[X] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Economy
Snails don't cost enough. if you're going with "Attempt to take control", go with Saltern. It'll soak up the excess resources and let us not spill over into martial.
? At the moment it seems like the "grab land" vote wins, and that already costs stability (2+). If we lose further stability, and get the martial from the land grab, won't that produce problems?
It would require us to be pretty unlucky in two separate dice rolls, both of which would benefit from heroic stats, and a heroic Diplo leader should be able to make most problems manageable and keep us from getting in too much trouble even if the worst does happen.
Pretty much, the rewards vastly outweigh the costs, even in the worsts case scenario.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Boats] Portability
We're at 14 martial already. We've always crushed them boat to boat. We don't NEED any more martial to crush them on land. We have iron, we have way more manpower, and we aren't on fire (which apparently they are). Martial overflow has been shown to be very bad and very hard to drain away. Don't get more martial!
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Look, if we're going to go full trade war, we should make sure we can better exploit the rivers. Plus, it lets us take advantage of our canals in lieu of better roads for now, makes our eventual expansion into the lowlands easier, and might even lead to more innovations due to boats suddenly being practical for most trade routes.
We're at 14 martial already. We've always crushed them boat to boat. We don't NEED any more martial to crush them on land. We have iron, we have way more manpower, and we aren't on fire (which apparently they are). Martial overflow has been shown to be very bad and very hard to drain away. Don't get more martial!
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Salt Gift
These are the only votes I care about. We have iron, we have red martial which with the economy incoming is going to push it even further red, so make use of it and go conquering. The Hathatyn notably live in a similar terrain, and are also on a river system which provides incredible bonuses.
For the boats I've gone with portability, as it should generate a new type of boat that we're capable of using more extensively on rivers. And given that the three areas of expansion and conflict zones all have river systems, they can be of enormous use with the easing of movement of units and logistics given how fast you can travel on them compared to land. They'll help with the war with Hathayn if it starts, they'll help on the defense against the nomads, and should we get an opportunity they'll help with the lowlands.
For the infrastructure action I've gone with salt gift. The reasons for this are; we have a diplomatic hero meaning the gains are increased even further, and the Dead Priests have been in a golden age for 5+ turns now and they have other technologies that we don't, and finally that they have a social value where receiving gifts is highly valued and demands a higher value gift back towards the giver.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
That might not even bleed off martial! Our Marches have been kicking them up one side of the street and down the other. We would too. If we're unlucky, fighting nomads will increase our martial EVEN MORE. That can happen.
Also, hey, which is better for going full borg rn? Snails or Salt? I've really craved Snails for a while but we have a huge advantage in Salt that we should exploit as much as possible.
Those snails depend on us for survival. I wonder if they've been domesticated and grown bigger because of it? Is such a thing even possible though?
What to do about the Hathatyn?
This choice is basically a decision either take refugees, which we normally do, or capitalize on the Hathatyn's issues and expand south and west into their hulls and forests, whcih is something we've wanted to do for a while. It is also technically not a conquering move. The issue, however, is that our martial will be absolutely through the fucking roof. The important thing to remember here, is we really don't need the Econ. What we are looking at here is a choice of whether or not to take territory.
[] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
(Our usual schtick. Take in sad people, make them happy in exchange for work.)
[] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
(Our usual schtick, just bigger. This is not favorable as it will give us another 2 points of martial with no outlet.)
[] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
(Straight up expansion. They Hathatyn are, apparently, falling apart at the seams. This is a chance to expand south and west along the sea and take over more hills and forests. A few things to note about the Hathatyn. They are fairly similar to our culture, just less good. They havent had the time or the inclination to do what we have done. They do however, apparently worship nature and are careful farmers. If I had to guess, they might be the people we had the choice of attacking in our very first update. Hopefully, they declare war on us so that we can bleed off martial. Otherwise I don't know what the fuck we are going to do besides bud off a March. We can also afford the stability.)
Should the king intervene?
This is another admin choice and is a pretty important one.
Simplest? Lumping, definitely lumping. Least likely to cause problems? Hmmm... close off both practices, although that is probably the most complex, most likely to cause short term problems, and may have the possibility of straight up not working.
[] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
(Splits occupations into very minute chunks. IE, copper workers, iron workers, bronze workers, etc. This is nice for specifically addressing very intricate issues for a specific profession, however, as we saw in the update is is an easy way to hide corruption and vote manipulation. All the metalworking professions can vote in a huge block, where everyone else is shut out.)
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
(Lumps occupations together into general professions. IE, metalworkers, potters, textiles, jewelers. This is nice for reducing administrative headache as it is an option that is easier to manage. Instead of a dozen metalworking professions all clamoring for attention, you have one overarching group. This can lead to some issues in that minor facets of a profession, such as say, goldsmiths, might not be listened to all that well. Can cause corruption as it 'hides' some of the administration from the king and council.) EDIT: According to AN, this is the simplest.
[] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
(Closes off both practices but doesn't really seem to give a solution.)
[] [Law] Leave things be
(Keep calm and carry on as is. This defers the decision for later.)
Boat construction
Oh shit! Another boat development! First things first, all of these are good in one way or another and I straight up do not think any of them is better than any other.
[] [Boats] Speed
(Fast boats are spectactular for ferrying messengers/messages/people quickly around our growing Kingdom. Personally, this should do a lot to help fix our growing communication issues.)
[] [Boats] Size
(Bigger boats carry more. This goes for trade goods, troops, and people. This would help with our further trade and possibly help homogenize our Kingdom as people can move around more readily.)
[] [Boats] Portability
(Edit: From later arguments and info, this basically amounts to the ability to sail up river systems. This is extraordinarily useful for us in a communication sense, as our civilization is built on the backs of three major rivers.)
[] [Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)
(We do not need more econ or econ expansion at the moment. We are overflowing with econ as it is. Remember, we get another econ expansion next turn from the true city, and some from our choices this turn.)
Pick an option
We are so fucking good that while everything else is falling apart we can do MORE.
[] [Infra] Main Salt Gift
(We're great yo. I have a feeling this would actually incite people to attack us. Maybe good to bleed off martial, but I don't want to do this if we take the option to annex Hathatyn territory.)
[] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
(Dominate that salt. This would bleed off 4 econ. This is probably the best thing to do here regardless. It is a necessary thing, as we want that dominance, and we need to bleed off econ anyway.)
[] [Infra] Main Vineyard
(This will also bleed off some econ in exchange for a lot of diplomacy. This will help us towards dominance in this trade good. Will also reduce the number of expand econ slots.)
[] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
(Bleed off econ in exchange for diplomacy. This will help us towards dominance in this trade good. There is also the potential for innovation here as well. Past uses of this got us the saltern and watchtowers.)
[] [Infra] Main Expand Economy
(We do not need more of this. Hell fucking no. We have waaaay more than enough econ.)
So, personally, I think we should take that expansion and deal with the martial overflow as it comes.
I'm in favor of lumping as it reduces our overall administrative headache, and generally gets the job done.
I'm in favor of speed, as it will help keep our empire in communication with all of its parts. At the same time, size is definitely a consideration as being able to move large amounts will reduce whatever wealth disparity there is in the north and help us move people around. I think I'm going with Size here.
We need that saltern for salt dominance and to bleed off all this goddamn econ.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Switching vote to head off the idiotic portability vote.
Which would prevent us from making a trading post. Since we'd be at 3/3 Periphery, and we couldn't absorb any because we'd just have too much martial again.
It was a trait evolution in exchange for -5 diplomacy. That's a pretty good deal in the end, if not for the fact that we really wanted the old trait that was eaten during the evolution.
Alternatively it was a free march to start taking over the lowlands.
Honestly, I don't find portability appealing in the slightest, because we have had little problem in navigating the rivers so far. Our problems have been with transporting or communicating with our farflung areas. Speed will reduce the time needed to communicate with our marches, while size will help us with logistics in getting stuff/people to our marches.
Portability seems like it would help our internal trade the most, as well as be useful in dealing with Hathytyn, neither of which I feel is that urgent compared to our long term problems with the north.
Also, hey, which is better for going full borg rn? Snails or Salt? I've really craved Snails for a while but we have a huge advantage in Salt that we should exploit as much as possible.
Those snails depend on us for survival. I wonder if they've been domesticated and grown bigger because of it? Is such a thing even possible though?
That is the idea. All I can consider is my cat being murdered or something feels super fucking bad man.
And also I'm putting 'cute animals' as a point in favor of doing Snail Cultivation because that means we have more snails and snails are great.
Growing bigger should be possible if we've semi-domesticated them.
Not sure what is good for "going full Borg" out of Saltern or Snails. Portable boats raises a good point because that way lies Viking Longships which are good for going up rivers.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Adhoc vote count started by MTB on Jun 4, 2017 at 5:35 AM, finished with 47330 posts and 100 votes.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
Honestly, I don't find portability appealing in the slightest, because we have had little problem in navigating the rivers so far. Our problems have been with transporting or communicating with our farflung areas. Speed will reduce the time needed to communicate with our marches, while size will help us with logistics in getting stuff/people to our marches.
Portability seems like it would help our internal trade the most, as well as be useful in dealing with Hathytyn, neither of which I feel is that urgent compared to our long term problems with the north.
