more than they would for anything else, advancing us a great deal that way too. Expand Shrine will increase our art and culture, in a different but NOT lesser way to Annual Festival.
 
hylas240 said:
That's assuming he would allow his forces to be drawn to far into our territory. He already knows how good we are in our land, and specifically didn't want to fight us on our territory.

Edit:someone beat me to the punch :oops:
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Deadly Snark said:
You are assuming he'd fall for that when he explicitly thinks that fighting us in the Hills is as he said "Ehhhh, I don't want to", he would just let us draw our forces back and raid the absolute shit out of our allied settlements with impunity.
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Alectai said:
Precisely.

The only circumstance in which he attacks the hills is if he's convinced we've legitimately emptied them of soldiers, to the point where his loss of mobility doesn't stop him from murderraping his way through our core.

No other bait would possibly suffice, and even then, he's more likely to just attack the nearby settlements instead once we've committed to battle, because he really doesn't want to fight us in the hills.
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Do we know why he attacked our traders? He wants our wealth, and I doubt he will be satisfied with what he can get from the allied settlements. He seems to have beef with us, and it seems like he decided to do something about it. So I really don't think he will be content with simply taking out our allies.

[X] Spiritual
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Lure the nomads deeper into People controlled territory and launch a massive ambush
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help
 
But yeah, seriously, the Ambush plan is almost guaranteed to fail barring statistically unlikely events. We Know he doesn't want to fight us in the hills unless we've been bled white to the point where he could just march in and take what he wants.

When facing a strategic mastermind, you don't beat him by being sneaky, you beat him by weathering his attacks or just hitting him hard in a place that he can't deny battle. Except he's a fully mobile society, so he has no vitals that we can hit that he can't just fucking move out of the way of.

We should either stay the course, or fort up.

Ian Drash said:
Do we know why he attacked our traders? He wants our wealth, and I doubt he will be satisfied with what he can get from the allied settlements. He seems to have beef with us, and it seems like he decided to do something about it. So I really don't think he will be content with simply taking out our allies.

[X] Spiritual
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Lure the nomads deeper into People controlled territory and launch a massive ambush
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help
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He's not, stupid.

He won't walk into a situation where we hold all the cards, and he'd know that. He explicitly called our greatest advantage that we were 'Stubborn', so us withdrawing before we've been broken will make him smell a rat.

Again, they're beating us because every move they make is the perfect one thanks to hero unit, and so they're basically avoiding our defense efforts. Any time we catch them in a fight, we tend to win.
 
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Shard said:
Cue: Expand Forest spam spam SPAM
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Fear us for we are Elves The People!

[X] Martial
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Increase fortification around endangered settlements (Warning: Costs Econ at Econ 0)
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help
 
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Alectai said:
But yeah, seriously, the Ambush plan is almost guaranteed to fail barring statistically unlikely events. We Know he doesn't want to fight us in the hills unless we've been bled white to the point where he could just march in and take what he wants.

When facing a strategic mastermind, you don't beat him by being sneaky, you beat him by weathering his attacks or just hitting him hard in a place that he can't deny battle. Except he's a fully mobile society, so he has no vitals that we can hit that he can't just fucking move out of the way of.

We should either stay the course, or fort up.
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If people read a little about the Punic Wars, they would know that mine is the sound strategy.
 
Ian Drash said:
Do we know why he attacked our traders? He wants our wealth, and I doubt he will be satisfied with what he can get from the allied settlements. He seems to have beef with us, and it seems like he decided to do something about it. So I really don't think he will be content with simply taking out our allies.
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He wants our wealth, but he's not an greedy idiot. He knows that fighting us in the hills removes the weapon that allowed him to rule supreme and gives us the advantage. He's not going to risk defeat by being impatient when he can get wealth and glory just by raiding our allies to death.
 
[X] Social
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition to the Spirit Talkers to attempt to trade for assistance

Yeeeeessss~ Let us celebrate for all eternity our great, Sacred Forest~ All shall know that the Lands of Crow belong to us and we are it's keepers.

Also
Academia Nut said:
(With current territorial control, gain +2 Economy immediately,
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Next turn, we set up a Settlement, and reap the incoming Economy!
 
Malevolo said:
If people read a little about the Punic Wars, they would know that mine is the sound strategy.
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It is, I would consider it to be the best possible move on a military standpoint too. Take away his ability to raid and he either has to give up (And he can't, not with a martially focused culture that he's built on always winning), or he has to fight us in our home ground, where we will fucking eat him and turn his army to mulch.

But our Traits don't support it.

The next best move is forting up. We can probably afford a single econ hit as long as we go max econ afterwards, and that's the move that completely fucks his ability to hurt us.
 
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